What is killing my mollies???

[beckyd]

A few months ago, I bought a guppy at Petsmart. I did not quarantine her(NEVER again will I make that mistake). She was a bit listless for about a week and died several days later. She looked a bit ragged, but nothing I could definitely identify.

I have been losing fish ever since. A few guppies, one neon, many adult mollies, and about 80 fry in two different tanks. I moved some fish while the culprit guppy was still here, and was lucky enough to take 'it' along. So I have this going on in two tanks.

There have been a variety of symptoms: two with sores, one with popeye, one with dropsy, but the huge majority have none. No flashing, scales intact, fins normal. They get listless, clamp up a tiny bit and die. Two females have given birth and died within two days with no outward symptoms at all. Both have given birth before. My guppies, neons, and catfish seem fine now. Only mollies have continued dying.

I have not treated either community tank as I cannot figure out what it is. I have removed the sick fish and treated. I have tried triple sulfa, tetracycline, melafix, and Lifeguard- a broad spectrum that treats bacteria, fungus, viral, and parasitic diseases. All fish have died no matter which they got.

HELP!??

My water parameters have been normal all along, although my PH has always been 8. That's my water and I have never messed with it except in my male betta's tank because I'm scared to and its always been stable. I do 50% weekly water changes.

 

[beckyd]

I lost three more mollies today. No outward sypmtoms. Acting listless and clamping their fins a bit for only 24hrs or so. Another female dropped a premature brood. All dead except 2. They have really swollen bellies. I don't know if that's because they are early or deformed from something. Don't know if they will make it long enough for me to tell. I cleaned the tank again because of all the dead babies. Just did that 3 days ago.

Can anyone think of anything? Suggestions? Should I scrub the tank and recycle?

 

[MissFishy]

There's no ammonia reading in this tank?

My suggestion would be to slowly raise the tank temp to 85, this will kill off a lot of things. Are there any remaining open sores or anything on any fish that are currently alive?

 

[1077]

I am thinking along the lines of MissFishy. I might were it me, check the ammonia,nitrite,and nitrAte levels and it would be helpful if you could post those readings. Ammonia and nitrites should be zero with nitrAtes below 40 with 20 being ideal. What type of filtration is being used on each tank? Sometimes replacing all the filter material,pads,cartridges,etc at one time can destroy enough good bacteria to cause ammonia levels to rise. This in turn stresses the fish which then makes them more suceptible to bacterial pathogens,fin rot,and or parasitic outbreaks. I would ,were it me,, remove sick fish and try my best to keep water parameters up. It becomes an expensive proposition treating fish in larger tanks which is why many use quarantine tanks, but then you already know this don't you? It is very difficult to diagnose fish ailments for most hobbyists, certainly me. So I take great pains to keep the water paramaters at optimum levels so that I can eliminate enviornmental issues as contributing to any particular ailment. I am not a fan of medicating fish without knowing precisely what it is I am treating for. Many symptoms are shared by too many different ailments therefore,, I remove sick fish and euthanize, while as stated,, keeping water quality at optimum level. If the particular pathogen takes all of the fish (dead),, I would not tear down the tank. Most bacterial pathogens and parasites cannot live without a host (fish) for more than ten days. after this length of time,, with no fish in the tank,, the bacteria (good kind) that breaks down the ammonia will have been depleted to the point that tank will have to be allowed to Mature, or (cycle) once again but the particular pathogen will have also died for it has had no fish to feed on. But if a different look to the tank is desired,, then this would be the time to do it. Wish I could be of more help but this,, Is all I can offer you.

 

[beckyd]

Thanks SO much. I will post specific water parameters when I get home tonight. Ammonia and nitrites have been zero. The nitrates have never got to 40 due to my weekly water changes, but I'll check it again.

I'm happy to hear that you agree with my reluctance to treat the whole tank. I have already raised the temp to about 84. I turned up the heater to its max, then added another one to get it to 84. Can't seem to get it higher, so I'll add another one tonight also. I did this just to keep any fish with weak immune systems from getting ick on top of it. Happy to hear that this helps other things too.

There are no sores or visible anything an any fish now, but the last 3 that died had nothing also. I am guessing that the sores were secondary infections due to weaken immune systems?

The female that birthed prematurely the other day is hanging in there. Still eating. I have a few youngsters that look to be struggling. They are swimming funny. Not swim bladder funny, its hard to describe. They are getting in the filter stream and just look like they are laboring, swimming really fast to stay there. I will take all the mollies out tonight and put them in a hospital tank, whether they are acting normal or not. Hopefully, I won't lose every one of them, but its not looking like a good trend. Its so painful to watch them slowly dying off.

The filter is a double chamber HOB. I change out one side at a time, rinsing that side's bio pad at the same time in dechlorinated water. Its on one end of the tank. I run a bubble wall on the opposite end of the tank. This is how both affected tanks are set up. I have undergravel filters to add during the upcoming move.

The info about most diseases needing a host after 10 days is great info. The fish I have in the 75 will go into a little tank tonight, leaving the 75 empty. I will move it and its subtrate this weekend without starting from scratch. However, I won't move the fish for 2 weeks. I will then use Seachem's Stability to recycle the tank.

I hope this works!

 

[MissFishy]

Word to the wise, I wouldn't go with the undergravel filter, they are a mess to clean up and really aren't necessary if you have a HOB.

I would leave the heat up for a few weeks and see if that helps anything. It's hard to diagnose anything if all fish appear healthy. If they appear thin they could possibly have some sort of internal parasite, there are a lot of foods on the market to treat that.

 

[beckyd]

Thanks. Will do.

Checked my water again. Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates under 20. At least nobody died today. Put all the mollies except 2 that are quite frisky into a hospital tank tonight. Trying Lifeguard to see if it helps any of them. They're not thin, but I have been questioning an internal parasite. I didn't realize there was food to treat that. I did try an antibiotic food, but it was such large bites for small fish. None of them would eat it. I'll look for the anti-parasitic food. Thanks for the info.

Emptied the fish out of the 75 too. I have little tanks all over the house because I'm terrified to put any fish together. My family thinks I have gone off the deep end as now the biggest tank in the house doesn't even have fish in it!

How long do they all have to be quarantined from each other until I can safely put them together again without fear of someone harboring something sneaky?

 

[MissFishy]

Well, I would say that unless one is specifically showing symptoms, they've all already likely been exposed, so quarantining them all separately may be pointless at this point. I'm not really clear what you're doing with the 75 gallon (are you moving it?), but if you plan to put fish back in it, don't forget to keep it cycled. If no fish are in it and you plan to re-add them, I would shock it with high tank temps, maybe up to 90.

I would keep them all separated and being treated for now for at least 14 days monitoring what happens closely.

 

[beckyd]

Yes, I am moving in 10 days. I took the fish out of the 75 early so hopefully anything that needs a host will die. This was 1077's suggestion and an easy one considering my upcoming move. I will move the 75 to the new house and wait two weeks to put fish in it. 1077 mentioned that I will have to recycle the tank, which I assumed. You mention 'keeping it cycled'. Any way to accomplish this without fish?

I can also follow your advice to shock it with high temps first. How long do you think that is necessary? I will have to use all the heaters in the house to get that tank to 90, which will leave my other tanks heaterless. Thats ok in Florida for awhile, but I will have to keep the air conditioner under control. I'll want to minimize this unless you have any other creative way to do it?

Another molly birthed a batch of premature fry last night. And the young mollies that are failing are getting funny curves to their spines. The adults have not had this symptom. If its TB, is there a treatment?

 

[MissFishy]

Fish TB I don't think has a direct treatment, but once it infects a tank system, it's hard to get rid of. You are right, it does sound like it may be that. Be careful handling the fish, humans can also get it from them if you have open cuts, etc. Do some googling and read up on it. You can keep a tank cycled by adding a few drops of pure ammonia (no suds, coloring, or fragrances), you can usually find some at a hardware store. I would keep the tank up to 90 for at least 2 weeks and see if that helps, that would kill off any bugs in the tank, but not TB. Since you are having fry being born with crooked spines, that actually does sound a lot like it might be TB, do some googling. I didn't even think of it since it happens so infrequently.

 

[beckyd]

Thanks for the advice. I have been fearing TB for awhile now. Its all just so weird. I asked advice at the LFS. He wants to test my water, so I'll take some in tomorrow. Not sure what to do with what he suggests as he scolded me vehemently a while back for doing weekly water changes. Told me I was going to kill my fish and I should never water change more than once a month. Whatever.

Off to google how to get TB out of my tank before I move it...

 

[beckyd]

Well, so much for keeping the tank cycled. Bleach is the recommendation. Just ordered long gloves.

Sounds like I will likely lose all my fish eventually. How sad

 

[MissFishy]

If that is what it really is...you never know. I wouldn't listen to the LFS employees, most have no clue what they're talking about.

 

[beckyd]

I would like to know for sure if this is TB. How do I get it tested?

Bleached the heck out of the 75g. Nothing infectious in there now!