why does everyone like huge cichlids?

[catfishmike]

sorry folks but i got to know.why does everyone love these large cichlids?my shop is a revolving door for red devils,oscars,green and red terrors,trimacs etc.. with all the great apistos and geophagus fish why bother with such a pain in the but fish to keep.and please don't tell me the have character,cause we all know how engageing an old oscar can be.i realy ask this because so many people buy these fish and i think it sucks how a fish this large is sold to just anyone.you should have to sign a waiver or something before you buy these fish so when you get tierd of talking care of it you can't just dump it on someone else or in the river

 

[Orion]

I think a lot of it has to do with inexperiance in the world of fish keeping and a true lack of knowledge of the species of fish they buy. That, and I think we all know about the whole "Mines bigger than yours" thing!!!
I know that in Jan of 2002, I was just getting back into the hobby, and I wanted an Oscar damn it, didnt matter, I wanted one! Well by gosh I ended up getting 2 for my 20 gallon tank. They were about 3in when I bought them. By the time I got married in April, they were fighting a little bit, and by May, we had to get rid of one. Dont flame me for this, I know better now, But alas, he still is living in only a 45 gal tank. As soon as we get a house, or bigger apt, we are getting a bigger tank for the guy.

And as much as I love him to death, if I had it to do over agian, I would not have gotten him. He is just too big for the limited space I have right now. And if I could find a wonderful home for him, I would let him go. Just for the benifet of the oscar.

Most people buy these large fish out of ignorance/and or stupidity. I agree with you catfishmike, people who want to buy large fish, preditory fish and others of the like should have to sign a waiver stating that they understand the fish they are buying.

Hey, I really think that people should have to have a licenes to keep fish. And on the licsenes it states how big the tanks you have are, and then based on that you have a certian number of speices that the LFS can sell you. Also that would keep many new aquarist out there from spending butt-loads of money of fish just to have them all die because they thought that a sponge filter would be more than enough for the new 55gal tank they just bought.
Hehe, they should have virtual fish tanks, where you can select the fish and equimpent you keep.


EDIT: Also on the point of people dumping there fish into the local ecosystem, when a fish dies, or is goten rid of, keepers should be required to fill out movement forms, stating when and where a fish was sold, traded, or disposed of. And when people didnt comply with this, then the tree police would fine them money for potentaly releasing a non-native species into the local habitat. That would get some of the more careless keepers attention pretty darn quick and make them think twice about doing it.

 

[catfishmike]

i like the way you think about fish management.as far as it goes you are almost right on for every aspect.the only thing i can see wrong with that kind of regulation is that there will be too much backlash from the fish industry and retailers.that and many people will be put off by the idea that they are being monitered for keeping fish.the whole virtual tank idea is great.how about a program that has a.i. for most commonly kept fish so you can get an idea of how your proposed tankmates will act.you could factor in things like filtration,turn over rate decoration density etc... i think maybe two sections for fish if fish were to be regulated one side for fist that should be small and non threating to the enviroment and one side for regulated fish,and fish that got too large for the avarage fish keeper.

 

[Avalon]

"I think a lot of it has to do with inexperiance in the world of fish keeping and a true lack of knowledge of the species of fish they buy."

This is part of it. The rest could be this "macho" persona that people need to fulfill. Some do it to be "cool," some do it for some primitive instinct that needs to be appeased. Have you ever taken a survey of the people who tend to keep rotweilers? I'm not saying what the results could be; I'll let you decide that for yourself.

Then there is another reason that should be considered: because they can be really cool fish! I keep a few large cichlids, but not to be "cool." I know my way around the fish hobby, and I made my decision to keep them with intent, not ignorance. I supply them a proper home and enviornment. I try to keep fish that appeal to me for my own personal reasons, generally personality, color, habits (like not digging up my plants), and all around good nature--not for them to beat up all my other fish. I saw a fully grown Jack Dempsey the other day in a tank with a fully grown Albino Oscar, and he looked marvelous! The oscar just didn't appeal to me. Seeing fish that large up that close is really cool to me!

Why would a person buy a Cadillac Escalade when they could buy a Honda?

I don't know about having a license to purchase fish. With promises come enforcement, and who's going to be around to keep tabs on you and your fish?

I do believe that information should be widely and readily distributed--for free, maybe along with the fish you purchase. Ah, that's why we have internet forums! Unfortunately, there is still quite a bit of disinformation that floats through them because some people don't care to think for themselves nor consider the sources, the logic, and the practices. It would be a very wise move to create a government backed program for the fishkeeping industry.

Standardization and certification would be key: you pay money to take a test (helps fund the program) and become certified in various areas such as cichlids, aquarium plants, general fishkeeping, etc. This would be important because the tests would be standardized rather than hearsay. If this is the kind of license you are suggesting, then I'm all for it. All it takes is a lobbying group(s), a well-laid plan, and maybe an inside connection with a state senator or other member of the legislature to make a little noise for you (beats picketing!). Look me up when you're ready to get this plan rolling!

 

[catfishmike]

that whole rotwiler thing is soo right. i think your pretty right on as well avalon.perhaps if a few more of us get some ideas flowing we can really change some stuff.yea that whole regulation idea is still rough and i thought the same thing"who will monitor and enforce these new rules" you see one day i would like to keep some large cichlids,perhaps a frontosa or an uaru.i know all too well how colorful and charming most s.amercan cichlids are.and your right about the whole macho factor thats all i get when people buy feeders knuckelheads who are impressed that their fish eats stuff.ok people lets get together and start a new age of informed fishkeeping.this way we won't have any more posts like the one from dafishkilla

 

[AmazonTankz]

Not only large Cichlids but also other predatory fish, such as pirahna, or barracua. I can't tell you how many times I talk the ordinary (community fish) keeper or a first timer from buying pirahna, and espectially Oscars and Bala Sharks.

 

[Orion]

"..important because the tests would be standardized rather than hearsay. "
That is excatly what I am talking about. You cant go out and drive a car without a licence. If you have a regualr dirvers licence, you cant legally drive a Motorcycle. Makes perfect sence to me.

It has always been my thought that if any LFS or LPS is going to sell any type of live animal, not just aquatic life, that they should have lots of corect information to give to the buyer or perspective buyer. This way the public is armed with knowledge. And then hopfully they can make the correct action from there.

hehe, i will write the rest of the stuff I've got to say on the subject down for now. not sure what Virus I have caught, but it feels my head is on a ballon string! --Mabey I should slip a little melafix into my coffee!

 

[TaffyFish]

however well intentioned guys, you'll be up to your ears in regulations and it will only harm all levels of the hobby.

I mean where do you draw the line? Maybe first up nobody can have a goldfish until they've completed a written exam on the nitrification process and new tank syndrome, then have purchased a minimum of 10 gallons of tank per fish and a filter rated for twice the capacity of the tank. Net result - nobody would ever buy a goldfish and nobody would ever get that first toe into the water. And what would the exam be like for owning a marine reef set up or a rift lake tank.

Of course it would be more realistic to start with the tankbusters and predators but regulation would have to be at the point of sale - how would the dealers feel about this and would this drive the availability underground amongst the very unscruplous? and wouldn't the lack of availability make the "kudos" of owning such species even greater?

 

[Orion]

I know that regulating the hobby would be an unwise and unrealistic goal in the real world due to many of the reasons that you gave Taffy, but we can all dream cant we? hehe

I do feel that at te very least, that LFS and others who deal in the fish trade should be required to have care sheets on certian species of fish. Take Oscars for example. One LFS here usualy has about 6 to 12 in a 225 gallon tank about 2-3" each. They have them in with some huge common pleco's (10in and better) Juvenile Pacus, Silver dollars, ID cats and other cats. This set up would make it seem like the oscar would make a great fish to add to any community aquarium, plus that and they are just so gosh darn cute at that size. What happens offen is that the owners have there kids, or who ever working there to help out and most dont know a cichlid from a catfish. Have the time if I ask one of them what a certian species is, they cant even begian to tell me what it is. Haveing regulated information on these fish, that is kept with the fish, would put a lot of the guess work aside from matters like this.

I think that making the proper information availible to the more larger species, aggreisive species, and the ones that require special care, should be something that every LFS should want. I feel that this is a much more resonable and practical start twords a solution.

But hey, In my perfect world, humans should have to require a licence to breed!!

 

[Jawz]

hmm i can speak on many levels for this as I was 12 wen i got my first oscar and stuck it in a 10 gallon tank with sharks and watched with joy as he bit the fins apart and dominated that tank although he was 1 inche big. Ever since i grew that fish out into its own 65 gallon tank with a firemouth and then it died 3 years later to present date. Now i have a 3 inche or so Jack Dempsey in a 35 gallon tank. Responsibility of fish is shearly upon the owner.

You cannot expect people to register their tanks or take tests. Its not logical. Like who would constantly go back and forth registering new tanks, sold tanks cracked tanks its not reasonable. Tests are also too inspecific i can say as differing opinions can occur to answers. SO the test must be generally broad. I.E some say minimum 50 gallons or minimum 75 gallons for an individual oscar. Who is right? Neither cuz it cant be proven what a fish really requires.

Furthermore from learning from experience, i started a salwater setup a while ago. Spent hundreds upon hundreds, dint be patient and boom slap in the face as the whole thing beccame one disaster zone as fish died right to left. Then i looked back and read alot and saw i missed this and that and should have done this. Information is key, yes it is a good idea that LFS provide liek sheets with basic to decent knowledge of the fish they are jsut selling to their customers in which the customers can read and decide if this is right for them.

On another note, even if the staff asks questions, if the customer is rejected they will simply come in the next day and lie. Ive done it many a times cuz i knew what i was doin and got an oscar for a 35 gallon which id grow out in 6 months into a 65.

AS for my reason for picking larger cichilds, it is because cichilds are known to be smart species which attracts me to them and the colouration and temperment is appealing. Dont put me down as being a cynical child seeking death and destruction in my species. But i do appreacite viewing nature at work. get some goldfish, wopty doo they swim around like idiots. Now a cichild will bust its fins to protects its 'Rights" you could say and territory. You could almost say they are humanlike in some aspects. Those are my two cents which will probly be drilled through like swiss cheese, but ill be glad to debate further on this topic.

 

[Layla]

Well I don't like them and I've wondered why they're so popular myself! If I could afford a huge tank there's so much more I'd rather have in it--like big schools of little fish for one.

 

[Doomhed]

MINE!MINE!MINE!

well, i like my 2 oscars, and the tilias buddkoferi i owned. when i see smaller non-cichlids (except those mindless angels), they pretty much swim around back and forth with no real purpose. oscars, Jacks, and other bigger cichlids move with purpose. you can see an oscar look at where he is going before he goes there. ever watched an oscar re-arrange a tank to what it looked like before you added those spiffy new plants or rocks? it shows intelligence in the coolest form. the bigger cichlids, and even many of the smaller ones, do things because they want to, not because they swim aimlessly. if an oscar feels lazy he does not swim slow, he stops swimming. period. these big guys seem almost human. that is their appeal.

 

[beaver8888]

^.^?

i like them there cool for a big tank and also i dunno i just like um

 

[MxPxSumBlink418]

I have a convict hes big enough for me. I keep him in my 55 gallon Gourami Tank and he seems to get along with all of them.

 

[Saint]

Why do some people like small cichlids? It is a matter of opinion. Who is to say I should or should not like a certain fish? Even better, who is to say what size fish I should like? Please....

 

[catfishmike]

ok saint little snippy huh.what i was talking about was the fact that the people that generaly buy these fish don't give a damn about the fish only their amusement.firsh an oscar then a jack then a red devil then a managuensis all in a 55.then comes the trade in"uh yea my oscar was gettin beat up by my red devil so i want to get a new oscar so maybe the red devil won't beat him up"now this is the part where i explane why this is happening.now the customer responce"but see when i put him in they didn't fight"then i explane more and then essentaly what happens after this point is the customer trys to rationalize their idea despite what you just told them.in the end the get the fish and you get letf thinking about how to heal the beat up oscar and just thinking about what a bad place you sent the other oscar to.sorry it's not like i want to take these great fish away i just can't see how we let a double standard go like this.no one would never sell two bettas to some jerk who proudly claims "i'm gonna make these fish fight"

 

[Orion]

I think that it would be wonderful if all people had knowledge of the fish they were buying. This doesnt apply just to cichlids either. But this will never happen. Somewhere, there will always be the idiot who thinks that an oscar will be just fine for his entire life in a 20 gallon. Nothing can ever be done about people like this.

Trust me, I see and meet people all the time who shouldnt even breed themselves, much less attemp to care for a smaller life form. These people shouldnt be alowed to leave there house.

There will always be ignorant people out there. And as long as they are out there, there will be somebody else taking advantage of there ignorance and making money off of it.