VERY high Ammonia levels...

[Beno78]

Hi,

I have set up a new tank around 7 weeks ago...and populated with a few fish early on to allow the tank to cycle. Which all seemed to go quite well.

But the last week or so, I have added a few more fish to the tank, and it seems to have made the water go quite cloudy...especially looking in from the long ide of the tank. I havent lost any fish for 3 or 4 weeks. I did lose 2 or 3 Neons early in the cycle process, but nothing really since. I have done regular water changes etc etc. It is a 250 litre tank, and has around 20 - 25 small fish.

I did an ammonia test last night, and freaked a little bit, as its around 6-7. I also did a nitrite test, and it is at 0. My concern is that the cycling process is not working as it should? I understood that the ammonia should be converted to Nitrite, then Nitrate. But this doesnt seem to be happening...

Any advice is much appreciated!

 

[Fishmonger70]

Well that's about 66 gallons. How many fish did you put in your tank at one time. You said you have about 20 - 25 fish. I hope you didn't put them all in at once. If you did, that is your problem. Your bio load is to high. You put too many fish in too soon.

 

[Beno78]

I started with around 10 Neons...then added 3 or 4 more fish at around 2 weeks...after losing 2 Tetras. Then in weeks 5, 6 and 7, I added a 2 - 3 fish a week? My local aquarium advised that this would be ok?? So hopefully it was the right advice!

Is there anything I can do, besides water changes...to drop the ammonia levels?? Ive heard that playing with chemical additives can do more harm then good!

 

[Fishmonger70]

What types of fish are in there , other than the neons? At this point in time all I can recommend is to do the water changes and hope that you get ahead of the problem

 

[Beno78]

There are a couple of Rainbow Sharks, 4 or 5 Black Widow Tetras, two Salt n Pepper Catfish, 8 or 9 tetras, and 4 or 5 guppys. Its an odd mix at the moment...as Im not too sure on what I want to keep. I have another smaller tank, that I am planning on setting up once I have decided what to keep in the large tank...

Do certain species have higher ammonia levels??

 

[blue_ram]

There are a couple of Rainbow Sharks, 4 or 5 Black Widow Tetras, two Salt n Pepper Catfish, 8 or 9 tetras, and 4 or 5 guppys. Its an odd mix at the moment...as Im not too sure on what I want to keep. I have another smaller tank, that I am planning on setting up once I have decided what to keep in the large tank...

Do certain species have higher ammonia levels??

Test your tap water. Are you treating the tap water before you add it into the tank? What type of water conditioner do you use? What type of test are you using, eg.. strips or liquid?

Are the fish hugging the bottom breathing heavily?

How much are you feeding them? Is there a dead fish iin the tank hidden somewhere?

Water changes alone will not remove that much ammonia, but the fish would be dead at that level so the readings are most likely being set off by something else?

I woudl take a filter bag and put some zeolite (ammo-chips) in it and place it in the tank to absorb the excess ammonia just to be sure. If possible put it in the filter (eg for aqua clear type filters).

 

[Beno78]

I am using tap water, and treating it before I add to the tank, with a "good" conditioner, as recommended by my fish shop...

Fish dont seem to be acting strangely...the are swimming as normal, top and bottom of the tank. None of them appear to be gasping, which Ive been told is a sign of ammonia burns. I am using liquid tests, and its showing as very high...6 - 7.

I am feeding them as Tetra Tropical Flakes, and using the recommended amounts. They say 3 times a day, but I am doing twice as they say on the packaging, but the midday feed I tend to give a LOT less then they say to...as it seems a lot of food. They eat the food within a minute, and doesnt seem to be a lot left over.

I cant see a dead fish anywhere in the tank, but I will have a thorough look tonight to make sure its not hidden somewhere...

I figured I would be seeing dead fish also, or at least some strange behavior. But they seem fine. Its just the reading is WAY high.

I do not have an external filter, it is an undergravel filter. Is it worth maybe installing a smaller externel filter also?? Will this help with levels of the nasty stuff in the tank?

Thanks heaps for your help so far! Im having a ball with the new tank, and very interested in learning as much as I can!

 

[Fishmonger70]

For starters, cut feeding down to once a day. Feediung them more than once a day can be one of your problems. I generally feed mine in the evening. If you go a day without feeding them it's not a big deal. Don't overfeed them. If the food is settling down on the bottom of the tank you are feeding them too much. Rotate what you feed them. I will feed mine flake food one night, frozen brine shrimp another night, bloodworms another night and I keep rotating through those food types.

 

[FroggyFox]

You should have let the tank finish cycling before adding more fish...two weeks is no where near enough...but what's done is done.

You need to do a big water change to lower your ammonia level. With it that high i'd expect you will start seeing nitrites soon...but your fish are going to start feeling the effects of the high ammonia if you don't get it down...so instead of trying to put anything in the tank to take care of it, you need to just do some old fashioned water changes. Same thing with when the nitrites start rising.

 

[iapetus]

I started with around 10 Neons...then added 3 or 4 more fish at around 2 weeks...after losing 2 Tetras. Then in weeks 5, 6 and 7, I added a 2 - 3 fish a week? My local aquarium advised that this would be ok?? So hopefully it was the right advice!

Is there anything I can do, besides water changes...to drop the ammonia levels?? Ive heard that playing with chemical additives can do more harm then good!

Ugh. Neons? They're not the best fish if you're going to do a fish-in cycle. They're notoriously fragile fish. But, as FroggyFox said, what's done is done; and, if they're mostly still alive, that suggests that you've been doing well.

As far as getting the ammonia levels down, the best thing to do is to get on a regimen of frequent water changes. You're correct in not wanting to add too many chemicals to remove the ammonia.

You need to do a big water change to lower your ammonia level. With it that high i'd expect you will start seeing nitrates soon...but your fish are going to start feeling the effects of the high ammonia if you don't get it down...so instead of trying to put anything in the tank to take care of it, you need to just do some old fashioned water changes. Same thing with when the nitrites start rising.

Ah, this brings up a good point. Beno, what are your levels of nitrites and nitrates? What have they been while all this has been going on? If you can tell us this, we'll have some idea as to where your tank is with regards to establishing its nitrifying bacteria.

For starters, cut feeding down to once a day. Feediung them more than once a day can be one of your problems. I generally feed mine in the evening. If you go a day without feeding them it's not a big deal. Don't overfeed them. If the food is settling down on the bottom of the tank you are feeding them too much. Rotate what you feed them. I will feed mine flake food one night, frozen brine shrimp another night, bloodworms another night and I keep rotating through those food types.

This is particularly important while your tank is still cycling. You can feed them a couple of times per day (or more smaller feedings) after the tank has properly cycled.

 

[roark fishies]

I would say don't feed them at all for about 2 days so they'll quit producing as much waste. Do a 50% water change now and then probably another tomorrow. Then test the water and keep doing changes as needed to keep the ammonia as low as possible. That's what I would do.

And yes, I think a HOB (hang on back filter) would be a great addition to your tank. You wouldn't even need the Undergravel filter if you got a HOB. Keep it only if you want.

 

[unwritten law]

The cloudiness that occurs when cycling can just be the bacteria growing at a very high rate. This happened to me and went away within a few days with water changes. Although this happened to me during the first week of doing a fish-in cycling, not week 5 or whatever your into. It probably has to do with the increase of fish and ammonia and the bacteria colonies are just growing like crazy, which would be a good thing... hopefully.

 

[blue_ram]

I am using tap water, and treating it before I add to the tank, with a "good" conditioner, as recommended by my fish shop...

Fish dont seem to be acting strangely...the are swimming as normal, top and bottom of the tank. None of them appear to be gasping, which Ive been told is a sign of ammonia burns. I am using liquid tests, and its showing as very high...6 - 7.

I am feeding them as Tetra Tropical Flakes, and using the recommended amounts. They say 3 times a day, but I am doing twice as they say on the packaging, but the midday feed I tend to give a LOT less then they say to...as it seems a lot of food. They eat the food within a minute, and doesnt seem to be a lot left over.

I cant see a dead fish anywhere in the tank, but I will have a thorough look tonight to make sure its not hidden somewhere...

I figured I would be seeing dead fish also, or at least some strange behavior. But they seem fine. Its just the reading is WAY high.

I do not have an external filter, it is an undergravel filter. Is it worth maybe installing a smaller externel filter also?? Will this help with levels of the nasty stuff in the tank?

Thanks heaps for your help so far! Im having a ball with the new tank, and very interested in learning as much as I can!

Some water conditioners contain substances that neutralize the ammonia and make it harmless. These same substances also cause ammonia readings to be incorrect. Are Nitrites showing? Are Nitrates showing?

Since the fish are doing well, I woudl tend to believe it is the water conditioner throwing false readings. What brand of conditioner? Daily water changes will eventually remove the amminia or substance causing the false reading.

 

[MissFishy]

First of all, fish really don't need to be fed three times a day or even two times a day. I feed all my fish every other day. This drastically cuts back on waste in the water.

As was said above, you really need to do some huge water changes. I would start by taking out 75% of the water, changing it by treating the water BEFORE you add it to the tank. Wait 10 mins then check the ammonia readings, they should be a bit lower, but you'll probably need to repeat the process a couple times to get the ammonia below 1.0 ppm. Are your readings showing any signs of nitrites?

By the way, when you do this, you'll more than likely get a bacteria "bloom". It looks like the water is cloudy. This is caused by bacteria in the water and is a good thing, it will go away within a few days and is nothing to worry about, just keep an eye on the ammonia readings and continue doing water changes whenever they get above 1.0 ppm.

 

[minihorses4ever]

Have you put AMMO LOCK in it recently? I read on here that can cause false, off the wall readings.

 

[blue_ram]

First of all, fish really don't need to be fed three times a day or even two times a day. I feed all my fish every other day. This drastically cuts back on waste in the water.

Most tropical fish eat constantly and require multiple feedings per day.

The composition of the tank is also an important factor. A 55 with a few larger cichlids might need 1 feeding per day, but that same 55 with 40 tetras will need 5 small feedings a day to ensure that all the fish get some food. The tetra tank will also most likely have several bottom feeders which ensures no food gets wasted.

Hungry fish are agressive fish and taking away food agression makes a lot more peace and less stress on the fish.

 

[MissFishy]

Actually, in the wild, fish do not get large meals everyday. This is why they aggressively attack the meals when they do come, it's instinct because they don't know when the next meal will come. By feeding more food, not only does the leftover food get into the filter, etc. But the fish also poop more, further contaminating the tank with waste and decreasing water quality.

Your theory may work for cichlids which are naturally more aggressive, but a tropical tank with fish that have been fed appropriate amounts (and types) of food every other day or so will be absolutely more than fine without being fed multiple times per day.

 

[brian1973]

Most tropical fish eat constantly and require multiple feedings per day.

Hungry fish are agressive fish and taking away food agression makes a lot more peace and less stress on the fish.

I am just going to repeat what missfishy said but add to it.. Most predatory animals be it fish or mammals do not feed every day, that is why when food is present they eat as much as they can, they are hardwired to do this because they do not know when the next meal is coming. We have had previous members over feed fish until they looked like they were going to explode. The packaging on fish food is because they want you to have to buy more. Thinking feeding more will cut back aggression is complete BS IMO and experience(sorry BR ) , unless it is with certain species of african cichlids like missfishy said. Fish will always feed aggressivly when they are hungry and aggressive fish are just aggressive, each fish has it's own personality and just because they are a community fish doesnt mean they cant be aggressive.

Definately reduce your feedings and as was already mention stop feeding all together for a few days until you get your ammonia readings down or figure out whats causing them. Fish can go a week without food without any negative effects especially with how much you have fed them up to this point.

Well I went back and reread through this and noticed your using an UGF, now someone correct me if i am wrong ,my theory is your using this filter thats only real purpose is to suck waste underneath the gravel and it doesnt go anywhere so my theory is it is rotting and causing your ammonia to spike, i would stop using it and buy a HOB filter. Your bottom feeders wont get to clean up exces food because it will get pulled thru befor ethey can get it all eaten causing all that to sit on the bottom of the tank.