Nippy Neons

[roark fishies]

Hi! I'm new to this site. I found it while googling for info on my new tank and fishes. Just a little background on my tank: It's only been set up for about a week and half now. It's a 10 gallon though I plan to eventually go larger if I have "fish luck." I started off with 3 male guppies, 3 neons, and 4 ghost shrimp. I didn't know about testing water for ammonia, nitrites and all that other stuff. I lost a guppy and all my shrimp. Yesterday I bought 2 more neons and 4 more shrimp. (Shrimp are already dead and I don't know why. Guess I have no luck with them.) Here goes my question....Are neons territorial? Before I added the 2 new neons everyone got along great. Today I noticed the bigger neons are picking on the smaller. Chasing and nipping. (They don't mess with the guppies). One of the neons even hangs out by himself under a rock. Is he being bullied? I don't want him to die cuz he's all alone. anyone ever had neons that are seemingly aggressive to their own kind?

 

[Kissyboots]

For the testing I use "Quick Dip" from "Jungle" from Petco. They have a bunch of other testing stuff but mine has 25 strips for 15 bucks. It's worth it though. It tests for nitrate, nitrite, hardness, alkalinity, and pH. All in one strip! As for the neons, I suppose you mean neon tetras? The first ones I bought, five I think, were in a group except for one guy. He always hung around in the corner and then died two days later. Then I got another one, very small, who turned totally white every night and also died eventually. The shrimp don't live very long. Mine survived about five months. If they were already big, then they were already old. Three of my four tetras are male I think and they sometimes nip and my female, probably because she is pregnant. Anyway, hope that helps. (Beware of guppies, they multiply rapidly)

 

[cchase85]

First of all, you need to read up on cycling a tank. Your tank is likely cycling now and this is why you are having fish (and shrimp) dying off. There is plenty of information on cycling on this forum and elsewhere on the web. Do not buy any more fish until you have learned about cycling a tank so you don't kill any more.

It is likely that many of your fish are very sick currently. In addition, new additions to the tank will likely die soon as well. It's hard to try to explain why your fish may be territorial when they are swimming around in poison.

The neons will pick on others if they are sick, to answer your other question.

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/fre...hless-cycling-everything-you-wanted-know.html

http://www.myfishtank.net/fishless-cycle/

 

[MissFishy]

Welcome, you've come to the right place for advice. As was said above, you really need to read up on cycling a tank. There is no such thing as "fish luck," it's having the proper information to care for them correctly. Your tank is already overstocked and your fish are likely dying from ammonia poisoning. If you don't do something soon (LIKE TODAY), your fish will most likely all soon be dead. I suggest you read up on the cycling links from chase, and also check out the link in my signature below on how to properly cycle, set up, and maintain a tank. It also has some stocking info on there.

 

[roark fishies]

For the testing I use "Quick Dip" from "Jungle" from Petco. They have a bunch of other testing stuff but mine has 25 strips for 15 bucks. It's worth it though. It tests for nitrate, nitrite, hardness, alkalinity, and pH. All in one strip! As for the neons, I suppose you mean neon tetras? The first ones I bought, five I think, were in a group except for one guy. He always hung around in the corner and then died two days later. Then I got another one, very small, who turned totally white every night and also died eventually. The shrimp don't live very long. Mine survived about five months. If they were already big, then they were already old. Three of my four tetras are male I think and they sometimes nip and my female, probably because she is pregnant. Anyway, hope that helps. (Beware of guppies, they multiply rapidly)

Thanks for your reply. I have the strips you're talking about as well as the ones that test for ammonia.
I only have male guppies so I'm not too worried about the multiplying...

I did mean neon tetras. I wonder if they prefer to be in even numbers since it sounds like yours had the same problem?

 

[roark fishies]

First of all, you need to read up on cycling a tank. Your tank is likely cycling now and this is why you are having fish (and shrimp) dying off. There is plenty of information on cycling on this forum and elsewhere on the web. Do not buy any more fish until you have learned about cycling a tank so you don't kill any more.

It is likely that many of your fish are very sick currently. In addition, new additions to the tank will likely die soon as well. It's hard to try to explain why your fish may be territorial when they are swimming around in poison.

The neons will pick on others if they are sick, to answer your other question.

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/fre...hless-cycling-everything-you-wanted-know.html

http://www.myfishtank.net/fishless-cycle/

I have been reading about cycling a tank. Alot actually. I know about fishless cycling. I chose to try it with fish and I know they are not swimming in poison. I test the water once a day if not more. I keep a very close eye on things. Certainly, I do not want to kill any more fish. I think the neon that is being picked on may have been sick when I bought him.

 

[roark fishies]

Welcome, you've come to the right place for advice. As was said above, you really need to read up on cycling a tank. There is no such thing as "fish luck," it's having the proper information to care for them correctly. Your tank is already overstocked and your fish are likely dying from ammonia poisoning. If you don't do something soon (LIKE TODAY), your fish will most likely all soon be dead. I suggest you read up on the cycling links from chase, and also check out the link in my signature below on how to properly cycle, set up, and maintain a tank. It also has some stocking info on there.

I know that it's not ammonia. I check for it every day. I don't see how only 2 guppies and 5 neon tetras have overstocked a 10 gal tank.

 

[zombiefetus]

If you know how to test your water then why did you say you didn't? What are the test results?

And if you're tank has only been up for "about a week and half" then it is not cycled unless you used the refrigerated product called "Bio-Spira" (unrefrigerated cycling products are worthless and do not aide in the cycling process, it's only making it take longer by adding more dead bacterias).

 

[cchase85]

Basically, your fish are either swimming in elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, or your test kits don't work and they just say there is none. You can't "get around" cycling a tank, and if your plan was to use fish-in cycling, using neon tetras and shrimp was probably the worst choice you could have made, as they (neons in particular) are finnicky as it is, with good water conditions, and you are exposing them to high levels of toxins.

 

[roark fishies]

If you know how to test your water then why did you say you didn't? What are the test results?

And if you're tank has only been up for "about a week and half" then it is not cycled unless you used the refrigerated product called "Bio-Spira" (unrefrigerated cycling products are worthless and do not aide in the cycling process, it's only making it take longer by adding more dead bacterias).

What I meant was that I didn't test my water the first 2 or 3 days after setting up my tank. I didn't know about testing water. Now I do and I test very regular and often. Especially since the tank has not cycled.
As of this am test results were this:
ammonia 0-.25
nitrates 0-20
nitrites .5
hardness 0
alk. 180-300
ph 7.8-8.4

I've heard about Bio-Spira and sounds like I need to try it.

 

[roark fishies]

Basically, your fish are either swimming in elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, or your test kits don't work and they just say there is none. You can't "get around" cycling a tank, and if your plan was to use fish-in cycling, using neon tetras and shrimp was probably the worst choice you could have made, as they (neons in particular) are finnicky as it is, with good water conditions, and you are exposing them to high levels of toxins.

It wasn't really my "plan" to use fish-in cycling. I admit that I didn't do any research on cycling. I'm a beginner and was very naive. I already had the fish by the time I realized fishless cycling is the best way to go to spare fish life. Now it's a little too late as I already have the fish. So I'm choosing to keep going with fish-in cycling. I've come to realize the ghost shrimp were a poor choice. So far my neons actually seem to be doing very well except the one that's being picked on.
I really don't usually have super high amm and trite levels unless every strip I have been using this week is wrong. Occasionally the amm does spike slightly and I do a 25-30% water change.

 

[zombiefetus]

definately call around and see if you can locate some bio-spira. If you find some add it straight to the filter- not the tank.

Until your tank is cycled do daily 25-50% water changes, this will keep the ammonia down (if you're ammonia is even 0.01 it's bad. It needs to be a 0).

You might also want to exchange the neons for something a little more hardy. Neons are very fragile. Until your tank is a little more stable you may just want to return the neons- I wouldn't add anything new just yet.

After your tank has cycled you could get new neons or a dwarf gourami or two, corydoras cats are okay for your size tank too. Just make sure you don't overstock it.

 

[Kissyboots]

Your nitrites need to go down. They are supposed to be on 0. When I first started, I had 7 (I know, really bad). I did millions of water changes and got down to 0 after 3-4 days. If the hardness matters, then yours should go up. Mine was low too until I started using more tap water (with chlorine neutralizer of course) instead of just drinking water. That helped. I don’t know about the alkalinity. The pH looks like it needs to go down. I can’t help you with that since I was in the 6.4s for a while and had to get up. It should be around 7. Hope that helps.

 

[roark fishies]

Thanks for all your replies! I still haven't figured out why the bigger neons are picking on the new little guy. He seems to be hanging in there though.

 

[zombiefetus]

The little guy might just be reacting bad to being in an uncycled tank. Do some water changes and see if he perks up.

 

[MissFishy]

With those results, yes, your fish are swimming in poison. Ammonia/Nitrite should be at absolute zero, especially for neons and shrimp. For some info on bio-spira and fish in cycling, please take the time to check out the link in my signature. Your tank still has a few weeks to go in the cycling process, and within that time your tank levels will definitely increase.

Yes, your tank is overstocked, the general rule for stocking is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. Since you have 10 gallons of water, you have room for 10 inches of fish. You have 6 neons = 6 inches of fish or more. 2 guppies = 2 inches each x 2 = 4 inches of fish, plus some shrimp. So you've got 10+ inches of shrimp and fish in your tank already, thus a fully stocked tank. You should NOT add anymore. And especially not even consider adding anything else until you have your water issues under control.