Beginner Drilled Tank Set-Up: From tank to sump?

[codster]

Hello Everyone!

I just got a new 46 Bow (All-Glass) Aquarium+Stand and decided to do my first SW Tank. Since this will be my first SW tank I had a few questions (after reading your beginner guide). They are mainly due to my drill set-up in the tank. I am hoping to do a FOWLR tank with some simple fish and go from there after a while (no coral for a bit). I do not know the specific fish I would like at first, but have a bit of time to figure it out after my tank is set up and cycled.

The tank came pre-drilled (there are two bulk-heads on the back of the tank:

Top-Right: One is 1" diameter, which is 2" from the black strip at the top.​

Left: Other is 1.25" diameter, which is 6.5" from the black strip at the top.​

I will have to do my own plumbing to and from my sump. The main problem I have is I cannot see many examples (pictures online) which show me exactly a Sump setup (plumbing) with this drill tank setup. Most examples I see are for over-the-top overflow setup.

WHAT I BELIEVE I WILL NEED TO DO:
1) Put a protective gate on the inside of the smaller higher bulkhead. Run the plumbing directly from this bulkhead into the Sump.
2) The Sump is a multi-champered tank(bought). It will go through a Protein Skimmer, then a live rock/live sand section (or perhaps refugium), then a return section (including a heater).
3) The return submersible pump will go directly into the lower larger bulkhead in the aquarium.

QUESTIONS:
1) First question is obviously with overflows. I understand since the bulkhead is near the top, if the pump fails it will poor into my Sump and be okay. If I do it this way, water is constantly be pouring into the Sump... although as long as the return pump pumps at the same rate as is coming in, it would be okay; maintaining this equilibrium will be hard I assume. Will I have to revert to a way similar to the hanging overflow system? If this is true, what was the advantage to drilling the bulkhead in the glass? Is there any way to hide everything in the sump-area? Some clarification on the exact details needed from the higher bulkhead to the sump (and what comes between them) would be much appreciated.

2) The return bulkhead. If the pump fails what prevents water from flowing back into the sump through this bulkhead? With the hanging-overflow a drill hole is placed in the tubing to act as a suction cut... how would I accomplish this with a drilled bulkhead setup? (1 way valve? or pipe to the top then back down...). What exactly needs to go between the return pump and the returning bulkhead?

3) Should a protective pipe cover (gate) go on the return bulkhead, inside the tank? Or just an elbow shape pipe is fine to control flow location?

4) I was hoping to use a submersive water pump. My tank is 46 G (if we want to flow 6 times the tank an hour... a flow rate of 276gph is needed). The Mag-Drive 700 has (Flow Rate at 4' Head: 475 GPH). Do you think the Mag-Drive 500 (Flow Rate at 4' Head: 310 GPH) will be sufficient for the tank? Having an overpowered pump will do no harm correct? Of course minimizing the costs is helpful.


THINGS I NEED TO BUY:
Plumbing Tubes (from bulkhead to Sump, and Sump to Bulkhead)
Sump (multi-chamber glass tank)
Coralife Super Protein Skimmer (Needle wheel)
Live Rock (20-30lbs)
Live Sand (How much?)
Stealth Aquarium Heater - 150 Watt
Danner Mag-Drive 500 Supreme Water Pump
Of course salt/test kit/termostate


So my main questions are:
1) What exactly do I do with the plumbing from the tank to the sump and sump to the tank? This is for a drilled tank. Anything I can do to hide as much as possible inside the Sump? Pictures would be great! Will a siphon overflow be necessary? What tool will be nessasary?
2) These are the basic tools I will need to start my tank cycling? Anything else of particular interest I should purchase? Is the "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Tap Water Filter" worth it or a more expensive one necessary? How much live sand will be needed for an aquarium this size (also for sump area)?



Thanks a bunch!

~code

 

[KahluaZzZ]

you'll need some teflon to secure your bulkheads to the tube.

This tool can be used :

. You can hide your algaes, heater, thermometer in the sump, your skimmer and any hardware you want, but if your return pump jam or die, well...you're screwed. Anyways with a super skimmer coralife, the skimmer must be in the sump. Better buy a reverse osmosis system for 100$ than a tap water filter, this one sucks big time. You will not really need live sand, the live rock will seed your substrate if you buy some dry sand. Buying LS is an accelerator, and sometimes gives you different creatures. If you still want some take like a tiny amount only.
To prevent backfiring from the tank to the sump, you might wanna try baffles in your sump, sealed with silicon. This way you can play with the water level, and if some water from the tank is going back to the sump, you'll have enough volume to handle the load.

 

[KahluaZzZ]

Be sure to check this site : Aquarium supplies, Fish food, Saltwater aquarium fish and aquarium filters from JLAquatics.com
They're from your province, lucky you

 

[codster]

Thanks KahluaZzZ;

Yes I have some plummbing tools already, I'll be sure to grab a little teflon.

So I will need no special devices connecting the drilled tank to the sump (just plumbing tube)? If the pump does fail is there any way to protect the lower (return) bulkhead to stop water from flowing back into the sump. The upper bulkhead will be fine (enough space in the sump to handle the overflow). Special tricks or 1-way tubing or something?

Be sure to check this site : Aquarium supplies, Fish food, Saltwater aquarium fish and aquarium filters from JLAquatics.com
They're from your province, lucky you

I was just at their store yesterday! Them and Big Al's Aquatics. Very friendly and helpful staff and 20mins via skytrain from downtown where I live. I plan on making my big purchases at J&L on their Boxing Day specials to lower the costs. Just want to determine if I will need any expensive devices to go between tank/sump (to act like an overflow in the hanging version of the aquarium).


Thanks!

~cody

EDIT: ahh no need for live sand your saying, just normal (cheaper) sand will do? and the live rock will do the rest?

EDIT2:
After reading up a bit more, I found a Standpipe weir/overflow design when the bulkhead goes through the side of the tank close to the top. System that matches my prill holes.

So assuming I do this (angle the elbow pipe up, so provide a Weir Standpipe overflow. What do i do with the return pipe? It is 6" from the top of the tank (way too much water will go from this into my sump if my pump fails). so I need to use special 1-way plumbing? Or perhaps run the pipe over the top of the water level... if this was required what was the purpose of the drilled return bulkhead if it's going to the top of the water anyway. Perhaps the water pump already handles this and will not let water flow through it that way? Any pictures of other peoples simular drill hole aqurium setup would be great!

I also see some lighting will be required for my live rock. And purchase a lid or overstand light equipment

 

[KahluaZzZ]

I miswrote i think..the plyers and teflon are used to secure the bulkhead to the tank, not the tubing.
First let's see you have your bulkhead, then attached to the bullhead you may wanna have a 90° Mipt x slip fitting. Then you need to glue your tubing to it. So bascically it should look like :

Now normal sand for hardware store will not really do. You need to have a silicate free sand, and going to get that in a hardware store is tough to find. Your best option might be ultra fine one like :

, but you'll find it at your pet store...i recall that bigals had deals on aragamax. Be sure to get the finest sand you can. Big grain leads to pollution problems, crap stuck in it etc. I am one of those who prefers deep sand beds, due to their beneficial denitrification. It means that if you have like a 3 inches bed of sand, some nitrate will be transformed in nitrogen, acting like porous live rock.
The link you provided in excellent, bookmark it, it's one of the best. Also you may wanna add Wetwebmedia, Aquarium, Pond, Marine and Freshwater Fish, reef tanks, and Aquatics Information.
Oh just read about your return pipe..there is this

, it's an anti-return valve, a little bit like the one used for air pumps. It's around 15 $ but it saves your carpet.

 

[Lorna]

Welcome to another Vancouverite.....from an ex-Vancouverite......

Like to see a site with a good share of Canucks on it.....

Sounds like you have done your homework.

 

[Mahamotorworks]

You are correct when you say you will have to angle the elbow on you over up. How high it is is what will define you water level. I would make your return the same height if not just a little higher then you Drain to your sump. If I wasnt at work I would draw you a pic of what you would be wanting to do.

MAHA

 

[codster]

Ahh thanks everyone! Yes my tank already has the Bulkheads in the glass (so I can not modifiy them).

MY TANK

RETURN BULKHEAD
I was doing research yesterday and my found the "Check-Valve" (one-way valve), like you said. With this my return bulkhead piping will be perfect:

1) This uses as little piping as possible.
2) If pump fails, the check-valve will not allow water to flood back into Sump
3) Very little piping in tank.
Only question I have is: What do I do in the tank? Should i include a gate (if the pump always is on, fish couldn't enter)? Should I put a ell PVC on it so I can control the flow direction? is this needed? or just the simple hole is fine? With maybe a gate over it? Or nothing over the return bulkhead?


FEED LINE
Again more research. I believe I have what I will be doing (wier standpipe type). Although I was reading up on duros and maybe do something with this?

What I Wanted...

Basically the hole completly submerged. I have a gate which would go over it already (came with the tank). I would angle it left as shown. It would be a nartual overflow (high up so not much could go thorugh it if pump failed).
PROBLEMS:
1) No way to control flow rate. Water would go into my sump at a fast speed... my return pump would not be able to match this... either the sump will overflow or the tank would (after a while). I have seen this setup before though... how do people do this, and prevent the overflow? In some LFS I have seen a feed line completely in the water?
Only way I can tell is if you have a powerful pump that can pump a lot faster than the water comming into the sump. Also this pump will have to have a water level detector to turn itself off and on so it doesn't pump the sump dry. Do water pumps have this water level detector? If no why not? Easier way to do this?


WHAT I WILL HAVE TO DO:

CASE 1:
Weir-Stand Pipe
1) Minimize both pipe needed + pipe in the tank! I like this very much.
2) No problem with overflow (want gets pumped into tank will go into sump thorugh weir pipe (angled up).
PROBLEM: Perhaps NOISE!
- The ell is very close, so perhaps the "water fall" noise will be very good. Although from the main pipe maybe we have problems
- Can run air line through pipe to reduce this "flushing" noise if I need to?

CASE II:
Weir w/ duros noise air line
1) same as above, little piping, less in tank.
2) would this do anything? The Tee would allow air to go in and out of the pipe... and perhaps reduce noise a lot like duros design.
3) This is good, with just a bit more piping? Any comments on this? Will the extra pipe help noise a lot or do not bother?

CASE III:
Proper duros design stand pipe (without overflow).
1) More pipe in the tank, which I do not like. Not much though.
I had to angle it up and then do the "durso ell down" pipe higher. This is because the water level will be around the middle of the pipe.
If i just did a down angled pipe at bulkhead, the water level would be 2" down (middle of bulkhead). This is not too bad.. but still I would like a full tank of water. So I had to pipe it up then down (an extra 1.5" of water level'ish (top))
It is worth it to do this? It is just 3 ell PCV's together. It would all be against the back wall (angled towards the cornor). So not much pipe at all. It would be a proper duros as well (without overflow chamber)
PROBLEMS:
Without the overflow chamber, the duros will NOT get the surface scum from the tank.... I do not like this much... the Wier type takes directly from the top and thus all scum goes directly into the skimmer. With duros angled down, water it comming from 0.5" deep from the surface (angled down). With no overflow chamber, the scum will stay there. Am I right?
What if I removed the final ell facing down (so it was just an ell facing vertically?) Would this reduce noise? This would also suck in surface scum?


What do you guys think I should do. Any ideas how others have the submersable feed bulkhead? What are the equipment needed for this? Which case do you think is best?

~code

 

[KahluaZzZ]

Yeah you should have a "gate". For 7 $, you can have a strainer a bit like this, but with a 90 degree curve

for your 1st diagram.
The durso is quieter ( ony reducing overflow noise,not the sump ), but you'll need to cover the intake with a gate. For your sump, the return pipe can be glued in a drilled tupperware with holes to reduce the noise. The tupperware could contain medias like rowaphos or purigen, it'll absorb the waterfall even better. So finally it could be used as a media reactor too and help reduce the noise. The case 3 your mentionned..the floating scum would be vaccumed too, your return pump is powerfull so it'll be trapped IMO.
In case 2 and 3, if you decide to go with it, the air hole can be covered with a mesh media, the air would still go in, but it would be even quieter.
There is always the possibily to find a float switch in hardware/plumbing store, but every time i tried to get one they were out of stock. There's a 65 $ float switch

and for about 100$ you can have the tunze auto top off kit, wich is better.
By the way if you continue to research like that, i dunno what you can do wrong. *twirlysmi