What is wrong with my tank???

[randomosity8]

Okay so I've had some trouble with my tank recently on and off. So I have a 38 gallon thats been up and running for about 3 years. I used to have it with no undergravel filter and a fluval filtration system. Well when I cleaned out the tank a while back I noticed there seemed to be a lot of scum underneath the gravel as I would mix it up with the gravel vacuum and I figured I'd maybe try an undergravel filter system to see if that could help. Before I added the undergravel filter all of my levels of the tank were safe and good, I was just adding in the undergravel filter because it seemed like my gravel would get dirty so easily and I would have to clean it more often with the gravel vac.

So after I added the undergravel filter, everything in my tank seemed to do fine for about 6 months (it was working on keeping the gravel cleaner), but then something went horribly wrong in my tank and all of my fish started dying. I had 6 cherry barbs, 3 females, 3 males, and they all died, and I had a pleco that died and some of my other tetras (neons, glolights, black neons, etc.) that died. So I was left with 3 scissortail rasboras, 2 glolights, 1 bloodfin, and 1 black neon. That was it. So I did some tests, but everything seemed to be fine!
-ammonia: 0 ppm
-nitrate: 0 ppm
-nitrite 0 ppm
-hardness: hard
-alkalinity: 80 ppm (moderate)
-pH: 7

So I had no idea what happened! I always do a weekly 25% water change and always add a tap water neutralizer to make sure that the new tap water I put into the tank has all of its chlorine neutralized. But before most of my fish died they were starting to act funny, and I started doing a 50% weekly water change, but they all still died. So after they all died, I did a 100% water change, cleaned everything good and put my fish back in.

So after this complete water change, the rest of my fish seemed to be doing fine for about another 6 months. So I recently wanted to add some more fish, and since I have always wanted to add tiger barbs, I decided to add 6 tiger barbs and I also added 1 pleco. (I know its a common pleco and it would eventually grow out of my 38 gallon, but once it gets larger I will give it to my cousin who has a 70 gallon...I got this pleco before I researched more and found out about the bristlenose pleco which I will get next to combat algae).
So I added these new fish, and everything seemed to be going great. I did a large 50% water change just last week (note I still have my undergravel filter) and this week all of my fish seem to be acting funny. Like they did before my last major die out of fish. 1 of my tiger barbs is sulking in the corner, some of my tetras are all staying in corners and my pleco was floating earlier and when I went to grab him he swam back down and hid in a piece of drift wood. I checked all of my levels again and they were all safe:
-ammonia: 0 ppm
-nitrate: 0 ppm
-nitrite 0 ppm
-hardness: hard
-alkalinity: 80 ppm (moderate)
-pH: 6.8

So my question is (and sorry this is so long) ever since I've had my undergravel filter it seems that I've had problems. And I was wondering if any one else has had problems using an undergravel filter? Before I added the filter none of my fish died and I had my tank without an undergravel filter for about 1 year and 6 months, with no deaths and levels all good. But I only added my undergravel filter to keep up with how much scum was in my gravel and seemed to be getting dirty easily. But ever since I added it I've had one huge die out of fish and now my fish are acting funny again.

Please help me with any of my questions and give me any advice you can offer. I'm really sorry that this is so long but I don't know what to do.

Thank you so much for any advice!

 

[abigor0329]

undergravel is useless in what it for

An undergravel filter doesn't actually filter anything. If used as directions state, all it does is suck the waste and leftover food to the bottom of the tank, under the filter and it stays there. The gravel is supposed to be the actual "filter" part of it and its sole purpose is to help the growth of beneficial bacteria. You still have all that waste under the filter decomposing and causing toxins in the water. Not necessarily ammonia. There are toxins in water besides ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. I had the same issues and will never use an UG filter again. I removed the gravel and switched over to sand and haven't had a problem since. Good luck.

 

[randomosity8]

Thanks abigor0329! I saw your thread about how switching to sand completely helped your ammonia problem. I haven't had problem with my ammonia though, and my nitrates and nitrites are all good. But I'm sure its some other chemicals underneath the UGF. I've also considered switching to sand, I love the look of sand much more, but is it a hassle to clean?

 

[randomosity8]

Update on my tank: my pleco just died

 

[abigor0329]

Sorry about your Pleco. Sounds like you have some serious issues if they are starting to die off. As for cleaning sand, its not hard, just time consuming. Took me an hour and a half for 15 lbs. What you do is get a 5 gal bucket and only fill it about 1/3 with sand at a time. Use a hose and start pouring water in and when you get to about 3/4 full of water, start sifting the sand around with a clean stick or your hand. You will see a bunch of dust in the water. Don't use a nozzle on the hose as it stirs up too much sand and you end up pouring sand out. So once you are done sifting it around let it sit and wait for the sand to settle. The dust will stay on top. Slowly pour out the water and repeat the adding water and sifting until you have clear water on top. May take 10 times or more, but once it is clear, pour the sand into a clean bucket or container and repeat cleaning with any more sand you have. The more sand you have, the more cleaning processes it will take, obviously, but if you have a 38 gal tank, you don't have to go by the "lb of gravel per gallon" rule with sand. You can easily get away with 30 lbs. Actually the thinner layer of sand the better because it sometimes will develop "gas" pockets if not disturbed. So a thinner layer of sand will lessen the chance of "gas" pockets in the sand, which is bad for fish as well. I would suggest about an inch of sand would be plenty. If you have any plastic plants, make sure they are the weighted base kind. The ones with the plastic "cup" that gravel holds them down, sand isn't heavy enough and they will float to the top.
No matter how thoroughly you clean the sand, you will always have some dust leftover when you start adding water. Add water very slowly when you have the sand down or it will stir it up and will take longer to settle. I have it in a 20 gal. long and took me about 45 mins to fill, that's how slow I filled it. After I had mine filled, I let it sit to let the little bit of sand settle and scoop out the bits floating on the top. Just make sure to keep the filter head at least 1-2" above the sand so it doesn't suck it in and clog your filter prematurely.

 

[OrangeCones]

randomosity8 - How are you testing your water? What type of test kit is it? It would be very unusual to have zero in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate if the tank has been established for a long time.

 

[randomosity8]

@OrangeCones: sorry it took me a while to reply, I had to work today. Anywho, the ammonia test kit is made by "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc." and it just says "Ammonia NH3/NH4 test kit" on the front. I'm not sure if the exact reading on Ammonia was 0 b/c the test of the water color is indicated by a color chart that has:
-yellow: 0 ppm
-light green/yellow: 0.25 ppm
-light green: 0.50 ppm
-etc. etc.

And the color of my water when I tested was mostly yellow but of course could have had some green tint in it. So it may not have been exactly 0, it may have been 0.10 or something but my color chart only goes from 0 to 0.25 to 0.50, etc. I don't know if that helped you or not, but trying to give you as much info as I can.

As for the nitrate, nitrite kit. Okay, so I don't know if this is good quality, but I got one of those 5-n-1 quick dip test kits and the brand name is "Jungle: Fish care made easy", and it tests for pH, nitrate, nitrite, hardness, and alkalinity all at once on test strips.

The color of the nitrate block on the test strip was white, which shows it as 0 ppm, and the next color block on the reading chart is pink, and the test strip I had had no pink tint to it, and even if it did have a pink tint, the the reading for a darker pink would've been 20 ppm. But the color I had for nitrate was completely white, like a cream color.

As for nitrite, the color block was also completely white, like a cream color, with no tint of pink, and it says on my color reading chart that that also indicates 0 ppm nitrite. The next color block has a tint of pink in it on the color chart and that indicates 0.5 ppm, but when I did my test there was no tint of pink.

So I don't know if maybe the 5-n-1 test strips don't work as well or something? But These were my readings. And to let you know, just about 1 or 2 days before I did all these tests on my water, I had done a 50% water change, so I don't know if that would be the reason most of my readings were 0 rather than if I had just done a small % water change, maybe they would've been larger readings?

Ok, so once again, sorry this is so long, just trying to give you as much info as possible so you can help me out.

Thanks!!!

 

[randomosity8]

Oh, and btw, another smalll update: Last night my fish were all acting kinda funny, like some were in the corners and hiding and looked lethargic. So I turned off the undergravel filter last night (was gonna remove it, but it was late and I had to work early today, so gonna take it out tonight) and so I turned it off last night and all my fish today seem to be acting normal again and happy as ever! The only casualty I had was my poor pleco .

 

[OrangeCones]

The API ammonia test should be more accurate. If your reading has some green to it but not as green as the 0.25ppm level, it just means some ammonia is there but your bioload is too much for your bacteria to process currently.

The paper strips are not know for accuracy. I had a LFS test my water twice with two water samples. Both samples were taken from the same tank at the same time. I just poured the water into two seperate plastic bags to take in.

Out of the same box of strips, I was shown different readings. One had ammonia and nitrite at zero, and nitrate at 10. The other had ammonia at zero, nitrite at 0.25 and nitrates over 40.

That day, I bought the liquid API Freshwater Master Test kit.

If you can get a liquid test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at least, you can likely find out what is killing your fish, and take the necessary steps to correct it.

 

[randomosity8]

Okay, thank you OrangeCones! Yeah, I just saw those test strips one day and thought I'd try them. So "API" is the brand name for the ammonia test kit? And does that "Master Test Kit" test for ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites?

Also, I took out the undergravel filter, and the fish seem to be acting normal again. I only had one death, and that was the pleco.

 

[OrangeCones]

You said you have the test kit for ammonia made by "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc." ..which is API for short. They make a good Freshwater Master Test Kit that tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Just make sure its for FRESHWATER, as they also make one for SALTWATER.

 

[randomosity8]

Oh, haha, silly me. I'm bad when it comes to acrynyms. LoL. Thanks, and I'll look into getting the API test kit for nitrate and nitrite.

 

[abigor0329]

Yes API is the maker of the master test kit. Have one myself. It tests Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, PH, and High PH. I never use the high PH being it tests for levels way above what should be for a normal freshwater tank. Never did trust the strips.