uh oh... mistakes and questions (long)

[joyfulmama]

After reading through quite a bit of the board I am realizing I have made several classic beginner mistakes, so now I need help trying to keep our one poor fish from dying.

Got a 2 gallon mini-tank as a starter for my 5 yr old.  Had no clue the tank needed to be conditioned before the fish were added, until I got the tank.  The conditioned water had been in the tank w/ filter running (just air stone really) for about 36 hours when the fish (1 male guppy) was added.  Hadn't even heard about fishless cycling until tonight while reading this board.  <sigh>

Anyway, there are a bunch of things that concern me.

1) The fish is doing some intense swimming vertically.  Wondering if this is sort of shimmying and a sign of stress?

2) The tank is so small that the light (which is on from about 8am to 5pm) is changing the temp of the water from 68ish in the morning to 76ish by the evening.  I'm betting this isn't good.  Should we just leave the light off?

3) The air pump is soooo loud.  Is it foolish to consider finding something quieter for a tank this size and better to just go to a 10 gallon if we're going to do this fish thing?

4) I had read that it is normal for a tank to get a bit cloudy as it cycles.  True?  We are on day 8 of the tank running and roughly day 7 of the fish being in the tank.  The water is a tiny bit cloudy.

5) I know I should change 20% of the water every 2 weeks.  Do I need to change it while it is cycling or should I wait?  And should I actually be changing more frequently?

6) Have a gravel vacuum but read something about not vacuuming while cycling.  Thoughts on this?  There is definitely food on the bottom... even though we have been really careful not to overfeed, the guppy would bite at a piece, which would pull it under the water and what was left would just go the bottom.  Now we are crushing the flakes smaller so less is sinking to the bottom.

7) Got most stuff at WalMart where the fish guy blew off getting test kits.  Said he never tests his water and has tons of fish and no problems.  Now I'm thinking, "Yeah in established tanks!"  I did get a ph test kit but not the ammonia/nitrite ones.  Had I better do this?

If poor Mr. Guppy Ruppy (as my son named him) survives, is the tank big enough to get him a wife?  And would we be in big trouble (size-wise) if they have babies?  

Thanks!

 

[clothahump]

Hi joyfulmama. I personally would try and re-home the Guppy and start again with as big a tank as you can fit in/afford.
The bigger the tank the easier it is to maintain.
Sounds strange but the larger the volume of water the more stable the conditions.
Go to Articles in the left hand column, there is an article there on cycling your tank which may help.
What sort of filter are you using?
Yes, buy your self a test kit for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.
I should imagine that your guppy will not last very long if it already showing signs of distress.
Large swings in temerature are not good for fish or plants.
If you set up using good filtration you do not need an air pump.
Cloudiness in the tank is probably been caused by the excess food lying around, one guppy will survive on one flake of food every other day.
Yes clean the gravel if you decide to keep the little tank.
If your guy at the LFS has that attitude to fishkeeping I would find another LFS.
Hope this helps you.

 

[JWright]

Agree 100% w/ dattack, buy bigger, fishless cycle, and find a new LFS.

The bigger the tank, the easier it will be. The absolute minumum I would reccomend for a beginner would be a 10, preferably somethig bigger.

HTH,
Josh

 

[ryanp15]

Yes agreed! I would say get the 10 and let it cycle then, if your guppy is still alive move him in. If you do get a 10 you can usually buy a kit with everything you need (light, hood, and filter, and tank) for around $50 or less depending on where you get it.

Last bit of advice as a newbie don't go to wal-mart for fish or their advice. Just becuase they usually just hire people and show them how to dip out the fish and that's all. Once you know what you are doing you can see if your local wal-mart is good or not, mine isn't. Go to a good pet store for your fish. Good luck. We're always here if you need help. ;D *celebratesmiley*

 

[ChazECJr]

Oh does this sound familiar...My 3 yr old daughter just got a one gallon tank for her birthday, and we bought two male guppies for it, knowing nothing about cycling or fish care.  Believe it or not despite overfeeding them, one lasted seven weeks, the other is still alive.  They are fairly hardy fish.

The fish is stressedd by cycling, but he may survive.  It sounds like you may have an air pump driven under gravel filter.  Whatever you do DON'T OVERFEED.  Uneaten food will get drawn under the filter plate at the bottom of the tank and pollute the water.  Feed a SMALL amount once a day.

I wouldn't use the light during the day.  If you use it in the evening, monitor the temp and kill it if it rises a few degrees, temp swings are not very healthy.

Do a partial water change every week.  Get a test kit to monitor ammonia.  If it doesn't come down in a few weeks and you have a UGF, you will probably find uneaten fish flakes trapped under it, (you'll have to dismantle the tank to clean it out.)  If you don't get rid of the uneaten food the ammo may never come down.

When the ammonia does come down consider buying a ghost shrimp.  They are small inexpensive scavengers that will eat a lot of the uneaten food that hits the tank bottom.  A live plant sometimes helps, get a low light plant and put the tank near a window that gets INDIRECT sun (otherwise it may overheat!)

And yes, stay away from WALMART when looking to buy fish.

If your guppy survives I think you could get him a wife and keep them in your current tank, but if they have lots of babies you will really need to monitor the water quality, when it goes bad you will probably have to sell/give away some fish to save the others.

Good luck.

 

[Matt Nace]

Went to one of the three wal-marts near me last night. The fish all looked very good(for once) Could it be that this wal-mart actually has a person who knows his stuff?

Saying not to buy from wal-mart or listen to the fish guy because they are ALL bad is a steriotype right? I am sure in the USA there is at least one that has a clue.What if I just last night started working there(I didn't) but what then? I kinda of think I have a clue..and would be offended if you said I didn't.

I will agree up untill last night they always look sick and the fishkeepers advise and practices are not good....but there may be hope.

On the flip side..I still wouldn't buy from any of the wal-marts cause their fish prices are way too high...come on $3 for a bronze cory? $3 for a cherry barb...yeah ok.

I actually would only recommend a setup for a newbie from a LFS or a chain that you can somewhat trust. Wal-marts filter, heaters ect. are junk. It is cheap cause that is what it is. I bought an offbrand canister that works very well from wal-mart a few years ago , but they no longer carry that brand name or the canister.

sorry that was off the topic.

 

[ryanp15]

You missed my point here. I didn't mean they were all bad but for someone who is new and doesn't know what they're doing wal-mart is not the place to trust. I had a friend who worked at wal-mart in the fish department and he knew what he was doing and kept the tanks looking nice but let me tell you they wouldn't give him the resources he needed and the only time i've ever seen the fish look good is when they first get shipped in.

maybe you do have one of those rare wal-marts with someone who know what they're doing but I was just saying as a newbie this person shouldn't put they're trust in wal-mart hands go to a lfs. Hope that cleared things up. ;D

That kinda funny you mentioned the canister the other day I went to a walmart and they had a canister, it was a regent but it looked pretty nice. But that was in another town and I didn't have $90 to spend on one. If I didn't I would probably get something with a better track record. ;D

 

[Matt Nace]

[quote author=ryanp14 link=board=beginner&num=1009859008&start=0#3 date=01/01/02 at 10:21:00]
Last bit of advice don't ever listen to a wal-mart fish department guy! Or buy their fish! They totally abuse them and don't know what they're doing there. Go to a good pet store for your fish.
[/quote]

I think you mistyped your point Ryan.

To someone new to the board ..and fish..that is a strong statement. But...

Your last post clearly shows what you meant....so point taken.

 

[ryanp15]

Well let me go and refrase that then. ;D

 

[Cillana]

The Regent filters that they sell at Walmart are good. I've been using them for 5 years with no problems. No that I have plants they aren't good for those tanks because you can't take the carbon out of the filter cartridge with out destroying it. But I still use them with the carbon on my fry grow out tanks that only have a few crypts and vals in pots and only 1.5 watts per gallon that I don't worry about fertilizing. And they would be great for tanks with plastic plants or rockscapes.

 

[dattack]

[quote author=JWright link=board=beginner&num=1009859008&start=0#2 date=01/01/02 at 08:42:50]
Agree 100% w/ dattack, buy bigger, fishless cycle, and find a new LFS.

The bigger the tank, the easier it will be. The absolute minumum I would reccomend for a beginner would be a 10, preferably somethig bigger.

HTH,
Josh
[/quote]

Thanks,
I didn't even say a word.  ;D *crazysmiley*

 

[ryanp15]

Yeah I use a Regent 20-40 on my 10 gallon convict tank. It does a great job. I also have a small one on my 29 with another kind so I have good filtration there. My tanks are always clean. They only have 1 filter pad but it's okay. Actually you can dump out the carbon by cutting off the top of the filter and dumping it out. I've done it. ;D

 

[JWright]

Drat...I always get you two mixed up...I have no idea why... ;D

Josh

 

[ChazECJr]

I had high ammonia levels two weeks ago and found I had uneaten flakes under my UGF.  Ammo was 3-4 ppm!  I cleaned it out, did a 50% water change and added some gravel from what appeared to be a healthy tank at Petsmart.  A week later I did a 25% water change. Last night the readings were:

ammo:   1 ppm
nitrite:   0 ppm
nitrate: 20 ppm

I think the handful of "seeded" gravel I added to my very small tank may have resulted in a kind of "express" cycling.  The remaining guppy and ghost shrimp in the tank seem active and healthy.

If your guppy is still alive in your 2 gallon, go to the store you got him and ask for a handful of gravel from the tank he was in, do a 50% water change, remove any uneaten food from your gravel and add the store's gravel.  I'm hoping your guppy will be feeling better soon after this, it seemed to work for me.

Good luck!

Charlie

 

[joyfulmama]

Thanks so much for all the helpful suggestions. The guppy seems to be doing quite well despite us. We have lots of uneaten food under the gravel.  

I bought a mini gravel vacuum, but it still doesn't seem small enough.  It was really tough to get the siphon started because the tank is so little.  And I just can't get much of the food out without sucking too much water out at once.  How often can I replace the water (I aimed for roughly 20%)?  Is it a problem that the guppy eats the old food stirred up?

We don't have the space for a 10G right now (the biggest we could go), but are doing some rearranging.  For now the guppy has to stay in the 2G tank so I want to make his life as pleasant as possible.

We are leaving the light off.  Oh, and all I have read is adamant about keeping anything that has touched soap out of the water, but what about my hands?

Lastly, would it be helpful to get a ghost shrimp now to get the old food under control, or is it too soon?

As for WalMart, instinct told me not to get the fish there.  I got all the equipment there though.  The fish and tanks actually looked in pretty good shape, but as a newbie I may not have noticed important things.

Thanks again!!

 

[ChazECJr]

If the gravel vac is too big, try something like a turkey baster.

Also if you can stir flakes out of the gravel perhaps you could remove them with a net before they settle back down.

Your hands in the tank should be fine, after you wash and rinse any soap off them.

Spend about $5 for an ammonia test kit.  Don't add the ghost shrimp til the ammo is down around 1 ppm or less.  I added two ghost shrimp when my ammo was high and one was dead within days.  It's a miracle the other one is somehow still alive.

Keep us posted!