Help!! Beat up Platies

[sphex]

(****I put a summary at the bottom, if you don't have time to read the whole post!****)

Hello everyone- I hope I can get some good advice here- my heart is racing and I'm in a bit of a panic mode. This is long, for which I apologize, but I want to get all the relevant info in, so hopefully someone can help me!

I'm new to this whole fishkeeping thing, but I'm diligent, and have done tons of online research... but I've been unable to find information on how to deal with this.

I have a 5 gallon planted tank, with an aquaclear mini filter. It's been cycled for 3 weeks (fishless cycling method) and since it's been cycled I've added 5 dwarf sunset platies. (3, and then two weeks later when i saw that the levels were all good and holding, I added two more- all 5 are female). Water changes (I use Prime and a bit of salt) are once or twice a week- no more than 6 days between them, usually just 4. Levels have consistently been ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrAte generally 5 or 10, once 15. (I measure almost every day, and before and after every water change- hey, I'm still new, and i'm obsessive.)

So on Monday I noticed one of the fish was flashing a bit against a plant, so I did a 2 gal water change (the previous had been 3 gal on Thursday) and was keeping a close eye on them. I thought she maybe had gill flukes.

I had the intake end of the filter covered with a stocking b/c I bought it used and it didn't have the extension. The stocking got really gunked up, and the filter was straining, and the fish all looked good, and I read that healthy fish won't get sucked up by a filter... so I took it off, and on Tuesday on my way home from work bought some Jungle Parasite clear to treat the gill flukes.

when I got home... two fish had gotten sucked up into the filter!! I rescued them, and one of them was pretty beat up- scraped looking. The other seemed ok. I put the stocking back on, but cut a small hole in it about the size of this 'o' (because the tank water was awfully cloudy since I'd dumped the dirty filter water with fish in there). They hid for a while, but then (within 12 hours or so) started acting pretty normally, although the more beat-up one was hanging out at the top of the tank a little more than previously. Not gasping, just hanging out there. Overall looking ok. I added the correct dosage of the Jungle Parasite clear, and nobody was flashing any more...

... and then today (Wednesday) another one got sucked up! THROUGH the teeny hole in the stocking! She's beat up, also. I feel terrible!!!

So now nobody is flashing (I guess they have bigger problems! ) But I'd like to treat with some kind of antibacterial to prevent possible infection... and I don't know if I should continue the Jungle parasite treatment or not.

On hand (between what I had and my panicked trip to the pet store) I have: maracyn I and II, CopperSafe, Triple Sulfa, and some antibacterial food. Oh, and I bought a new filter JUST FOR THE EXTENSION... so nobody else will get sucked up.

Help us, please!!

Okay, I just re-read and thought I should try to summarize:

5 gallon cycled tank
5 dwarf platies (all female)
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 5

3 fish sucked into filter, 2 pretty beat up and scraped looking.

Question 1) How to treat to prevent infection?
Question 2) Continue with Jungle Parasite clear or no??

Thank you in advance, everyone. i've already learned so much on this forum without ever posting...

What to do???

 

[iapetus]

Well, I'm not exactly sure how you should proceed. But, I do have at least one question: how sure are you that your platies are ill? I couldn't quite tell from your post.

I would caution against medicating needlessly, so I'd want to make sure that I'm doing so for good reason.

 

[sphex]

Hi iapetus, thank you for the quick reply. The two of them are seriously scraped. Parts of where they used to be bright orange they are now almost white. Should I just let them be? I'm really afraid of infection. I'll try to get a picture, but they're small and my camera doesn't zoom in very close...

At this point I don't know about the gill flukes. Two of them were definitely doing the scraping thing, against plants, against gravel... but I haven't seen more of that. I just didn't know if there was a problem with discontinuing meds before the full course, like antibiotics in humans...

 

[iapetus]

Well, if you're pretty sure that there was something wrong, I think you're right to continue with the medication until they're done. I don't suppose you've got a hospital tank you can use?

Use something that will help them maintain their slime coat. That is, I would think, the best means of helping them fend off infection.

And, I'd also wait to get some more opinions ...

 

[sphex]

Thank you! Any suggestions on what (besides salt) heps with the slime coat? (I don't have a hospital tank, but suppose I could invest in one of those small 1 gal ones)

... and I'll try to patiently wait for some more opinions too...

(((worried!))))

 

[DesignsOnYou]

I think that a lot of people use Melafix. I know someone (brian I think) doesn't like it, but from what I remember I think it was mainly due to the smell. It's supposed to be all natural and help with all sorts of things, including healing and generating slime coat I think. I don't know if you have to remove carbon to use it, but you're probably doing that anyway. I think it can probably be used in conjunction with other things, but again, you'd want to read up on it to make sure. Just an option. Sorry to hear about your fish.

 

[iapetus]

I think that a lot of people use Melafix. I know someone (brian I think) doesn't like it, but from what I remember I think it was mainly due to the smell. It's supposed to be all natural and help with all sorts of things, including healing and generating slime coat I think.

I was also going to suggest a combination of MelaFix and PimaFix, but I suppose that I was waiting for someone else to offer the suggestion first.

I think that brian is more against needlessly medicating and feels that people are too quick to do it. OTOH, I would say that MelaFix and PimaFix are organic and aren't really all that strong, so I think it would have less (negative) impact. It's not like you're adding anything all that harsh to the tank. Still, sphex, I'd take these considerations into account before adding it to your tank.

Actually, I quite like the smell of both MelaFix and PimaFix.

 

[TMony]

I think that a lot of people use Melafix. I know someone (brian I think) doesn't like it, but from what I remember I think it was mainly due to the smell. It's supposed to be all natural and help with all sorts of things, including healing and generating slime coat I think. I don't know if you have to remove carbon to use it, but you're probably doing that anyway. I think it can probably be used in conjunction with other things, but again, you'd want to read up on it to make sure. Just an option. Sorry to hear about your fish.

Yes, remove the carbon from your filter if possible before treating with Melafix and/or Pimafix. Otherwise you will be wasting your meds as they will be removed by the carbon. Hope they get better soon!

 

[sphex]

thanks, everyone. I guess I'll pick up some Melafix to help with healing the scrapes. I was a little biased against it b/c I've had a bad experience with melaleuca (the active ingredient) and one of my bettas. (That story had a happy ending, luckily). But I'll get over my bias since everyone seems to agree that Melafix is the way to go.

Carbon was removed the other day before adding the Jungle Parasite Clear, so I'm good on that front.

Do people think I should continue with the parasite clear? Or should I try to fix one thing at a time?

Thanks, everyone for your help.

Petite Platy (the last one sucked up) has ventured out from behind the airstone, so I'm optimistic...

 

[TMony]

Good Luck, hopefully you will have some good news in a couple of days.

 

[sphex]

Bump!

So... the first two platies that got sucked up into the filter seem to be doing ok, they're acting quite normal, even though they don't look so hot. But the third one that got sucked up and beat up (the one I call petite platy) is still hiding, almost motionless, on the gravel behind the air stone. She does come out occasionally (to eat, for example), but I'm still worried. I *did* dose with melafix and stress coat, per the suggestions made here, but I just wanted to bump this thread up and see if anyone else had any words of wisdom?

Thanks, everyone!

 

[iapetus]

Do people think I should continue with the parasite clear? Or should I try to fix one thing at a time?

Well, to be honest, I think I would have just finished up with this first before adding MelaFix or PimaFix. Sorry if I didn't explicitly say that. It sounds like you were almost done with the first treatment, no?

Anyways, are the fish still exhibiting the same syptoms that caused you to start up with the Parasite Clear?

She does come out occasionally (to eat, for example), but I'm still worried.

Eating is always a good sign! *thumbsup2

 

[Avalon]

5 platys for a 5g tank is too much. Any tank doesn't get a true water capacity of stated volume. You might have 3.5 gallons of actual water. The flashing is likely ich, not gill flukes; gill flukes are typically a problem with wild caught fish, not farm raised. Ich always resides in the gills first, even if an outbreak does not occur, and you should always suspect your new fish have ich.

When fish are weak, stronger fish will take advantage and beat them to death in order to establish dominance, a pecking order, and territory--male or female. This is probably happening while you aren't looking (it almost always happens that way). Fish don't simply get sucked up into a filter. They get beat up and that's where they can typically end up. In short, the healthier fish are correcting the overpopulation problem.

The survivors will heal on their own. Simply keep clean conditions and oxygenated water, and with a good diet they'll be fine.

 

[iapetus]

5 platys for a 5g tank is too much.

That's what I thought, too. But, then dwarf platies were mentioned. I suppose that's too tight even for dwarf platies.

The flashing is likely ich, not gill flukes; gill flukes are typically a problem with wild caught fish, not farm raised. Ich always resides in the gills first ...

Good to know.

 

[sphex]

Hi Avalon-
thanks for the adivce! I've had a betta with Ich before... and I see no external signs- but thank you for the tip, I'll keep a close eye on them, and raise the temps and up the salt as a preventive measure. I also have Ich guard if necessary.

5 platys for a 5g tank is too much.

Just to clarify, these are 5 DWARF platies. Are you really sure they're too much of a load for my tank? They're currently about 3/4" inch, and full grown they'll be just over an inch. I'm very good with keeping the water parameters very safe (0 am, 0 NI, and 5-10 NitrAte) , and the tank is heavily planted to provide everyone with a hiding place if they want it or need it. I did a lot of research before purchasing the last two dwarf platies, because it's really important to me to be a good, responsible fish owner. I had read that the 1" per gallon rule was just a guideline (e.g., a five inch goldfish would be miserable in that tank), and that other considerations needed to be taken into account. After all the "possible 5 gallon stocking" postings I'd read, I felt confident that I wasn't doing the fish any disservice by keeping 5 small, peaceful, non-schooling, conspecifics in the tank... (in fact, I'd really wanted some neon tetras, but didn't get them because it sounded like even with a small school of 5, their swimming habits really required something bigger)

Please do let me know. It's too late for now, but I'm still learning, and will keep it in mind for the future.... I have a funny feeling this won't be my last tank.

cheers.

 

[Avalon]

The old 1" of fish per gallon rule isn't a rule, it's a suggestion. With schooling fish like tetras, it may be ok, but many fish demand very large territories. A simple 2" fish may demand a meter diameter of space. Platies are usually known for being peaceful, but weak fish of any species in any space are simply not welcome. Many adult platies can be aggressive; it can depend upon the individual personalities (fish do have 'personalities' per say...it would be incorrect to classify them as a group if group nature is not an essential attribute of the species). The labeling of "dwarf" doesn't modify the aggression potential gene, only the size gene.

If I were you with a 5g tank, I would either satisfy myself with few fish, get 'dedicated' schooling fish, or keep a single fish. I reserve my own 29g for a single apisto (Triple Orange Cacatuoides) . He's shy, and any other fish besides schooling, docile fish (like tetras), would keep him in isolation (tetras would serve as 'dither fish'). He's too beautiful of a fish to keep in hiding. I used to keep mollies, and those little buggers would get downright mean!

I tell ya, don't force nature. The cool thing about aquariums is observation of nature. You can learn a lot just by watching your fish. With experience, you'll find out what works and what doesn't. Don't fret over it--learn from it. As for any meds, Jungle meds suck. They don't work well enough to actually be effective. If you suspect ich without an actual outbreak, focus on fish health--clean, oxygenated water. Fish can beat ich, and ich will die out eventually, about 60 days. Since you have a planted tank, focus on the plants as well. Optimal planted tanks are very much in line with the optimal parameters of fish.

 

[sphex]

Since it's always nice to hear good news, I just thought I'd give an update on the dwarf platies sucked up into the filter...

Everyone pulled through. Petite Platy hid for a couple of days behind the airstone, coming out only to eat, but is now back in business and acting normally. She's quite thin, but eating, and she always was smaller than the others. (hence the name!)

Pregnant Platy (I'm not sure she's pregnant, but she's the roundest of the bunch) who had always been a bit of a bully before she got sucked up into the filter, is back to being a bit of a bully.

'dark' of a pair-of-platies (the third one who got sucked up) has been acting normally almost since the moment I saved her.

So, all's well that ends well. Thank you everyone, for your help. I'm keeping my eye on them still- there is a wee bit of flashing but only very occasionally. Overall they are acting pretty happy. Which makes me happy!

Cheers.

 

[MissFishy]

The flashing really isn't anything to be worried about unless it's excessive and the fish are scraping themselves. I think your tank is a tad bit overstocked, even though they are dwarf platies. Keep an eye on the water parameters and they should be fine, just don't add anything else unless you want to upgrade. Also, salt isn't necessary, you can cut that out. Good luck

 

[sphex]

Thank you, Miss Fishy! I'll try not to worry about the flashing. Although I'm a worrier, by nature.

The good news about me being a worrier is that I check my water parameter at least once a day, and am obsessive about water changes.

I don't intend to add anything to this tank... and I've been trying to avoid eyeing the 28 gallon tanks at the store! This fish thing is more addictive than I'd anticipated!

Thanks again...

 

[TMony]

You'll be eyeing the 55 gallon before you know it
Glad to hear they are all back on track and feeling better.
I think you might be a tad overstocked, but with your diligent attention to the water conditions, they will be fine.
Take care*thumbsups