Trying to keep fish alive through a cycle NEED HELP

[widebody2]

Hi guys. I have had fish tanks on and off for my whole life but have never really done things the right way. Never tested the water, just always chenged the water every once in a while. Now I am actually trying to do it right.

I have a tank that has been up and running for maybe 3 weeks. I have 2 parrots, an oscar, golden sevrum, geo jupari, one small fan tail goldfish, and 2 cray fish. All the fish are small and the crayfish are tiny and get beat up by the parrots. The tank is a 120 gallon and I am using an eheim canister 2217 filter.

I used 1 bottle of cycle. My ammonia is at a 2.0 and has gone from a 1 to a 2 in about 2 days. I don't really know if that is high or not but it worried me that it doubled in 2 days....up untill recently it was testing at zero since all the water was fresh.

Nitrites are still at or very close to zero.

Nitrates zero.

Is a 2 ppm of ammonia a dangerous amount? I have a bottle of prime...should I be using that. I was worried about prolonging the cycle by using but do not want my fish to die if I could avoid that.

How much prime do you guys recommend if at all precycle?

What types of ammonia and nitrite readings should I be seeing before the nitrates start? How long typically?

Thanks guys

 

[Lotus]

You should definitely try to keep ammonia below 1 ppm through water changes. Prime will help somewhat, but water changes are essential. You have a fairly large bioload (bigger fish, which produce a lot of waste), so you may find yourself doing daily water changes. If you do a 50% water change, you'll get the ammonia down to 1 ppm, and some Prime will help detoxify the other 1 ppm.

You should realize that Prime detoxifies the ammonia, it doesn't remove it, so you still may get a positive reading for ammonia after adding Prime.

 

[Chris_A]

Just my opinion but I would ditch the Cycle... It's made by the detroit water treatment plant for use on solid waste. Hagen just repacks it under the false pretense that it will help the cycle along by breaking down solid waste to produce more "food" for the bacteria. So far as where it comes from... That's straight from the mouth of a Hagen Rep., lol only one I ever trusted . Now that was 8 years ago, I'm prepared to be wrong if they changed it in any way, but I don't think so.

The actual nitrogen fixing bacteria we are looking for is "classed" as omnipresent, meaning you'll get it in the tank one way or another from any number of places. It's everywhere.

Chris

 

[TMony]

Definitely keep up on the water changes to lower the ammonia levels. Every day would be best, but every other day at a minimum. Keep the water changes going even after the ammonia levels drop until the nitrite levels also zero out. Before adding your new water, treat it with Prime (as directed on the bottle). You'll make it through just fine.
Best of luck!

 

[MissFishy]

I agree with the opinion that the product "cycle" is crap. It won't do a thing for your cycle. I suggest massive water changes to get the ammonia below 1.0 ppm, that's the lowest level you can have and have your fish have a chance to survive long term. You'll have to check the ammonia levels daily as you have a large bioload in that tank and the levels may skyrocket. I hope you have a python for all those water changes!

As a side note...the goldfish doesn't really belong in that mix. Goldfish are cold water fish, not tropical. What temp are you keeping this tank at?

 

[blue_ram]

If the test results are accurate, buy some Ammo-chips and put them in a filter bag near water flow for about 8 hours and remove (I blieve 8 hours is the max because the ammonia eating bacteria will starve and die if left in there longer.). It will drop your ammonia level to 0 and give the nitrite > nitrate converting bacteria time to catch up. My tanks cycle within a week doing this. I do not use prime or ammo lock because they cause bad readings on the test kits.

ammo-chips aka zeolite will remove the ammonia from the water, not neutralize it and if used in small quatities and for short periods of time it will not interfere with the cycle. When you remove the ammo-chips, you remove the ammonia with it.

The only draw back on using ammo chips is that it will add sodium ions to the water, but this in gerneral is not harmful to fish.


Alternatively, you could drop a few potted amazon swords in the tank and they will mop up the excess ammonia.

 

[widebody2]

So its been 9 days. I have changed water about every day...maybe 15%-20% each change. I add prime every change and just added more salt today. My ammonia looks like it is still at a 2.0 but it has not gone up at all and my fish still seem healthy.

For the first time I got some nitrite readings...I believe a 2.0....still have no nitrate and my ph is at 6.8 which is right where I want it for my fish.

My plan is to continue just what I am doing...water changes every day with prime and some salt. When will I see nitrate? Once I see nitrate I can slow down with the water changes?

What levels of nitrite are dangerous for fish?

 

[homebunnyj]

IF your ammonia reading is accurate, you need to do a 50% water change ASAP to get the ammonia down to 1.0, the highest 'safe' level for fish. However, the Prime may be causing a false reading. Symptoms of ammonia poisoning would include gasping at the surface, reddish gills, and later on red streaks on the fins and/or body.

The nitrite level should not be allowed to go over 1.0. Also, please do not adjust your pH with chemicals. Leave it alone. Steady pH is important for fish health, a specific pH only really matters if you're trying to breed certain fish that will only spawn under the right conditions. (Later on, when things are stabilized, if you think you need to adjust your pH, post up and we can discuss some natural, stable ways to do it.)

Once the cycle is complete (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, some nitrate), you'll want to ditch the salt. There's no benefit in it, and your South American fish will really appreciate its not being in there.

 

[brian1973]

IF your ammonia reading is accurate, you need to do a 50% water change ASAP to get the ammonia down to 1.0, the highest 'safe' level for fish. However, the Prime may be causing a false reading. Symptoms of ammonia poisoning would include gasping at the surface, reddish gills, and later on red streaks on the fins and/or body.

The nitrite level should not be allowed to go over 1.0. Also, please do not adjust your pH with chemicals. Leave it alone. Steady pH is important for fish health, a specific pH only really matters if you're trying to breed certain fish that will only spawn under the right conditions. (Later on, when things are stabilized, if you think you need to adjust your pH, post up and we can discuss some natural, stable ways to do it.)

Once the cycle is complete (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, some nitrate), you'll want to ditch the salt. There's no benefit in it, and your South American fish will really appreciate its not being in there.

I am only going to add to what was said here..or maybe clarify...your ammonia reading may be accurate but the type of ammonia is what matters, using prime you should be converting NH3 (bad) to NH4 (safe), so basically unless you have test lits for each kind of ammonia then we really cant answer what you have to do. Thats the bad thing about using chemicals..you really dont know what is going on once you have added them.

As for PH the best way I have seen it explained is to compare it to humidity for us, while a high or low humidty isnt ideal for everyone we can all handle it once we adapt and even humans do worse physically going from one humidty extreme to the other in small time frames. So basically DO NOT mess with your PH unless as was already stated you are trying to breed, even then hardness comes into play more than PH I believe, PH swings WILL kill fish, I almost never test the PH of my tanks.

Salt absolutely not needed, I personally wouldnt even use it now.

I would be looking for a product called safe start by tetra, it is the replacement to BIO Spira, which possibly can help speed your cycle up by adding the bacteria to the tank.

I'm not sure about the rating of that filter but from my own recent search for canister filters I think you may be a bit low on filtration for your future bioload, I am guessing each of these fish are relatively small still, so you still have a few months until that is a concern.

I think thats about all I can add or expand on...Good luck.

EDIT: One more thing on the salt issue, unless you have a hydrometer you can bring the salinity of your tank to a toxic level if you are adding everytime you do a water change since you dont actually know how much your readding and what was removed.

Also I read thru the original thread on this tank..I believe this is the in wall tank? Please ditch the idea for adding the arowana and definately the Red tailed cat...both of those get to large for this tank.. most sites list 240G as minimum for an arowana and the redtail cat shouldnt even be sold to most hobbiest IMO as it can exceed 4ft in length..

 

[widebody2]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I appreciate all your help.


My filter is an eheim 2217 and is supposed to be rated for 160 gallons. Are these filter ratings vastly exaggerated or are they pretty accurate?


I have not been using the salt during every water change, only once every 3 or 4 changes and way less than what it says on the side of the box. When I originally filled the tank I did use the recommended salt amount, which seemed like an awful lot to me.


So I tested yesterday. It has been 5 days since my last water test. My ammonia is now at zero so the cycle actually is happening, thank God. The nitrite reading is very difficult to read. To me it could be anywhere from a 1 to a 5!!! But if I were to guess I'd say a 3. My nitrates were at a 5.

How quickly do the nitrites go down to zero after you start getting nitrate readings?

The high nitrite reading has me a little concerned but I am hoping it is just for a very short time. I added a little extra prime yesterday after I saw the high reading. The fish still look really healthy.

About the redtail catfish and arowana...maybe I'll skip on the arowana but I have to get the catfish. I've had them many times in the past. They are my favorite fish and half the reason I did the tank in the first place.

My plan is to get all very small fish then try to limit their growth by limiting their food...we will see how that works.