My new 30g tank!

Whiskers

Large Fish
Feb 29, 2008
425
1
18
central Michigan USA
#21
Here is something i found for you to read LtGtR2. I don't think you will have this situation but can happen, and some of this is kind of harsh but heres how it goes. Google is good :)


Cause: Unionized Ammonia (NH3)


Description:
Ammonia poisoning is one of the biggest killers of aquarium fish. It occurs most often when a tank is newly set up. However, it can also occur in an established tank when too many new fish have been added at one time, when the filter fails due to power or mechanical failure, or if bacterial colonies die off due to the use of medications or sudden change in water conditions.
Symptoms:
Fish gasp for breath at the water surface

Purple or red gills

Fish is lethargic

Loss of appetite

Fish lays at the bottom of the tank

Red streaking on the fins or body
Ammonia poisoning can happen suddenly, or over a period of days. Initially the fish may be seen gasping at the surface for air. The gills will begin to turn red or lilac in color, and may appear to be bleeding. The fish will being to lose its appetite and become increasingly lethargic. In some cases fish may be observed laying at the bottom of the tank with clamped fins.
As the damage from the ammonia poisoning continues, the tissues will be damaged as evidenced by red streaks or bloody patches that appear on the body and fins. Internal damage is occurring to the brain, organs, and central nervous system. The fish begins to hemorrhage internally and externally, and eventually dies.
Treatment:
Lower pH below 7.0

25 - 50% water change

Use chemical to neutralize ammonia

Discontinue or reduce feeding

If the ammonia level rises above 1 ppm as measured by a standard test kit, begin treatment immediately. Lowering the pH of the water will provide immediate relief, as will a 50% water change (be sure to use water that is the same temperature as the aquarium). Several water changes within a short period of time may be required to drop the ammonia to below 1 ppm.
If the fish are in severe distress, the use of a chemical to neutralize the ammonia is recommended. Feedings should be restricted so that additional waste is reduced. In cases of very high ammonia levels, feedings should be discontinued for several days. No new fish should be added until the tank until the ammonia and nitrite levels have fallen to zero.
Because ammonia toxicity is linked to the pH, testing of both ammonia and pH levels are critical. Ammonia becomes increasingly toxic as the pH rises above 7.0. Because there are so many variables, there is no magic number to watch for. However, there are general guidelines to follow.
At a level of level of 1 ppm or 1 mg/l, fish are under stress, even if they don't appear in acute distress. Levels even lower than that can be fatal if the fish are exposed continuously for several days. For that reason it is critical to continue daily testing and treatment until the ammonia drops to zero. When ammonia is elevated for a long period, it is not unusual to lose fish even after the ammonia levels start to drop.

Prevention:
Stock new tanks slowly

Feed sparingly and remove uneaten food

Change water regularly

Test water regularly to catch problems early

The key to avoiding fish death from ammonia poisoning is to avoid ammonia spikes in the first place. When starting a new tank, add only a couple of fish initially and do not add more until the tank is completely cycled. Even in an well established tank, only add a couple of new fish at a time and avoid overstocking.

Feed fish small quantities of foods, and remove any food not consumed in five minutes. Clean the tank weekly, taking care to remove an dead plants or other debris. Perform a partial water change at least every other week, more often in small heavily stocked tanks. Test the water for ammonia at least twice a month to detect problems before they become serious.

Anytime a fish appears to be ill, test for ammonia to rule out ammonia poisoning. If the filter stops, test for ammonia twenty-four hours later to ensure that the bacterial colonies that eliminate wastes were not affected.
 

LtGtR2

Large Fish
Jul 21, 2008
161
0
0
#22
Thank you whiskers! Good new though for who ever is following this thread! i did a 30% water change and did what whisker just posted and my ammonia levels are at 0! i did a Nitrite test and they are also at zero i also did a Nitrate test and that as well is zero, water is still a little cloudy and i am reducing the feeding so i am going to be observing and trying to get the pH down slowly. None of my fish really seem to have an affect and hopefully they will all be fine.

So far nothing but good news! i am going to continue cleaning the tank probably do a water change around the same time as yesterday except maybe a little less. I am also going to buy a pH up and down kit (if that makes sense) i had these little fizz tablets that are suppose to keep it from 7.2 8.0 which worked pretty well but they are expensive and the tank size just eats up the tablets like wild fire so.
 

epond83

Large Fish
Mar 11, 2007
483
0
0
#23
I wouldn't worry about pH levels, it's better to get it steady. I would just check ammonia and nitrite every day or so and do water changes to keep the levels in the safe range. Eventually the bacteria will take over and keep them at zero but it will take longer then if you did a fishless cycle since you have to keep doing water changes. Eventually nitrates will start to show up which as far less harmful and can be removed with regular water changes, also plants help with that.

Also I'm wondering if you did the test for ammonia right after the water change? How long did you wait... you have to wait a bit for the water to mix to get an accurate reading. Also if you tank is at 1ppm and if you chage out 30% with 0ppm (assuming your water has 0ppm ammonia) your total concentration should be around .5ppm, don't feel like doing the actual math but it won't be 0ppm.
 

Last edited:
Jun 29, 2008
490
0
0
PA
#24
suggestion

i agree that this sudden decrease in amonia while hopeful, may be a little unrealistic. especially since your water change was only 30%.

are you allowing the nitrite, nitrate, and amonia test tubes to settle for 5 mintues after mixing the cheimcals, BEFORE comparing them to the color coded charts?


The nitrate test especially is very involved. shaking the nitrate #2 bottle for 30 seconds and THEN mixing it in with the water sample which has the 1st bottle's proportions already added, and then shaking the whole water sample for at least 1 minute. Right after mixing and shaking the chemicals for my nitrate tube, the nitrate level would appear to be 10. but after letting it sit for 5 minutes, the level is actually 40.

this is just a suggestion but before you start using a lot of chemicals to regulate the amonia/ph, etc, maybe just let the tank naturally do its things?? by adding these chemiclas you are changing the end result of the problem, and not necessarily curing the problem itself.
 

LtGtR2

Large Fish
Jul 21, 2008
161
0
0
#25
I believe i did the tests correct, although i am going to test right before i do the water change today around 4-5pm. the ammonia level shocked me! it was not exactly 0 but had change a lot in color, and i let it sit for 5 minutes and then waited even longer because i was shocked! I did the water test yesterday around 4 or 5pm and i did the test this morning around 9am so i think i let plenty of time for the water and bacterias to mix and mingle. But like i said i could be wrong and the tests might of been faulty so before i do a 20%-30% water change again i am going to do the tests again.

Again, i am very thankful for all the support and troubleshooting that everyone is offering!

Thank you all,
Mike.
 

LtGtR2

Large Fish
Jul 21, 2008
161
0
0
#26
About adding plants to my tank... I am a little short on cash and if i add anything else i want to make sure it is done right, so expect me in about a week or to start a post about what are some beginner plants and how i can have some plant life in my tank!
 

Jul 22, 2008
9
0
0
#28
If i were you I would not change your water again today. I could be totally wrong on this it's just my opinion. Your tank is cycling and by doing large water changes on a regular basis you are going to slow that process down immensely which in turn means the fish are in a bad environment for a longer period of time. I have read about people doing smaller 10% daily while it's cycling with fish so at this point I would not do anything more than that and if you are sure you are under .5 ppm ammonia I would just let it cycle at this point and test every other day at the most just to be sure it stays below that. You are getting close, you don't want to start going in reverse by overcompensating. Other than that let nature take it's course in there and hope for the best.
 

LtGtR2

Large Fish
Jul 21, 2008
161
0
0
#32
Small update

Water Clarity: 80% (100% would be crystal clear!) [Was about 45% a few days ago for those following the thread.]

Ammonia: .25ppm (down from 1ppm)

Nitrate: Zero

Nitrite: Zero

Have done two 30% water changes, the fish are happy about it and the ammonia is going down so i am happy as well. I know some threads say not to feed the fish cause it can make it ammonia levels go up because of extra waste but if i am doing a water change and vacuuming the bottom i am not going to starve the poor fish =( they give me the sad face.

So good news is that none of the fish are *SICK*
So hopefully everything will keep going well! *thumbsups
 

Jun 29, 2008
490
0
0
PA
#33
Glad to see that the dangerously high amonia levels have come down.

If my hunch is correct, by doing those water changes you not only lowered the amonia, but may have also slowed down the cycling process (as evident by readings of 0 and 0 for nitrite and nitrate respectively). the amonia will probably rise again before the nitrites start coming up and then the nitrates in reponse will start coming up too. the tank will not be fully cycled until amonia and nitrite are both at 0, and nitrate is below 40.

At this point I would not do any more water changes and monitor your fish and the various (nitrite, nitrate, amonia) levels in the tank. Good luck!!
 

epond83

Large Fish
Mar 11, 2007
483
0
0
#34
Also i've heard gravel is a great place for bacteria and disturbing it durring your cycle is not the best idea, so hold off and major gravel cleaning 'till you are cycled. Tru either light cleaning or doing half each water change.

Is there any way you can get gravel or some sort of media cover in bacteria from an esablished tank? this would speed things up greatly.