Help with Cycling (with fish)

[EnyaGirl]

Hello all-

I would like to give you a brief history of the tank that I am taking care of, and ask suggestions/opinions about my current tank situation.

I inherited a 55-gallon f/w tank when I took my new job here back in July. The girl that I replaced had previously taken care of it, and I knew *nothing* about fish, and didn't think taking care of an aquarium was all that involved. About a month after being here, the tank sprang a leak. I had to completely drain and re-seal the tank. (I put the fish temporarily in a large tupperware storage container with some of their tank water in the meantime.) When I re-filled the tank, this is when the problems began....

For informational purposes, I am not down to: 4 mollys, a rainbow shark, a red tail shark (I *think*, at least from what I saw in a book), a chinese algae eater, and 2 fish I am unable to identify (look like part shark, part catfish?). I have a Fluval 204 cannister filter, which I have come to find out is supposed to support only up to 40 gallons, but this is what I have to work with here.... I have a heater (I keep it between 72-76 degrees), two water pumps (lots of aeration, including air stones), a light layer of gravel (I originally had more, but removed some because I was afraid too much waste was getting caught in it).

Ok, so my problems began when I re-filled the tank. I knew NOTHING about the nitrogen cycle or about biological filtration. I was doing 10-20 percent water changes weekly (using a tap water conditioner), cleaning the gravel, and completely washing out the filter sponges, and replacing the loose carbon in the filter. I was losing fish (I originally had about 5 more or so in the tank, including a pleco who died recently ). I went to the pet store and brought a water sample, and they informed me that the ammonia was dangerously high. In order to combat this, I started adding Ammo-Lock to the tank. This didn't help. I continued to do the water changes, and two times I have walked in to find my chinese algae eater near death on the tank floor, and my rainbow shark near the surface trying to get air, with what looked like Ich on him. I treated the tank with Super Ich Cure and did partial water changes both times, and both fish came back to life, but it was obvious that I was being told by this pet store was not correct, so I started researching on my own, and finally learned about the Nitrogen cycle. I also invested in a water testing kit, and I would like to outline what I have done since becoming informed, and the results of that, and find out if I am finally on the right track, or what I should do in addition to lower these levels (or if patience is all I need right now). It was Nov. 29th when I learned all of this, so consider Nov. 29th the "starting point" for what I am trying to do, which is successfully cycle the tank.

11/29: Added the following to the cannister filter: Carbon in the bottom canister, ammonia remover in the middle one, and Bio-Max in the top one (there are also the 2 sponges in this filter). Added a heavy dose of Cycle (according to the bottle for "new tank setup"), did a 10% water change, cleaned gravel.

12/8: Water test results: Ph: 6.6, Ammonia: 8 (highest level on card), Nitrite: 5 (highest level on card), Nitrate: 20. Did another 10% water change (tap water treated with Prime), added another double dose of Cycle, did not even touch the filter at all.

12/15: Added another double dose of Cycle. Did not do a water change this week, because of fear of losing any established biofilter by doing so..

12:16 (today): Water test results: Did not test Ph...Ammonia: 4 (a slight improvement), Nitrite: 5 (still highest level on card), Nitrate: 80 (second to highest level on card).

I am feeding sparsely......So my question is this: Am I on the right track (I was hoping for more of an improvement from last week, but since I only added the Bio-Max on 11/29 to get the bio-filter going, I guess it needs more time?) Should I do a partial water change this week, or is it a good idea not to? I didn't plan on touching the filter until the end of December, and at that point I was going to squeeze out the sponges in a bucket of tank water instead of rinsing them with tap water, replace the Ammo-Rid, replace the Carbon, and not touch the Bio-Max. How long until I get these numbers under control, and is there anything else I could be doing that I'm not already doing to help that? Thank you for taking the time to read and for any suggestions you might have. I have posed this on another forum, and the reply I have received so far is a suggestion to do a 50% water change for 3 consecutive days until the ammonia and nitrites are under control. This seems counterintuitive to what I've read however, since everything I've read seems to suggest that anything over a 25% water change is too stressful for fish, and also that it could delay the creation of the biological filter. There HAS been a slight decline in ammonia since last week, so could it be that the process is working, and that the ammo will continue to decrease...then the nitrites? Ahhhh, help!

 

[emmanuelchavez]

Do the water changes. The nitrifying bacteria isn't in the water, but rather the filter media, gravel, any decorations, aquarium wall, etc.

Cycle does not help one bit. SafeStart is what you're looking for, but it's recommended for newly set-up tanks, meaning no fish, or source of ammonia for at least 24 hrs.

You're going to want to do large water changes daily until your ammonia and nitrite are gone.

Can you take a picture of the unidentified fish? I have no experience with any of the sharks you've got, or CAE, but you will probably want to get rid of them (take them back to a store), from what I've read.
CAE will become very aggressive, and the sharks I think get too big for your tank, but I"ll let someone who knows more about them chime in.

 

[TMony]

Make sure to test your water daily while the tank is cycling. The ammo lock you added to the tank is working to trap the ammonia until the beneficial bacteria has time to develop. The bacteria will eventually remove the ammonia. In the mean time however, you will get false positive readings when you test for ammonia. This is because the ammo lock does not remove the ammonia, only prevents it from harming your fish. In the future I recommend using Prime instead of Ammo Lock. IMO it is the best product for this purpose. Keep up on your daily water changes and your tank will cycle in a few days.

 

[EnyaGirl]

Thanks to you both, and I will post a pic of the unidentifiable fish tomorrow. The CAE is not aggressive at all....these fish have been here since I inherited the tank in July, and they all get along fine, so I have no plans on returning any of them anywhere.... The sharks I'm talking about are small....and are not getting bigger. The largest fish I have is a rainbow shark and that's 6 inches or less even.... About the water changes, how much do you reccomend daily for a water change until I get the ammonia under control? It's a 55-gal tank....thanks

 

[blue_ram]

Test yoru tap water for ammonia.

 

[homebunnyj]

Just wanted to add,


~never ever rinse your filter sponges in tap water (but you seem to know about that),

~only replace one of them at a time so as not to throw out too much important bacteria, and

~you can do large water changes (even 75%)

~~~as long as the pH of the tap water is close to the pH of the tank water, and
~~~as long as you match the temperature closely (within 2 degrees).

If the tap water pH is drastically different from the tank's, set out a cup of water overnight and test the pH the next day. If it is closer to the tank's pH, you should probably age the water overnight before adding it to the tank.

Under normal circumstances, you need to get the ammonia down to 1.0 if you can. However, with the ammo lock, you probably are getting a false positive reading. You can tell by how your fish act if they are suffering from ammonia poisoning; they will definitely be in distress. When you start seeing high nitrite readings, you need to do water changes to keep nitrite under 1.0 as well.

Also, you mention the canister filter and two water pumps. Do you mean air pumps, attached to airstones and ornaments via tubing? or do you mean hang-on-the-back power filters? or do you mean powerheads installed in the tank to increase water flow? The answer to this could have a bearing on the filtration issue.

You seem to have learned a lot. You are just around the corner from getting past the cycling issues. Your persistence is about to pay off. *SUNSMILE*

 

[EnyaGirl]

Just wanted to add,


~never ever rinse your filter sponges in tap water (but you seem to know about that),

~only replace one of them at a time so as not to throw out too much important bacteria, and

~you can do large water changes (even 75%)

~~~as long as the pH of the tap water is close to the pH of the tank water, and
~~~as long as you match the temperature closely (within 2 degrees).

If the tap water pH is drastically different from the tank's, set out a cup of water overnight and test the pH the next day. If it is closer to the tank's pH, you should probably age the water overnight before adding it to the tank.

Under normal circumstances, you need to get the ammonia down to 1.0 if you can. However, with the ammo lock, you probably are getting a false positive reading. You can tell by how your fish act if they are suffering from ammonia poisoning; they will definitely be in distress. When you start seeing high nitrite readings, you need to do water changes to keep nitrite under 1.0 as well.

Also, you mention the canister filter and two water pumps. Do you mean air pumps, attached to airstones and ornaments via tubing? or do you mean hang-on-the-back power filters? or do you mean powerheads installed in the tank to increase water flow? The answer to this could have a bearing on the filtration issue.

You seem to have learned a lot. You are just around the corner from getting past the cycling issues. Your persistence is about to pay off. *SUNSMILE*

Judy, thanks for the vote of confidence.....this tank has had me ripping my hair out! I did mean air pumps, not water pumps sorry....I used the Ammo-Lock weeks ago once. Since Nov. 29th the only thing I have that's supposed to be controlling the ammonia is the Fluval Ammonia Remover in the second cannister....The ammonia *did* go from 8 to 4ppm in a week, so maybe that had something to do with it.

To the other poster, I tested my tap water and there is no ammonia.

Thanks for the info on matching Ph with the replacement water....this is something no one had pointed out to me yet. So, as long as the Ph and temp. match (within 2 degrees), then the fish should not suffer shock from such a large water change?

 

[TMony]

yes, they shouldn't suffer if the ph and temp are close as you mentioned.
As long as the fish aren't stressed (gasping for air, red gills etc) then you should be ok if you continue to use the ammo lock or prime. If it was me, I would only change about 25% of the water a day until the tank cycles. If the fish show signs of stress, you can do a larger water change, but I think you will be ok as long as you are treating with the ammo lock or prime.

 

[EnyaGirl]

Good news to report!

I just wanted to come back and post my latest test results:


Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: .25 ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm

If you'll recall, on Tuesday I was at:

Ammonia: 4ppm
Nitrite: 5ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm

I did a 25% water change both days, and that seems to have taken care of it. I'm really relieved to know that my fish can breath easier now. Are my current numbers ok? Thanks!

 

[EnyaGirl]

Oh, and I also wanted to ask...is it ok to give my fish the algae wafers? I only have one chinese algae eater in my tank, but ALL of the fish seem to go crazy over these wafers when I toss them in. Are these something that can be given on a regular basis, like say one a day? Or could they lead to ammonia buildup?

 

[TMony]

Glad to hear things are looking up. You really jumped in and got your feet wet with this project. Ok, just kidding *BOUNCINGS


Ammonia and Nitrites should be kept at zero, so you are on your way. Nitrites should zero out in a day or so. Nitrates won't directly harm your fish like ammonia and nitrites do, but they can be a problem if you don't keep up on your water changes. Once a week is usually ideal, but you can some times get away with every other week. Some say 50ppm and below is ok, but I like to keep them as low as possible. Algae can grow with 10ppm or less. Too much nitrate will cause excessive algae growth, which in turn uses up oxygen in the water and is just plain ugly. This can stress your fish. Best way to get rid of nitrates is with live plants, otherwise the next best methods are to keep the tank clean, don't over feed and keep up on your water changes.

The algae wafers are fine. One a day won't hurt a thing.

Take care! *thumbsups

 

[EnyaGirl]

When you say nitrites should "zero out in a day or so", does this mean I don't need to do another water change today? I've done 25% for the last 2 days in a row. Should I take a break with that and see what it tests at tomorrow, or is another 25% going to be necessary to make that zero out?

Thanks!

 

[TMony]

Everything is testing low enough that you'll be fine if you wait until tomorrow to do a water change. I'm guessing your nitrites will be zero by then.
Way to go . . . for never doing any of this before, you are doing great!

 

[EnyaGirl]

Thanks TMony! I really think I could enjoy this as a hobby. Unfortunately, if I leave my current job, I leave the tank (it's technically not owned by me, even though I take care of it). I'd really like to have my own one day at my home though.

 

[TMony]

There are lots of tanks out there. I always encourage people to check out craigslist. I bought two of my tanks on there. There are some great deals if you look around and be patient. Come on . . . you know you want one*BOUNCINGS