WHY

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

Why wont my ammonia go down? I been doing daily water changes, 25% weekdays and 50% on sunday. I skip saturday. Yesterday I testeed my water and it said:

ammonia: 1.0 ppm
nitrites: 0 ppm
nitrates: 0 ppm

Now today just a few mintes ago it said:

ammonia: 2 ppm
nitrites: .25 ppm
nitrates: 0 ppm

What is going wrong here? Any other info you need just ask.

 

[tubbs24]

still cycling? is this your 10 or do you have a new tank set up? how long has the tank been up and running?

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

Actually this is my 10. It has been running for about 2 weeks now.

 

[Pure]

Not long enough, and actually the water changes draw it out. This is why we do fishless cycle. Much faster than fish-in cycling.

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

So what do you suggest? How do you do a fishless cycle without buying ammonia? I never figured that out.

 

[tubbs24]

its not possible unlesss you buy ammonia. If you have your fish in there, you'll have to wait it out, and pray that they won't perish.

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

Well I guess so far they haven't so thats good. So should I keep up with my 50% wc?

 

[homebunnyj]

If you do a water change and ammonia still reads 1.0 or above, you need to do another in order to get it down below 1. At least that's my understanding of it, that you must keep the ammonia below 1 to keep harm to your fish to a minimum. Oto's are very sensitive to nitrites and excess nitrates too, IME, so I wouldn't be really surprised if they didn't make it. If they don't, just chalk it up to experience, and wait until your tank is stable to add oto's.
You gotta test every day and change enough water to get the ammonia and nitrite down. A schedule just won't work during cycling; the test levels must dictate when and how much water you change.
Good luck, and keep up the hard work.

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

Thanx. I am what you call a hard willed person. I actually mourn my fishes death without knowing I am. I just dont understand, I know my tap water is as followed:

ammonia: 1ppm
nitrites: 0ppm
nitrates: 0ppm

Maybe thats why they wont go down. Well thanx again

 

[fishtrap]

You can speed up the cycling process by seeding the tank with gravel from an established tank. If you know someone with a healthy tank that's been up for a while, ask if you can have a handful of gravel. Or ask your LFS for some. Just make sure it doesn't dry out or get too hot or cold between the mother tank and yours or the nitifying bacteria will die.

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

thanx fishtrap

 

[noncentric]

its not possible unlesss you buy ammonia. If you have your fish in there, you'll have to wait it out, and pray that they won't perish.

There are other ways of providing an ammonia source besides pure ammonia. There is the raw shrimp method (toss a raw shrimp from your grocery store's seafood department into the tank and it will release ammonia as it rots, but can be stinky) or the fish food method (putting fish food in the tank daily it will produce ammonia as it rots). But since this is for fishless cycling, then you'd have to do something with the fish you already have.

If your tap water has ammonia in it, then it's going to be tough to get the ammonia down. Some dechlorinators 'de-toxify' ammonia, so the ammonia will not be toxic to the fish - but I think the de-toxified ammonia still registers on the test kit.

Since your tap water has ammonia, then you might want to check out RO (reverse osmosis) water or adding live plants.

Good luck!

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

Well the lady at petsmart said that live plants dont do anything for reducing ammonia or nitrites or anything, they are just for show. Is that false or not because I heard differently. And if I can add a plant then can I add a microsword to help with the cycling?

 

[tubbs24]

plants help remove nitrate from the water, and I guess they could speed up the cycling process if they were already in a cycled tank (carrying good bacteria). But for live plants thats all i've heard them do..besides converting CO2 to O2....

 

[tubbs24]

There are other ways of providing an ammonia source besides pure ammonia. There is the raw shrimp method (toss a raw shrimp from your grocery store's seafood department into the tank and it will release ammonia as it rots, but can be stinky) or the fish food method (putting fish food in the tank daily it will produce ammonia as it rots). But since this is for fishless cycling, then you'd have to do something with the fish you already have.

Ah, forgot about those! I have done the fish food method for my 5g, and I thought it worked pretty good.

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

Well the stores plant tanks are fully cycled because they had added plants to the tank after doing the ammonia thing for a fishless cycle. She also told me this. That if I did a 25% wc this week, then a 30% wc next week and then a 50% wc the next and repeat the process and that should do it. but wouldn't that (like pure said) take the ammonias and stuff out, even the good stuff.

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

There are other ways of providing an ammonia source besides pure ammonia. There is the raw shrimp method (toss a raw shrimp from your grocery store's seafood department into the tank and it will release ammonia as it rots, but can be stinky) or the fish food method (putting fish food in the tank daily it will produce ammonia as it rots). But since this is for fishless cycling, then you'd have to do something with the fish you already have.

Can I do that for a 2g tank? And how would I know when the ammonia is done and the nitrites are ready to go up?

 

[jumpfreak26]

as soon as the ammonia bacteria gets rid of it, you will know with your test kit when it is ready, when you have nitrites, dont do any water changes either, they need to stay there till they naturally go away, only when you have nitrates do a water change. yeah you can do that for a 2g, i did it in my ten. i just put a hefty pinch in the first day, enought to litter the floor, and small amounts every day for a week, then oh.... lets say every other day for the next couple weeks to provide nitrites from the ammonia bacteria

 

[UP UP AND GUPPY]

Thats so kool, I am now going to do that for a betta tank.

 

[noncentric]

Well the lady at petsmart said that live plants dont do anything for reducing ammonia or nitrites or anything, they are just for show. Is that false or not because I heard differently. And if I can add a plant then can I add a microsword to help with the cycling?

Well, that's one Petsmart employee whose word I wouldn't take for gospel. Plants will indeed consume ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates in a planted tank - that is why people can add fish immediately to a heavily planted tank without the fish experiencing any harm...and also why ammonia/nitrite spikes are much lower in moderately planted tanks during cycling.

Some believe that live plants only consume nitrates...that is not correct either. The problem is that once beneficial bacteria are established in the tank, then the bacteria and plants compete for ammonia and nitrites. The bacteria don't consume nitrates though, so all the nitrates are left for the plants.

You could add a microsword to help with cycling, but it's mostly fast-growing stem plants that have a noticeable effect on cycling. Any plants will help, but some help more than others.

Plants will consume CO2 and produce O2, but at night that changes and plants consume O2. That is why some people that inject CO2 run an airstone at night, so that there will be more gas exchange at the surface - to avoid the fish people suffocated by the lack of O2 at night, since the plants are also consuming O2.

jumpfreak pretty much covered the plans for proceeding. Counter to what the Petsmart person said, there's no need to do scheduled water changes if you're doing a fishless cycle.

Good luck!