Undergravel vs deepbed tanks

[gololf]

Hi all,

I am going to start up a freash water tank for achange and was wondering if you could give me some advise on the type of tank to create.

I have a variety of tanks in the shed..lol
10gal
20gal tall
30gal tall
90 gal soon to be avail. (gotta get rid of the pacu given to me with the tank))

I was wondering what type of system is the best for a natural system.
I thought of an undergravel ( not really natural tho..lol) but was wondering if
it should be straight flow of reverse to reduce the ditrious).
My other thought is to make a deep sandbed as I have in my Marine
tanks...what do you think?
I also would like to use plants and not have to use external filter systems if I
can get away with that.
What fish would be best to start with?

thanks,
FLBob *BOUNCINGS

 

[Fish Friend]

You need to use the biggest you can get.. so use the 90 gallon... with the filters you are best off using big external filters like a canister filter... and an undergravel is not a good idea IMO because its a big tank and youll be siphoning a hell of a lot of gravel lol so like i said.. go for the biggest you can get... and use a canister filter
And starting off with your fish.. you have to let it cycle first.. so a tank that big put a few platys in there.. or zebra danios to start the cycle off and then maybe you could have a stunning community planted aquarium... it would be good to see some pics ????

 

[Lotus]

I think what you're looking for is the method Diana Walstad uses. She wrote a book called The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium that has a system similar to the one you describe (little or no filtration, low maintenance). You might want to do an Internet search on it to decide if it's the right type of tank for you.

 

[Fish Friend]

I have never heard about that person.. or her books... i am confused

 

[gololf]

Ahhh...your right !!
I found it on the Barnes & Noble site

Ecology of the Planted Aquarium: A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquarist
Diana L. Walstad
$34.95

Also :
Aquarium Designs Inspired by Nature
Peter Hiscock
$27.95

 

[gololf]

Deep sand beds

Hi again,

Now...about those deep sand beds....do they work in fresh water tanks like they do in Salt tanks?

How deep does the sand have to be for planting?

Do you make different layers on the bottom made of different mediums, ie:gravel/sand/mud?


Thanks,
FLBob

 

[ram man]

i will never use a ugf! when i cleaned mine out it smell so bad. i started gaging!

 

[NoDeltaH2O]

She is an excellent aquarist, and even approved of my No Water Change (NWC) system. Her forum can be found here http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums

The method is called "El Natural", and basically consists of lightly stocked, moderately to densely planted aquariums wioth natural soil'gravel substrate, and low light, with no CO2 injected. Plants grow slowly, consuming fish waste. Several people on that forum have used the method with great success, having aquariums with NO FILTRATION other than the plants themselves (no external filters, no HOBs, no canisters, nada)

Check out her forum, especialy the El Natural portion.

 

[NoDeltaH2O]

Here is an interesting thread about not doing water changes at all for 2 years: http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4686048124/m/5661091751

 

[Fish Friend]

Hey NoD... i clicked on that link and it said i have to log in before i can view it

 

[NoDeltaH2O]

sorry about that. I guess you do have to be a member to view those threads in her forum. Let me cut and past the jist of it here for you all:

a member posed the question:

Hi, I've got a 3 feet tank with a low tech set up out in my porch and its doing great, no CO2 or fertilisation, no water change, just top up water once a week. plants are doing well with some floating plants and some ceratophyllum demersum, with some mosses tied to driftwood along with all the anubias, java ferns and cryptocoryne. I haven't done a water change in more than 6 months already, but fishes are still fine. I'm just wondering, whats the longest period without a water change that anyone has experienced before on a low tech setup?

Diane Walstad replied:

A friend of mine set up an experimental tank, and it went for 2 years with no water changes.

The only reason I can see to change the water is if the salt concentration, as measured by conductivity or nitrate levels, gets too high for the plants.

Plants take up NaCl and other salts, so how long depends on plant growth, plant removal, filter cleaning, etc. Every tank is different.

Clean water is a precious resource that should not be wasted. I urge hobbyists to change water when it clearly benefits fish and plants... not according to some arbitrary time table or advice based from those who keep unplanted tanks.

Diana Walstad

Then another member chimed in:

I ran a No Water Change tank for a little over 7 months with no problems. The only thing I noticed was a slight rise in the KH (Carbonate hardness) of my tank water, as I was only topping off for evaporated water. My KH went from 13 to 15 in the 7 months. As there is a direct relationship between pH, KH, and CO2 levels, this did affect the pH, but only ever so slightly, and the effect was very slow. As long as the plant growth is adequate to keep nitrates low, and the salts are consumed, water changes are not as crucial. Some plants can perform biogenic decalcification, thus taking care of the salt buildup issue one may face.

 

[Fish Friend]

wow thats pretty fascinating !!! i thought theyd be dead by the time 7 monts go past !

 

[longtyme68]

ram man, what is a ugf?

 

[Seleya]

undergravel filter They have their proponents and they ~do~ work, but I think most aquarists now find the other current options much better, easier to maintain and more practical - especially if they opt for planted tanks or cichlids.

 

[longtyme68]

I would think also that an undergravel filter would be a pain to clean and probably soaks up all the odors in the water. Whereas a tank mounted filter is easier to change and clean.