Tropheus duboisi

[TaffyFish]

I've just picked up 3 adult tropheus duboisi and housed them in a species tank of approx 34 US gallons (33x14x17")

I had build three separate rock piles with no shared rocks but the dominant fish is still keeping the other 2 in the top corner of the tank, not allowing them anywhere near any of the 3 caves. All 3 fish are very similar in size so it would be difficult to create a cave that the 2 "smaller" duboisi could escape to.

The previous owner reckons he's had more than one set of eggs already, so there must be a mix of sexes, hopefully 1m 2f - but is this tank just too small for breeding these guys?
....or will the male let a female down when it's ready to spawn?

 

[SoulFish]

tropheus need a minimum of a 75 gallon tank and a min group of 12, id work on fixing their tank fast or selling them

 

[TaffyFish]

Well a 75 gallon and another 9 fish are both out of the question so that's it, sell them?

I'm probably making a mistake but what the hell, I'll make my mistakes with fish that were going to be disposed of anyway.

I switched the two brutalised duboisi (Bush and Blaire) to my 55 gallon Tanganyika tank and moved an adult julie (Chip, another tank bully) back into the 34 gallon with Saddam. After a few hours, Saddam and Chip are still a bit reluctant to explore but Bush and Blaire are getting along famously at either end of the 55 gallon. I think they're getting intimate and so do the syno. multipunctatus who wont leave them alone - perhaps sensing a spawning to interfere with?

You see the optimism of inexperience?

 

[SoulFish]

well tropheus are notorius for bloat, and will bloat up even under minimal stress or any variation or too much food, this could prove to cause another problem

 

[wayne at home]

Frankly I've got duboisi now and I treat them like mbuna. How big are these adults, are they tank bred and where did you get them.
Think of them as being like the discus of Africans, with just as many fairy stories around their keeping. Wild caught and F1s are much more agressive than those that have been farmed for a few generations, but wild caught are usually pretty small - I've seen adults only 5 cms long because food availability in the wild is so poor. Mine live in a tank not larger than yours with some lab. caerulas, I got them at auction a year ago and I've found them much easier than I expected. I keep a group of 4 that hae always been together.
Rearrange the rock piles so the go all the way to the surface - my tank is VERY rocky, with lots of opportunity to get out of sight. Put in some yellow labs or small aulonacara to 'dither,
I feed mine abou 80 % spirulina flake, with some veggies and other stufffor variety. No bloat as yet. Get hardness, pH up but do not ever use NaCl salt as this appears to be linked to bloat too.
In short - treat like Mbuna - but 3 fish in a tank is too few.

 

[SoulFish]

umm mebe you made a mistake but, aulonocara to dither? peacocks are much much much more peaceful and much much much less active then tropheus and most mbunas, they will be ripped apart with tropheus and most mbunas, dithers are to take aggression away from other fish, they are supposed to be tough and fast, like danios, not slow and fragile like peacocks

 

[TaffyFish]

the previous owner had kept them with 4 big malawis, 2 full grown syno decorus, a couple of smaller synos, 3 frontosas and various generations of convicts.....it was like a war zone but of all the fish the tropheus and decorus were in the best condition, the fins on the frontosas were a real mess. If nothing else this taught me some respect for the way these tropheus must be able to handle themselves and whilst I will watch the diet carefully they must be used to a pretty mixed diet already.

Interestingly, Baensch advises to keep them singly or in pairs which is exactly where I am now. Bush and Blair continue to thrive in the Tang community whilst Saddam is getting more and more comfortable with just an adult julie for company. Plenty of hiding places in both tanks....

 

[wayne at home]

OK, thinking about it today the aulonacara would be hassle because they probably wouldn't work too well on the diet I feed my duboisi, and ditto I think fronts would really struggle. Plus fronts are too sluggish, though I only kept aulonacara for a little while I found them pretty active and fast. What I guess I mean is that you need to have enough fish in there to break up aggression - for me that means a mix of tropheus and electric yellows.
I don't think repeatedly tank bred duboisi are anything like as tricky as wilds, F1's and reputedly moorii. The parallels with discus are huge. Equally great fish - my favourite cichlid.
These things are farmed in FLorida , what are the water conditions on the farms soulfish - rumour has it acidic!

 

[SoulFish]

dont know, it probably varies alot by farms, but they are much more susceptible to bloat in imperfect water conditions

 

[TaffyFish]

so far so good, feeding little and often.
Last night the 2 tropheus in the Tang tank decided to go head to head, or rather mouth to mouth, they were strikingly marked up and it was some sight to see. After quite a battle, finally one relented and ran away to a cave leaving the other to dominate the tank.
Am I right to assume these two must be the same sex if they have fought like this or is it just as likely between the sexes? Is there a reliable way to tell them apart? Their pelvic fins look about the same length.

 

[wayne at home]

What else is in the tank? This sort of scrap means nothing at this point

 

[TaffyFish]

The adult pair of duboisi are in a tank with:-
6 cyprichromis leptosoma
4 julidochromis transcriptus
6 neolamprologus leleupi longior
3 synodontis multipunctactus
1 synodontis petricola
Aside from a couple of cyps and the petricola all are juveniles.

I have one further adult duboisi in a separate tank with an adult julie. I have no idea about the origin of the duboisi having recently obtained them from a guy who was clearing out and giving up the hobby. I would appreciate any help on how to sex them.

 

[wayne]

You may have problems with feeding - the tropheus need a much higher percentage of vegetable mater to snack on else they're likely to 'bung up' - this is one time you want a tank with a good algal growth - believe me, these guys do miracles to hair algae. Also their activity level will be a bit extreme for the julies and leleupi - these are the reasons these fish are commonly kept with mbuna, not other tangs.
Sexing these by appearance is a mystery to me, when they settle down, behaviour will start to reveal all. How rocky is the tank - do you have rock piles to the surface, 1/2 way.....?

 

[TaffyFish]

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6070

rocks about halfway, plenty of caves and the submissive duboisi likes to hid behind the fake trunk on the left hiding the filter intake.

I am feeding a mix of Nutrafin Tropical flake, Hikari cichlid pellet (baby size crushed smaller) and Hikari Tropical micro pellets. This is probably higher in protein than ideal but is the diet they are used to from previous tank.
I also drop in Hikari Sinking pellets for the synos one night in three, after lights out, so they might grab some of that too.

The tank is new and only showing first signs of brown algae on the sides and decor.

the julies seem completely unphased by the duboisi, synos and leleupi, all of which are more active. only the duboisi can enter the alpha julie's cave without being chased away.

 

[wayne]

Ah, now that's a good looking pile of rocks, though I prefer not to mix and match colours, but you're on the right track for cave structure and so on. Much more substrate than mine though - I pulled mine out after the tropheus trashed all the plants except the real sturdys.
Don't you have any stuff from other tanks with algae growing that you can put in for the tropheus to browse on - they very much appreciate it, and I regularly rotate stuff through for hair algae removel.
If the chasing behaviour doesn't settle to acceptibility you may have to get more (discus style)