Water changes with a big tank

[bmoraski]

Hey Joe
here in NY upstate, ( im a licensed waste water operator ) ill have to talk to our water plant guy ( our company does both water and waste water ) and see about those limits.
On the waste water side of it our discharge into the Mohawk River Chlorine residual cant exceed 1.20 ppm or we are in violation ( we do 6 grab samples a day ) i think our average flow is 30 million gallons a day.
im also chief operator of a nursing homes small package plant ( average daily flow is between 10,000 - 15,000 gallons a day. my spedes permit daily limit of Chlorine is 2.00 ppm ( i do 1 grab sample )
like i said ill look into the free chlorine question
Every plant has its own personality and spedes permit requirements
just thought i would put my 2 cents in LOL
later
oh by the way nice setup !

 

[BlueStraggler]

It isn't that hard to adjust the temp, really.

• You run the water through the Python as if you were siphoning, only you have it shut off at the end of the hose with the little lever so it won't keep sucking out your tank.
  
• You stick the thermometer under the water flow, adjust until it matches the tank temp, then push up and turn the thing to switch it from siphon to refill, then open the valve at the end of the hose.
  
• Pour some dechlor in the tank around where the refill water is flowing in, and periodically check the water temp by sticking your hand in the tank and feeling if the outflowing water is close to the tank water's temp.

That's all. Really.

You'd rather lug buckets full of water, risk splashing your floors and clothes, instead of this simple little procedure that takes less time than running a single bucket of water? Why would anybody spend all that money on a Python and still carry buckets???

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just incredulous.

Learn to use your Python and you will never go back.

True but I don't see how the python is good for the smaller tanks like 30g or smaller.

I'll have to monkey around w/mine when the time comes to see if I can get the temp right. For big tanks it is a life saver.

Please! You are not rude. lol. You take the time out of your busy life to help us! And I know how stressful being a manager is. Which makes *me* more grateful for anything you have to say.

I've already learned a lot from you...well re-learned a lot from you. Thanks for your time Homebunny.

 

[homebunnyj]

Glad to be of any service I can.

True but I don't see how the python is good for the smaller tanks like 30g or smaller.

A 20% wc is six gallons, a 25% is 7.5, assuming very few ornaments and little to no substrate. It takes longer to fill the buckets, lug them and pour into the tank.

 

[sombunya]

@ bmoraski,

Interesting. We have a guy at our plant who has a Wastewater license also.

I know individual states create standards to be met, and the Federal EPA also has their hands in it too. Interesting about that 1.20 ppm discharge limit. Again, when we de-water a main into the storm drain we neutralize it to no more than .1 ppm.

 

[Orion]

In regards to different chlorine levels, when we lived within the city limits and were on the municipal water supply, we could smell the chlorine (or whatever it was) at the kitchen sink, in the shower, even when we flushed the toilet on a regular basis. A few years ago we moved to the other side of the county and changed to another water supply and here we can barely even smell a hint of chlorine only every now and then.

I've used a python 'per the instructions' for at least 6 years. When filling the tank I adjust the new water close, but try to make sure it is a little cooler than the tank water, as I would rather have it a bit cold by a few degrees than a bit hot. Plus the tank will have an easier time heating the water than cooling it. I just add a cap full of Prime to each of my large tanks right after I start the filling process and never look back.

I also have a 2.5 gallon tank. The tank is smaller than the entire siphon bracket I use with the python, so no I don't use it for WC. I did use it on 10 gallons and up when I had more tanks. It's just a life saver when you've got multiple small tanks, or large tanks to change.

 

[homebunnyj]

It really is a lifesaver. When I used it on 10's and 20's I opened the valve at the vacuum end of the hose only halfway or less to control the speed of draining and filling so that it didn't suck out more than I wanted due to the fast flow, or overfill while I turned my head for a moment. With a 5 or less, though, I just dip some water out into a plastic bucket.

I would never have spent money on a Python unless I knew I'd never have to carry a 5-gallon bucket again, or stand and fill bucket after bucket after bucket.....

 

[bmoraski]

im getting one today !!
i just did a WC on my 20g about 75% did some vacuuming too
ive been using (2) 3 gal buckets (keep meaning to get a 5gal LOL)
when one bucket is full i swap it out so i dont have to stop the syphon then dump that, same goes for filling AND IM DONE WITH BUCKETS !
i cant wait to get it and use it !
ill post my happiness !!

 

[bmoraski]

In regards to different chlorine levels, when we lived within the city limits and were on the municipal water supply, we could smell the chlorine (or whatever it was) at the kitchen sink, in the shower, even when we flushed the toilet on a regular basis. A few years ago we moved to the other side of the county and changed to another water supply and here we can barely even smell a hint of chlorine only every now and then.

I've used a python 'per the instructions' for at least 6 years. When filling the tank I adjust the new water close, but try to make sure it is a little cooler than the tank water, as I would rather have it a bit cold by a few degrees than a bit hot. Plus the tank will have an easier time heating the water than cooling it. I just add a cap full of Prime to each of my large tanks right after I start the filling process and never look back.

I also have a 2.5 gallon tank. The tank is smaller than the entire siphon bracket I use with the python, so no I don't use it for WC. I did use it on 10 gallons and up when I had more tanks. It's just a life saver when you've got multiple small tanks, or large tanks to change.

Makes you appreciate a good Operator at a water plant or waste water plant
believe me ive seen some POORLY RUN WATER PLANTS that i would never drink the water !

 

[brian1973]

I use a python on all my tanks, when I used the bucket method it would take me an hour to change out the water in my 90G alone then a couple hours to do the other smaller tanks and usually had some spillage to clean up, now I do all my tanks (see my sig) in under an hour.

 

[bmoraski]

I use a python on all my tanks, when I used the bucket method it would take me an hour to change out the water in my 90G alone then a couple hours to do the other smaller tanks and usually had some spillage to clean up, now I do all my tanks (see my sig) in under an hour.

i know what it takes for my teenie 20 gal with buckets
i cant imagine doing 50 to 100 gal tank that way ! not to mention multi tanks !!!!!! LOL
that would easily justify the 50 to 100 bucks for the python !!!!! ( i would need 50ft )
walmart had a cheaper one but not many good reviews

 

[bmoraski]

I work as a water treatment plant operator for LADWP and use one of these in the field. This is a colorimetric type that uses a reagent. Very accurate. Not sure what the rules about "free chlorine residual" are in New York but the California Dept. of Public Health mandates a minimum .2 ppm free Chlorine residual at the furthest point in the distribution system. It is always well above that. In many of our processes we dose 2.0 ppm up to 2.5 ppm. While there is demand in the system I've personally tested 1.75 ppm from a restaurant tap in Los Angeles. The tap water at my house (San Gabriel Valley Water Company) is usually at around .8 ppm. When we de-Chlorinate a main the water must not contain more than .05 ppm before it goes into a storm drain. Bad for fish the D.P.H. says.

Bull Frogs do not have gills. That is what Chlorine attacks on a fish. By the way, the Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL) set by the USEPA for Chlorine in drinking water is 4 ppm. That means that water containing 4 parts per million or less free chlorine is considered "safe to drink". It may not taste very pleasant but it is safe to drink.


I have had a pool for 18 years at my home (unfortunately). When I keep a minimum 3.0 ppm free chlorine residual there is no algae at all. I can tell if the Chlorine is low when algae starts forming in the shaded areas.

Chloramines? We have two stations that treat with them and I can tell you all about that process. The use of PRIME is definitely advised.

Hey joe just a follow up
our (water) plant has to have at least 0.02 ppm in the system with a max of 2.00 ppm. our target residual is between 0.50 ppm and 0.80 ppm i forget size of holding tank but the cl2 does dissipate while in holding tank
i finally got to talk to our water guy LOL
just thought youd like to know
later

 

[sombunya]

Hey joe just a follow up
our (water) plant has to have at least 0.02 ppm in the system with a max of 2.00 ppm. our target residual is between 0.50 ppm and 0.80 ppm i forget size of holding tank but the cl2 does dissipate while in holding tank
i finally got to talk to our water guy LOL
just thought youd like to know
later

In California the requirements are no less than .2 ppm anywhere in the distribution system. The maximum contaminant level (MCL) for Chlorine in drinking water is 4 ppm. It used to be 5 ppm.

I was at a restaurant once and the water smelled like chlorine and tasted terrible so I took a cup out to my truck and tested it. 1.75 ppm.

I've used the "Barrel and Pump" method for a while now and I like it. I vacuum the tanks to remove the water and fill a barrel with water treated with PRIME and pump it in. I use one cap full for around 50 gallons. A little goes a long way.

 

[bmoraski]

In California the requirements are no less than .2 ppm anywhere in the distribution system. The maximum contaminant level (MCL) for Chlorine in drinking water is 4 ppm. It used to be 5 ppm.

I was at a restaurant once and the water smelled like chlorine and tasted terrible so I took a cup out to my truck and tested it. 1.75 ppm.

I've used the "Barrel and Pump" method for a while now and I like it. I vacuum the tanks to remove the water and fill a barrel with water treated with PRIME and pump it in. I use one cap full for around 50 gallons. A little goes a long way.

Oh my god that must have tasted REALLY BAD
its pretty bad if you can noticeably smell the chlorine LOL
later man

 

[widebody2]

Hey joe just a follow up
our (water) plant has to have at least 0.02 ppm in the system with a max of 2.00 ppm. our target residual is between 0.50 ppm and 0.80 ppm i forget size of holding tank but the cl2 does dissipate while in holding tank
i finally got to talk to our water guy LOL
just thought youd like to know
later

Wow .02 to 2 ppm is such a big range. I couldn't imagine seeing a 2 ppm test coming out of my tap....I think i would move lol.

Do you guys know anything about the restrictions on the cyanaric acid levels for the tap water, since that is what really is making the free chlorine levels usable. You could have a 10ppm fc and have it be completely useless if your cya is too high. I think most tap water around me tests at like 20-30 ppm. In order to kill algae you want your free chlorine to CYA ratio to be 5-7%.

If you have a CYA level of 200, you are going to need to maintain your free chlorine at 10ppm at least, if you want clear water. High CYA levels like 200 are very common in pools that run most of the year and use tablets every week.


So just to give you guys an update, I am still adding straight tap water to my tank. 52 degrees and no prime and have had no problems with the fish (only problems I've had are from fish fighting). Its been a year now. I do 15% water changes twice weekly. When I vacuum I do 30% changes, still with no prime. I do at some warm water on the larger changes. (The changes are actually probably less since I do two 15% changes, so probably 25% in total)

 

[bmoraski]

Do you guys know anything about the restrictions on the cyanaric acid levels for the tap water

ill look into that, and get back to you.

 

[blue_ram]

I use one of these to refill.

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

With 5 gallon buckets.

Can use up to a 5ft hose with it.

 

[no.1chuy]

thats good idea im gonna have to get me one. that store has a lot of tools for cheap i cant remeber what i bought but it broke on me the first time so i went and got another same thing happened so i stop going there but i did get some c clamps that work great no complants there