45 gallon questions

[MOsborne05]

I ordered a new 45 gallon tank today to replace my existing 38 gallon tank. While we were looking around the lfs, hubby mentioned that he would prefer saltwater instead of freshwater for this tank, because it is in our living room. So we went to a couple lfs to price live rock, fish, and corals, and decided that I think we might go saltwater with it.

The tank is 36"x12"x24", is this too big for a first saltwater tank? I know that it is easier to maintain water quality in bigger tanks, but I don't want to be overwhelmed. Also, it is only 12" wide, is this going to cause a problem with arranging my live rock? Ideally I would want a cube tank for saltwater, but I don't want to have to buy another tank & stand so I'd rather just use the one that I already have.

And some more questions:
Live Rock- I would like to use mainly base rock with some live rock because it would be much cheaper, especially since the tank is much bigger than I had planned. Would this work?
Substrate-Would I need to use all live sand, or could I use playsand, and then buy some live sand from the lfs?
Refugium- I have a spare 10 gallon tank that should fit nicely under the stand, would this be big enough for a refugium?
Lighting-I would like to eventually keep some easy mushrooms, zoas, an anemone, and maybe some ricordea, what type of lighting would I need for those?

Other than that stuff, I would need to purchase some test kits, powerheads, hydrometer & salt. Anything I'm missing? Thanks in advance

 

[Lotus]

Welcome to saltwater planning

Live rock - yes, you can do it mostly with base rock, but you'll need to stock more slowly.
Substrate - you don't need any live sand, but you shouldn't get playsand (the silicates will give you algae). Fine aragonite sand is good. The "live" sand at the store is roughly equivalent to "cycle in a bottle" for freshwater tanks - it's not really live. You can either go for a 1" sandbed, or a 4"+ sandbed (in between isn't good).
Refugium - Yes, you could use a 10g tank.
Lighting - Anemones are high light users. If you're sure you want one, you'll probably need to get metal halide lights. If you don't really want one, PCs will be OK for the corals you listed. Anemones aren't really recommended with corals by a lot of people, and they do require a tank that's more than 6 months old. Clownfish don't need them, so think about whether you really want one.

I think the 45g high tank will be hard to aquascape. If you're going with base rock, you might want to do a structure with drilling and PVC tubing to overcome the narrowness of the tank. That way, you can have tall, narrow structures/caves without worrying about rock slides.

Edit: You should get a refractometer instead of a hydrometer. Hydrometers are famously inaccurate.

 

[MOsborne05]

Ok thanks

I'm not in a hurry to stock, so I'd rather save the money and go with base rock than empty my bank account on live rock. Since the tank is so high, I would want my rock about 18-20" high, so that would be expensive if I used all live rock. And, being that high, I want it to be as sturdy as possible so I think I will drill it and attach it together with pvc pipe. That would be much easier to do using base rock, and then I could just add some pieces of live rock around it. And, at $20/fish I'm definitely going to be stocking slowly!

I don't have to have an anemone, but one of the fish I'm planning on is a false perc clownfish, so I thought it would like an anemone, and I like watching them 'host'. I would also like to get a firefish and a goby of some sort.

Is there any benefit to having a 4" sand bed vs a 1" one, other than for burrowing purposes?

 

[Lotus]

If you go for a goby that digs, a 4" sandbed wouldn't work. A 4" sandbed (deep sand bed/DSB) provides an undisturbed zone in which anaerobic, denitrifying bacteria can colonize. However, if you have fish that dig, this can't happen. You can put in eggcrate under the rock to stop the sand from getting moved, if you want to have a DSB with a goby.

Otherwise, a 1" sandbed will be fine. You must put the rock on the base of the tank if you have a digger. Our gobies move the sand around, so some areas of the tank have 2" or so of sand, while others hardly have any.

If you go for the anemone/clownfish, add the anemone at around 6 or 8 months, give it time to establish, then add the clown. The clown will be the most aggressive of the fish you've listed, and should go in last anyway. Anemones can get stressed to death by a clownfish that's too large for it and "loves it too much." Anemones are really picky about water quality, and generally very sensitive.

 

[MOsborne05]

Would this be a good light to purchase? Or can someone recommend a better one that is 36"?
Current USA Satellite 36" 96 Watt Power Compact Fixture-Single Strip W/Lunar Light at Big Al's Online

Also, the guy at the lfs said I would need some sort of mechanical filtration like an hob filter. From what I've read, the live rock should provide all of the filtration that I need, correct?

And is there any specific brand of powerheads that are better than another? Also, how much flow should I aim for?

 

[1979camaro]

Those lights will limit your ability to keep anything which demands much light on a tank as tall as yours. An anemone would definitely be out.

You definitely do not need a HOB filter. As far as powerheads, Hydor Koralia, Tunze, and SEIO tend to be the most recommended brands. I have a SEIO and a Hydork Koralia and I like both, though they definitely operate differently. The SEIO moves a lot of water in a relatively large stream; the Hydor Koralia pushes a lot of water (more like a wave than a stream). You can run a lot of flow. The generally accepted minimum is 10x turnover per hour. For you, that would be 450gph total. Contemporary thinking says that much more flow than that is better/ideal. On my old 55 gallon I had almost 40x (2600gph). I am lower than that on the 90 as I have not added any additional pumps, but I will be doing so in the near future (MH lights first).

 

[Lorna]

I agree that you will need more light on that height tank. I would suggest looking at a T5 fixture or even a metal halide though they can get expensive. I have a dsb and have a gobie....he maintains the sand bed by constantly moving it around. I suppose it doesn't really work as a true dsb.....but it does produce nitrogen so some must be going on. False percs or ocellaris clowns are great little fish, though they won't automatically host most anemones as their natural host is a carpet anemone which I wouldn't recommend as they are extremely aggressive. Having clownfish and an anemone in the same tank is no guarantee that they will host as I have two clownfish and 2 anemones in my 75 and the clowns will not even go near the nems.....go figure....they host my candycane coral.

 

[MOsborne05]

Will clowns host in something like ricordea?

I have a dual tube strip light that matches my stand, could I just use VHO bulbs in it, or would I need to get a new strip light? I'll look into the t-5 lighting though too.

Anyone ever seen a lemonpeel angelfish? I would like to add one of them if I can find it. Would that be overstocking with a clownfish, firefish, goby & dwarf angel?

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I love lemonpeel angels... the nice blue edging makes me happy. They're my top choice for an angel when I can find one again. The only times I've seen them before is when I've already had an angel.

I had a dwarf angel, fairy wrasse, royal gramma, percula, firefish, and neon goby at one point and no problems in a 45g. They're all fairly little fish without too much bioload. The angel should help with any algae you get in there too.

I've found it's hard to do interesting aquascaping in the tall/thin 45g. It makes a nice display if you can get the rocks up near the top, but I can't so I have about 1/3 of the height as just the blue background. It looks roughly like a nicely aquascaped 30g with an extra 15g of water on top. When I initially got it, the guy had the rocks all piled up and leaning against the back so they went all the way up, but I didn't like the looks as much (didn't seem too stable). I haven't found a way to do the neat stuff with the rocks, like making a cove in the middle or doing two higher piles. It pretty much ends up looking like a single pile with pretty even height no matter what I do. I think if you had base rock also so there was a bigger volume of rock overall you could probably do better (or if you were just plain better at balancing and/or used something to hold the rocks in place so they could go higher). I'd personally much rather it was a 40g breeder, it would offer more creativity.

I've got just one massive powerhead on there, so I think I get the current type effect (I've read that's bad but I'm not sure why). You'd probably get more water movement with a few at different heights on both ends of the tank.

Hope some of that helps.

 

[MOsborne05]

Yeah thanks, I was worried about aquascaping because the tank is only 12" wide. But I'll make do with what I have that way I don't have to buy a new tank & stand. I plan on using mainly base rock. I'm going to drill it and use pvc pipe to piece the rock together, then I will fill in with live rock. Hopefully, by doing it this way, I can get a nice tall structure with a couple caves, or two seperate rock formations with a bridge in the middle. I haven't decided yet if I want two seperate formations or one big formation.

I'm trying to pick fish with contrasting colors for this tank. I really like the flame angels but I'm afraid it will 'blend' in with the clown too much. Although, the more I've been researching, the more I want a yellow watchman goby (maybe a shrimp/goby pair). If I go with the yellow goby, then I may get a coral beauty or flame angel instead, which the lfs has in stock. Too many decisions, but it will be awhile before I'm ready to start stocking anyways, so hopefully I will have made up my mind by then

 

[MOsborne05]

Does this look like a good deal?

Saltwater Fish Tank


I wouldn't want the fish though, but I could trade them in at the lfs for store credit.

 

[Lorna]

I wouldn't waste your money....if you are going to spend $500 then spend it on new equipment that you research well and get the best you can for your money

Consider a pygmy angel. I have one in my 29g that is housed with 2 clarkii clowns (that totally dove into the long tenticle anemone I saved from the lfs)
along with a citron gobie and a wheeler gobie/pistol shrimp pair. The pygmy is about 2" has great colour a deep blue with yellow around his head. He is a model citizen never nipping any corals or fish......lemon peels although pretty are known to nip corals and clams and are reef safe with caution only......other yellow fish you could consider are a midas blenny or many of the wrasses.

 

[MOsborne05]

I agree with you Lorna, but with this deal I could get everything that I need for $500 or less. If I bought everything seperately it would be way over that, and right now I can't afford to spend any more than that. The live rock and corals alone are worth $500, plus he has everything else. And I love the look of bowfront tanks.

Eventually I would probably upgrade to metal halides and try some more advanced corals, but for right now I'd like to keep it simple until I get the hang of it. This tank is already cycled and everything, so it would be much easier for me.

I still have to find out more about it though, and see how good of shape everything is. If its not in very good shape then I definitely will not waste my money.

 

[Lotus]

I've heard of clowns being hosted by xenia, so that might work with lower lighting options.

I've heard lemonpeels can really nip at corals.

 

[Lorna]

I would still be leary of that lot. You are also getting equipment that you don't need along with a few pieces that you do. I thought you had a tank already though it was only 12" deep? I still think you could do this relatively cheaply by buying some of your stuff separately used on the forums....check out some forums for sale, you can usually pick up live rock and powerheads, even light fixtures used for reasonable prices. Go slow and gather up the stuff you really need rather than buying one kit with a bunch of useless stuff.

 

[Lorna]

Try Michigan Reefers forum if you are near detroit/toledo you can get awesome stuff on there reasonable.......

 

[MOsborne05]

Ok thanks. I've been thinking about it and I agree with you, I would kind of like to start from scratch and learn as I go. That's my only problem with my tank, that its only 12" deep. I think I can make it look nice though if I use base rock and drill it.

Could I get away with using two VHO bulbs in my strip light until I can afford to get new lighting? Could I keep any corals with the VHO bulbs?

I'm trying to keep the initial start-up as low as possible, especially with Christmas right here. I'm getting a $5.00/hr raise on January 1st, so then I can start upgrading to the tank. Upgraded lighting and a skimmer can hopefully wait for a few months.

 

[MOsborne05]

Thanks for the info Lorna, I will be picking this up asap.

Nova Extreme T-5 Fixture with Lunar Lights (Purchased February 2007) - $100.00

These are the lights for that strip:
Slimpaq 460nm Actinic and 10000°K T-5 HO lamps.

Length Total Watts # T-5 Bulbs # Lunar
Lights
36" 156 watts 4-39 watt 3

This lighting should allow me to keep a wide range of stuff

 

[Lorna]

Yes that light will give you a lot more options for corals to keep. Just keep your eyes open for good deals. I sold my remora pro skimmer to someone that had only been used a few months....I've sold powerheads and other stuff for a fraction of the new cost. Not all of it was junk either, just didn't need it any more..

 

[MOsborne05]

Ok now that I've got the tank & lighting, I need to figure out my sump/refugium. I have a spare 10 gallon tank, would this be big enough to seperate into a sump & fuge, or should I just make it a fuge and forget about the sump? Also what all do I need for this, other than an overflow box?

If anyone has a link to a fuge/sump this small that would be very helpful. I've looked at a lot of sites and they are all for bigger sumps.

Has anyone tried one of these? Or do you think it is worth it?
Skilter Filters