what am i doing wrong?

[jessey]

figured i should start a thread, since i've been taking over everyone else's lately...

i put the bio filter media from my sister's 10 gallon tank in my cycling 29 gallon tank this morning, along with my own bio filter (i didn't take mine out, i put them in there together). that was at 7 this morning.. i've read that cycling a tank off of someone else's established tank can happen in as little as 30 minutes, and it's been 8 hours...
before WC, at about 2:00 pm -
ammonia 1.0
nitrites 3.0
nitrates 0.5
some change from yesterday, but not very impressive.
i then performed a 30% WC, and around 3:00, tested the water again. i didn't write anything down and the exact numbers are slipping from my mind now (dumb on my part), but there wasn't much of a change.

i don't mean to be impatient, but i want to make sure i'm not doing something wrong, because i was under the impression that when i got home at 2 i was going to have a cycled tank! what am i missing?

thanks guys

 

[IDunnoWhy]

OK, I've seen people use substrate from other tanks to "seed" new ones, I've seen people use artificial plants and rocks from established tanks to help "seed" new ones, and I've seen people use filter media from established tanks also. Not to mention fishless cycling (but were past that now).

I am not sure about a 30min cycle. I guess it's possible, but I wouldn't see how. Is your sisters tank fully cycled? What are her readings? Is it possible your trying to kick start a tank from another that isn't fully cycled yet either?

I wish I could help more, but I am not a fish "pro" yet myself, I hope others with more experience chime in here for you.

 

[MissFishy]

Usually when I seed a tank from an established tank, there are no readings. The tank should be instantly cycled with established media from another established tank. Of course, it will be a lot harder if you have already allowed the un-cycled tanks readings to get up there (not sure the whole story on this.) If the readings are very high, it is possible the cycled media will just die in the tank if the ammonia or nitrites are too high. At this point, I would do water changes as necessary to maintain a low ammonia/nitrite level. Since you already have nitrate readings, that means that some sort of cycle is happening in your tank. Make sure that you treat the water before adding it to your tank. Chlorinated water can kill tank bacteria and start a new cycle. Monitor water params carefully and possibly add some more filter/rock media from the established tank. Some readings on the "established" tank would probably be helpful and a good idea as well. Hope that helps!

 

[Mahamotorworks]

You arent doing any thing wrong. Because you had some Ammonia and NitrIte in your tank before you added the filter media The bacteria is processing it now. The sign of NitrtAte is a good thing. I would Test the water tonight before bed the tomorrow do a 50% w/c then test and post again. From what you have posted you are one the right track. It takes time for thing to happen.

MAHA

 

[jessey]

thanks for the encouraging words, especially maha i didn't test the water last night - i was going to, and then suddenly i was in my bed falling asleep.

but i did a 40-50% wc this morning... progress is slow.
ammonia = 0.5
nitrite = 3.0
nitrate = 10-20
on the bright side, this is the first time ammonia is under 1.0 ppm! woohoo.. is this my 'nitrite spike'?

i'll do another water change tomorrow or thursday... and i've been feeding just about every day since friday, but feeding lightly (1 sinking tablet and a small pinch of flakes). everything seems to get eaten pretty quickly.

comments, concerns, suggestions?

 

[TLH]

Your ammonia spike was at 1ppm when it was highest.For now just keep monitoring and aslong as it keeps going down don't do anymore water changes other than the weekly 20-25%.

You should hit zeros for ammonia and nitrite in short order now unless the 50% change you did has skewed your results.Continue light feeding until you're sure things are leveling out.

 

[jessey]

well, today's water testing brings good news and bad news.

the bad news first: nitrIte is up to about 5.0 ppm.
the good news: ammonia is at 0 ppm!! woohoo!
nitrAte is approx. 20 ppm.

i am making progress, slowly but surely. i am hoping to be all the way cycled by friday... maybe even sooner.

 

[TLH]

Well that shows you have enough Nitrosomas as your Ammonia is being dealt with.Your Nitrobacter colony is still struggling to keep up though.As your Nitrite is at 5ppm I'd do one more waterchange to bring it down to 3ppm ish.You should be OK then.

 

[jessey]

hrm... the update for today is a bit mind boggling.

i did approximately (does everybody estimate these things?) a 25% W/C... and took my readings about 15 min later. is that long enough to wait?

ammonia 0.25 ppm (this is the baffling part)
nitrite 3.0-5.0 ppm range
nitrate 20 ppm

i also tested my sister's water (i know, it's silly that i hadn't before!)...
ammonia 0 ppm
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 60 ppm *high!*

it's almost as if having the filter media from her tank hasn't been doing much? either way, i took it out of my tank and put it back in hers... her tank has been without it for 3 days, and mine should be fine on its own. (was this a bad idea? should i steal it back?)

 

[tessalion]

Hmmm...i think its prolly better to wait at least an hour after a wc before testing the water, perhaps thats whats causing the apparent spike in ammonia. I think adding your sisters filter media definitely helped, your tank has moved a lot faster in the cycling process than mine did. At this point i was just beginning to see nitrites. You should keep up your water changes since your nitrites are high.

And your sister should do a wc to reduce her nitrates.

 

[Purple]

jesse - what water treatments are you using - eg - what, other than pure water, are you putting into your tank ?

any additives ? - dechlorinator etc ? - and what brand names ?

 

[jessey]

I am using dechlorinator every time I do water changes.. but it's not a big name brand one. Could that be a problem? The dechlor is Animal Planet brand.

 

[MissFishy]

The purpose of doing water changes in the long term is to remove the build up of nitrates. A high reading in an established tank means that the tanks water has not been changed frequently enough. I've never heard of Animal Planet, but a water conditioner should remove chlorine and chloramine. Read the labels to make sure that one does.

 

[jessey]

It does remove chlorine and chloramine. I'm almost out of it, however (no surprise with all the water changes lately), so I'll be running to Petco today... what brand would you suggest? Does it matter?

 

[jessey]

i tested the water this morning... and the ammonia is back down to 0 *twirlysmi phew! i was afraid i was going in the wrong direction...

i also brought a water sample to petco, because i needed to get a refund on the little adf that didn't make it. the guy (who was a manager) tested my water with one of the wardley 5-in-1 strips, which is the same thing i've been using to test nitrite/nitrate (i know they're not as accurate as the test tubes, i'm testing my ammonia w/ a test tube kit..) whew, i know everyone has talked about the stupidity of most lfs workers, but now i got to experience it firsthand.

he told me my nitrites were still high (which i knew). he asked how often i was doing water changes, and told me i shouldn't be doing them more than once a month, if that. then he handed me a bottle of cycle, and told me that it would "replace all the good stuff my water changes took out"... i smiled politely and took it in my hand, and put it back on the shelf as soon as he walked away. *thumbsups

i bought a new water conditioner; it's called AmQuel+. and it came with another product for free.. i just looked at the label but the other one is already slipping my mind, but i think it's another dechlorinator. anyway, AmQuel claims to reduce ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, chlorine, and chloramine. i assume the first three are bs, but as long as it does what it's supposed to in terms of dechlor, that's all i care about.

beside telling me to buy cycle, mr. petco man also told me to top my tank off with distilled water because it would help lower my ph (tampa water is off the charts). any truth to that? should i leave the ph alone?

 

[Purple]

If your Ph is anywhere between 7 and 8 then leave it alone.

The reason I was aking about additives, is that some of them artificially "lock down" ammonia and the like - which can give you a false reading when you test after a water change. Best avoided basically - just stick to the simple stuff that deals with chlorine and chloramine. Anything else should be dealt with by water changes.

Got me suspicious about the new stuff you bought now - lol - oh well, might as well use it now you have it.

Just keep testing and changing as best you can - not all tanks cycle by the book. *thumbsups

 

[jessey]

the old stuff didn't have anything like that, so the 0 ammonia reading should be accurate. do you think i should return the new stuff? i haven't used it yet.

 

[Purple]

Well - this is where it gets interesting - 'cos according to http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/month.200008/msg00583.html - aquamel ....."
A triple-strong dose of Amquel should raise the tds something like about
30-50 ppm, as I recall my earlier measurements of it. By removing the
ammonia from the conductive ion population "

So yes, it is a "lock down" additive. Having said that, it shouldn't affect your cycle from what I can deterine from the rest of that article, so roll with it this time round - but avoid it in the future. (And leave your Ph alone when you're using that stuff - it 'changes" a few things around in your water, so you'd be chasing ghosts).

Fish keeping 'aint rocket science, but there are plenty of ways to endlessly debate the finer point of water chemistry - none of which need apply in your case - although they are present.

Key words there are "need apply"

So - carry on with what you've got going on - and save the complex stuff (like Ph and hardness etc) for when things settle down. No point in making a mountain out of a molehill .......

 

[Grumpy_Marine]

It has been said before, in fish tank keeping you need to buy a big bag of patience as well with other stuff. the LFS dont' tell you that but it is a rule of thumb. Sounds like your tank is starting to cycle, but i would definately suggest that you try and get a little patience in this hobby as it seems like you are constantly running trying to fix everything ever minute of the day. This hobby should be fun not a chore. Setting up is hard but not impossible. If your looking for safe dechlor to use i suggest stress coat, it provides the dechlor stuff needed and also helps with adding fish and existing fish with their protective coating.

Keep up on the w/c don't listen to the LFS once a month yea it can be done but why... keep the fish happy, i notice with mine if i skip a week in w/c they tend to be shy and hide sorta, but when i keep w/c regular weekly they are all around the tank enjoying their home. If possible i also suggest look at petsmart as in my area they are better maintained and staffed than the petco stores. IMO though. Good luck and hope you enjoy your hobby as it should be.

To ease a worry you may have...

i cycled my tank with fish, started with two guppies, two danios, 1 common pletco and four neon tetras....

i still have all the fish except the neons, they got neon tetra disease and passed away.

So if you keep ammonia down your fish will be safe.

 

[jessey]

all righty thanks guys. purple, like you said, i'll use it this time since i already have it home. everything is already under control but nitrites, so i think i should be okay.

grumpy, you're probably right about me needing to chill. i'm just excited to add more fish, that's the main reason i keep trying to "rush" the cycle. i really should just leave it alone, though - and that's very good to hear about your fish. mine all seem to be doing really great.