New to this, need some advice, criticism

[LadyViolet]

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and this my first post. Yey! *BOUNCINGS

I've been 'keeping' fish for about 2-3 yrs, but to be honest I deserve a hearty smack on the wrist (or two) for the way I treated them. I inherited my first goldfish from a friend and he came in 1.5 ga tank, with no filtration whatsoever, just an air stone. I know, i know. *crazysmil
Somehow that goldfish, Mr. Biggs, survived for 2 yrs, even after I added a pleco. (By then I had a 2.5 ga tank and a small filter, but still too small)
Anyways, 7 guppies, 2 snails, and 1 bubble eyed goldfish later, I've finally learned something or two about fish keeping.... i think.

I recently go serious about keeping a healthy aquarium and I did my research and got a decent water test kit (not the quick dip strip kind). I bought a used 10 ga tank with a Penguin 100 Bio-wheel filter that came with crushed coral substrate. I also have an air strip and some sort of plant that's dying since my pleco took a liking to it.
Right now my 4 inch pleco (he's a hardy one) and my 2 inch red/golden ryukin are living there and they seem to be quite happy. Yes, and I know these two should not be kept together as their needs are totally different, but I just couldn't get rid of either one of them. Specially the pleco, since he's got a deformed/undeveloped pectoral fin (not from fin rot). The temperature stays around 70F which I figured is ok for both of them.
As far as water quality, I did a 20% water change last night and vacuumed the gravel, and nitrite is 0 ppm, nitrate is between 0 and 5.0 ppm, and ammonia is 0.50 ppm. pH was 7.8 so I added some Seachem pH Buffer and it went down to 7.5.

I also have a 1 in red cap oranda that i just bought and that is in quarantine in my old 2.5 ga tank. I've checked the water and it seems to be doing fine.

Ok, so here come the questions:

1) How long do I have to quarantine my oranda for? I've heard anywhere from 2 wks to a month.
2) How long does the air pump need to be running for? It seems so loud and stressing to the fish.
3) How long do the tank lights need to be on for? Do the fish need it or is it just for live plants?
4) Are there any plants that my pleco wont completely shred and that require low light?
5) I recently read a post about crushed coral substrate acting like a nitrate factory. Does anyone know anything about this? Does it apply only to seawater or to freshwater too?
6) How long can I keep both goldfish in the 10 ga tank for if I keep up with weekly water changes and don't overfeed them? I know the general rule is something like 30 ga per goldfish but I just do not have the room for a 40 or 55 ga tank in my tiny 2 bedroom appartment and both of them are still pretty small.

Whew. I think that's it for now. It's a pretty long post but I hope someone has the patience to read through it and give me some friendly advice.

Cheers! *PEACE!*

 

[mistercoffee]

I'd like to say you are doing better than alot of first posters, doing better than when I posted first. I had about 50inches of fish in a 10g with a pleco! So don't let anybody that gets hard on you let you down. It's a huge learning process.

As with your stock... what kind of pleco? If it's a common he's going to get so big he's going to knock stuff over. Goldfish are coldwater and pleco's are not.

I'm really happy though you know about gravel vacs, test kits, water changes, etc. I'm fairly new myself.

Since I've joined I've gotten a 2nd tank, a long 20g and that really helped with my stock (after half of them died). And also to separate my yellow gouramis.

 

[LadyViolet]

Thanks mistercoffee, I appreciate the support! It IS a huge learning process. I didn't know anything about fish when I first started except they breathe underwater and need to be fed! :S What I know now I leaned from a weekend of researching forums and advice pages.

My pleco is a common pleco and I know now that he's gonna get *HUGE*. I just didn't want to get rid of him because he's been with me since I started about 3 yrs ago. I've considered returning him to the pet store but I don't know if they'll take him (nevermind not flushing him down the toilet) since he's got an undeveloped lateral fin. He's pretty healthy though so maybe a local 'mom and pop' pet store will take him.

 

[mistercoffee]

Thanks mistercoffee, I appreciate the support! It IS a huge learning process. I didn't know anything about fish when I first started except they breathe underwater and need to be fed! :S What I know now I leaned from a weekend of researching forums and advice pages.

My pleco is a common pleco and I know now that he's gonna get *HUGE*. I just didn't want to get rid of him because he's been with me since I started about 3 yrs ago. I've considered returning him to the pet store but I don't know if they'll take him (nevermind not flushing him down the toilet) since he's got an undeveloped lateral fin. He's pretty healthy though so maybe a local 'mom and pop' pet store will take him.

How big is the pleco now? I don't think you have anything to worry about with him for awhile because they grow pretty slow, I believe anyway.

Yeah I used to hate fish actually, until back in August my fiance really wanted to get some coi... (so happy we didn't stupidly pick up one of those lol). I was like hmm ok, I'm unemployed and can take care of them, should be alright. Few months later I got MTS. Now we're talking about breeding fish. Lol go figure.

 

[jo3olous]

the gold fish don't grow extraordinarily fast either, they should hit 3-5 inches pretty fast then slow down a bunch. Same with the pleco too. What you should worry about is the longer you keep them in the small tank (by long i mean years), the more you hamper their potential to grow healthy and live longer. I mean you only have 3 fish and I don't know how badly keeping them in a 10G will stunt their growth/life span, but it could be significant.

I would say you have a good year or 2 to decide what you want to do as far as getting a larger tank or giving them away, but just be concerned with their growth rates. I would actually feel better if they manage to outgrow the tank, then that means theyre happy and doing well, just running out of room lol.

Welcome to the tank

 

[Chris_A]

Ok, so here come the questions:

1) How long do I have to quarantine my oranda for? I've heard anywhere from 2 wks to a month.
2) How long does the air pump need to be running for? It seems so loud and stressing to the fish.
3) How long do the tank lights need to be on for? Do the fish need it or is it just for live plants?
4) Are there any plants that my pleco wont completely shred and that require low light?
5) I recently read a post about crushed coral substrate acting like a nitrate factory. Does anyone know anything about this? Does it apply only to seawater or to freshwater too?
6) How long can I keep both goldfish in the 10 ga tank for if I keep up with weekly water changes and don't overfeed them? I know the general rule is something like 30 ga per goldfish but I just do not have the room for a 40 or 55 ga tank in my tiny 2 bedroom appartment and both of them are still pretty small.

Hi, I just wanted to say first off you seem to be on the right track. Education and learning in general are the first step and it sounds like your at least starting to do your homework . Congrats!

(I like lists lol)
1) 3-4 weeks is a good rule of thumb. Try to keep the temp and water conditions the same as the other tank too.
2)24/7. What type of air pump do you have? There are LOTS on the market that are very quiet.
3)What type of lighting do you have? (if fluor. what type of lamp?)
4)Depending on the answer above, Java Fern might be a good one to try...
5)The possible problems with nitrate and substrate are actually more about substrate depth. The smaller the grain size then a shallow bed can cause problems. Large gravel needs to be pretty deep to cause an issue. If you can measure a grain I might be able to recommend an appropriate depth. How deep is it now? With CC I've heard rumors it can "suck up" and re-release nitrates but I haven't seen a shread of scientific study to support it. Without getting into the chemistry, that CAN be a problem with copper and phosphates.
6) Ya know... I'm not really sure. Been literally almost 2 decades since I had goldfish of any kind . Maybe someone with more experience can answer that one.

Chris

 

[Kissyboots]

Here's what I can answer:

2) How long does the air pump need to be running for? It seems so loud and stressing to the fish. My air pump is on the same time as my lights, but it really depends on what you want to do and what your fish prefer.

3) How long do the tank lights need to be on for? Do the fish need it or is it just for live plants? Fish need light. I have mine running from around 8:30am to 6:00pm.

6) How long can I keep both goldfish in the 10 ga tank for if I keep up with weekly water changes and don't overfeed them? I know the general rule is something like 30 ga per goldfish but I just do not have the room for a 40 or 55 ga tank in my tiny 2 bedroom appartment and both of them are still pretty small. When a fish is in a tank that’s too small for their adult size, the organs will grow but the fish will not. That can result in undesirable situations…so if you can’t fit a larger tank, I would get rid of the goldfish and replace them with fish that will actually work.

Also, try not to mess with your pH too much. Or at all actually. The fish is just fine as long as the pH is stable. Mine is around 7.6 every single time I test.

You're ammonia seems a little high. It should be at 0. Try some 50% water changes until it goes away or atleast decreases.

Just to let you know, the a good rule to follow is the "1 inch of fish per gallon of water" using adult sizes. I'm not sure how big your goldfish would get, but the pleco can get up to 12 inches. That rule is flexible, but just keep an eye on your parameters (ammonia and such.)

Anyway, looks like you're off to a good start! Welcome to the tank!

 

[FroggyFox]

as for how long you can keep those three together in a 10g, there isn't a set time. No one is going to say "ok in 3 months you'll need to do something". There are two major things that will decide this. Water quality and swimming space. Your critters may have good water, but if they can't move they'll probably not be entirely happy. Generally speaking a 20 gallon or a 29 gallon tank is not going to take up much more room than your 10...I would suggest keeping your eye out for a 29 and jumping on it. That will give your three a fair amount of time before things start getting dicey.

You'll find that one water change a week is not going to go real far for two goldfish and a pleco in a 10g tank after awhile.

You should quarentine the new goldfish just long enough to be sure that it doesn't have anything that its going to pass on to the other fish. A lot of people don't quarentine new fish at all.

You should read up on pH (I think maybe we have an faq written up about it?), as long as your pH is stable, you dont need to worry about what it is. Your fish will appreciate it if you just leave it alone

As long as you have a filter on the tank, the air pump does not need to run at all and neither does the light. Your fish don't actually need light Although its difficult to enjoy a dark tank so I usually turn the lights on during the day and off at night. The lights do matter if you have plants.

Crushed coral tends to buffer the water and make the pH go up...but shouldn't be a drastic difference. If you are noticing it does more than you want it to, you could always change it out.

 

[Kissyboots]

Your fish don't actually need light

Really? Huh, ignore me then. . I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. Hehe.

 

[FroggyFox]

you know plenty kb Yeah, they dont need a light. I have a 55 downstairs that hasn't had lights on it since I got it a few years ago. Trying to fix that, but just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[Kalavek]

As long as you have a filter on the tank, the air pump does not need to run at all and neither does the light. Your fish don't actually need light Although its difficult to enjoy a dark tank so I usually turn the lights on during the day and off at night. The lights do matter if you have plants.

Hmmm, having a filter means no bubbles needed? Is this assuming the return water is breaking the surface and pulling air down into the water?

Lights - perhaps they don't need lights to survive, but won't they be happier and healthier with a light on a timer? If not, won't you be happier being able to see them? Just my own opinion, but if I were to run a tank without lighting, I would at least put the tank in a place that gets some light from outside.

Is anyone here a licensed fish psychologist, by chance?

 

[FroggyFox]

Hmmm, having a filter means no bubbles needed? Is this assuming the return water is breaking the surface and pulling air down into the water?

Yes. If someone was running a traditional undergravel filter using airstones for water movement then an air pump would need to be running. Other than that technically nothing would HAVE to happen. Generally though just the output water of a filter breaking the surface is plenty. In planted tanks that have c02 injected into the water, less surface agitation is better. There is a normal gas exchange rate, so there is still oxygen in water with no surface agitation. In some cases (like when the temperature is really high) we want to increase the surface agitation (not movement, but the amount of times that the surface of the water is broken) to increase the oxygen in the water so we turn on bubbles or lower our water levels so that the output breaks the surface more. Some people just like having bubbles because they like the way they look. But in most cases they are not necessary...so if the sound of the pump is driving you crazy...turn it off

Lights - perhaps they don't need lights to survive, but won't they be happier and healthier with a light on a timer? If not, won't you be happier being able to see them? Just my own opinion, but if I were to run a tank without lighting, I would at least put the tank in a place that gets some light from outside.

Thats why I said its difficult to enjoy a tank w/o lights, but they do not NEED the light on the tank to survive. My parents keep their pondfish in a big tub in their garage boiler room over the winter.

Is anyone here a licensed fish psychologist, by chance?

Not that I know of... Pretty sure a fish's 'happiness' is something that we project on to them. Their health is all we can really go by.

 

[brian1973]

The only thing I can add is that as Mister coffee said..Pleco's are tropical, goldfish coldwater..so 70 degree temps really isnt ideal.

Welcome to the tank.

 

[mistercoffee]

The only thing I can add is that as Mister coffee said..Pleco's are tropical, goldfish coldwater..so 70 degree temps really isnt ideal.

Welcome to the tank.

damn right address me as Mister! *BOUNCINGS

 

[brian1973]

damn right address me as Mister! *BOUNCINGS

do u have to derail another thread... MISSEScoffee...lol

 

[mistercoffee]

do u have to derail another thread... MISSEScoffee...lol

So, um, fish?

 

[Kalavek]

So, um, fish?

Well, so much for first impressions!

But welcome, Lady V. I recommend a second tank, to separate your coldwater fish from your tropical fish.

Actually, everyone here recommends a second tank. And a third. After that you'll get yourself in more trouble than we can get you into ourselves.

This is all assuming you have not run off after your second post. Are you still there?

 

[LadyViolet]

Well, so much for first impressions!

But welcome, Lady V. I recommend a second tank, to separate your coldwater fish from your tropical fish.

Actually, everyone here recommends a second tank. And a third. After that you'll get yourself in more trouble than we can get you into ourselves.

This is all assuming you have not run off after your second post. Are you still there?

LOL. Yeah, I'm still here, you didn't scare me off!

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone that's dropped by to give me some advice or just to 'introduce' themselves. Couldn't believe I'd gotten so many replies to my first post! And sorry I've MIA. My husband and I were sick this week and I was really in no mood to get on the computer.
I really appreciate everyone's advice and will take it all into consideration. Right now I'm trying to deal with high nitrites. I guess my tank was cycling and I didn't notice. I thought I had enough good bacteria in there. Anyways, I did a couple of large water changes, vacuumed, and added this product that reduces nitrite (which worked!) and my fish seem to be doing better. The goldfish doesn't look listless anymore. Unfortunately while the nitrite was high (like, 24hrs or so) what looks like a fungal infection broke out in the tank. The goldfish lost a small part of his tail and it's partly frayed now, and the pleco had a thin layer of fluffy, spotted, web-like 'mucus' on him. I used an anti-fungal medication and it cleared up pretty quick but I'm gonna keep using it for a couple days to make sure I get all of it.
If anyone knows if this could be something other than a fungus let me know! I really appreciate everyone's helpful input!

*PEACE!*

 

[Kalavek]

You didn't mention the names of the products you are using to "reduce" the nitrite, or the medication you used for what is assumed to be a fungus. You will find a lot of people are very resistant to the use of chemicals or medications for a variety of reasons. Frequent water changes (daily if needed) are usually recommended over anything that claims to control chemical levels, with very few exceptions.

One thing I don't believe has been mentioned in this thread is the product Prime - which I personally hope you are using to dechlorinate the water you're putting in your tank.

At any rate the best advice I can offer is countless hours of research - Google can be your best friend in regards to this. Any time you spot a product that claims to fix or control something, you should look through as many forums and websites as you can looking for warnings or recommendations. Find out when you should use it, and when you should not.

Most of the products on the shelf today have been put through the wringer already, and the results can often be found with a few good keyword searches - if there isn't a majority in favor of a product, or it seems like nobody can decide if it is good or bad, then proceed with caution.

 

[LadyViolet]

What a coincidence. The product I used to help reduce nitrites and dechlorinate my water is Prime. And I don't substitute 'using product' for water changes.

As far as the fungal infection goes, I used RidGungus by Kordon. I didn't really research it so I'm not sure what's the reviews are on it, but the 'fungus' has cleared up, whether it's the product or just the better water quality, I don't really care! I'm just happy they seem to be doing better.