Goldfish ID and general questions for my new 55G.

[MrNiteOwl]

After reading and finding this website, I was pushed in getting a bigger tank. I bought my daughter a Nemo themed 1.5g at Target for $7. Went to Petco and picked out two red cap orandas. This was before doing any reading and not having any "real" experience keeping fish. The guy there said that was a big of enough tank and my daughter (3yr old) had picked out the fish. They did fine with regular water changes and maintenance. Would add ghost shrimp every once in a while that they would eat. Went to Walmart and wife says... Let's get some snails.... we add two to the 1.5. The red caps have gone strong 8 months in the 1.5g.... the snails didn't. Went to a LFS.... saw another Goldie and had to have it. He's doing fine as well. It was another month when I decided to jump online and try to figure what kind of Goldie he is. I think he's either just a red and white fantail or a red and white Ryukin. If anyone can tell me what kind of Goldie he is.... I'd gladly appreciate it. But anyways.... That's when I read about the 20g for the first and 10g for every other Goldie.... Man was I in the wrong. So I went out and had to get me a bigger tank because I really like my fish and just an all around animal lover. Now I have my three Goldies, three rosy reds (used to cycle my tank (which I knew nothing about until I found this site.... thanx)). And recently added a M & F Betta. They are all doing great and love the much needed room. I'm running an Emperor 400 filter. I have a piece of drift wood curing and want to add one or two plants to the driftwood. I did learn that Goldies tend to uproot and eat them.... but I'm not too worried about that too much. Was wondering if I could add a frog or small turtle to the tank. Also wondering if I should add another filter? If I do, it would be a cheaper big one from Walmart to help with the Bioload and a backup as well. If not, my LFS guy said I can add a FW eel.... don't member the name of it. Also what kind of algae eater should or can I get? Snails, shrimp, plecos or something along those lines? I'm still new and learning and have a long way to go. I know you guys won't steer me wrong. For the plants, what kind and what kind of bulb should I get? Thanx in advance and now I am very addicted the this Forum. Love it....

The 1.5g I'm going to keep as a Ghost Shrimp tank. There are 12 in there now and one is holding eggs.... YAY!!!!

 

[homebunnyj]

Good for you for properly housing your goldies!

I wouldn't get anything other than hornwort for the goldie tank. It's kinda prickly so it might actually survive them. It's a low light plant, so stock lighting is fine. If you just want to feed them, get a handful of duckweed every so often and throw it in, they'll love it.

I went with large river rocks in my goldie tank, because they seem to prefer higher pH, and the driftwood actually lowers the pH of the water. I used wood in my tetra tank.

You could put in an african dwarf frog, however it is tropical and I wouldn't recommend it, but turtles are very messy. I'd avoid the turtle, especially since fish are their natural food lol.

I'd go for the snails if the goldies leave them alone. One issue you're set up for is temperature: your bettas prefer much warmer temps than goldies. Hey, it's a good excuse to set up another tank. Plecos need warmer temps too. If you're having algae issues, cut back on the light a few hours and make sure you keep nitrates under 20 or so.

Yeah, an extra filter is a good idea with the goldies.

I don't know of a freshwater eel that likes the same temps as goldies. However, you can, if you have sand or fine gravel substrate, get some dojo loaches. They are so much fun to watch. You could put several in there. I don't know if the snail would be safe, I'm not sure if dojos go after them, but you really don't need the snails if you keep algae in check. A school of white cloud mountain minnows would work too (technically tropical but from the mountains of China), just don't get too heavy a bioload going on.

 

[jo3olous]

It's best to keep goldies seperate, but other people have been posting on this site that their fish do just fine being mixed together. *twirlysmi

Goldfish are coldwater fish, but your fantails actually prefer warmer temps, like in the high 68-76. The common golds, kois, and comets too prefer 62-70. Note that goldfish in general are very tolerable of different temps; they can survive in ponds during cold winters, and hot summers.

I would be careful of mixing a male betta in with your fantail golds. It may confuse them for bettas and be aggressive towards them, and faintails are generally slow, so getting away would be a problem for them.

you technically do not need a heater, unless you are mixing tropicals with them. Again it's do-able, but probably best not to.

If you want an algae eater (also known as plecos), I would recommend the dwarf variety, maybe something that grows 6-10 inches. These require warmer temps. The 'algae eater' you see in stores is usually the common pleco, be careful before you decide to buy those, they grow anywhere from 12-20 inches and are a bigger bioload than your goldfish. You could say they make a bigger mess than they clean. Common plecos however grow at a slow rate.

hope this helps, goodluck and welcome

 

[Mental_Butterfly]

As per the ID of your fish, the anglularity of the arch in his back looks a lot like that of a young Ryukin to me. Then again, young fans and young ryus can look pretty similar at times. Once he's full grown, there'll be no mistaking whether he's a fantail or not.

 

[MrNiteOwl]

Thanx for all the advice. I really wanted to add driftwood into the tank. That's why the right side is pretty bare. Is there a work around the pH if I do add the driftwood? I was going for a natural look. I'm going to be building a platform to add a cliff with a cave and two or three entrances into it. Can I use plexiglass or a tupperware bowl to this with? I'm then going to add river rocks around it and ontop to keep it in place and give it a natural look. Will be throwing a smalk airstone in there with very low air flow and a few holes on top so the water in there gets aerated. Daughter wants me to add a castle to the tank and that's where I got this idea. For the caslte (haven't found one yet, if anyone knows where I can get a good cheap one) well be sitting on top of the cliff. I don't know if I want to use the same fine sand I have for on top of the cliff or if I want to use something else.... Any suggestions? Maybe plant one or two real plants by the castle? As for the algae eater.... I don't have an algae problem at all.... This was just another measure to help keep it in control before I do/if I have one. Did look up the dojo loaches and might get a pair down the line. Not sure. If I do, I will add the snails as well as I read that they will eat them. So the snails would help until a loach finds them and makes a meal out of them. Really wanted to add a froggie or small turtle into the mix.... I'll do some more reading and we'll see what happens on that. My water is about 70-72 degrees. Its a little on the low side for bettas but within their tolerance as I understand. My M betta gets along great with my Goldies. I've been watching them a lot and just looking for any signs of aggression.... none. If he does get aggressive.... I'll throw him in with the ghost shrimp until I get another tank. Thanx again for all the advice.... I really appreciate it.

 

[jo3olous]

Thanx for all the advice. I really wanted to add driftwood into the tank. That's why the right side is pretty bare. Is there a work around the pH if I do add the driftwood? I was going for a natural look. I'm going to be building a platform to add a cliff with a cave and two or three entrances into it. Can I use plexiglass or a tupperware bowl to this with? I'm then going to add river rocks around it and ontop to keep it in place and give it a natural look. Will be throwing a smalk airstone in there with very low air flow and a few holes on top so the water in there gets aerated. Daughter wants me to add a castle to the tank and that's where I got this idea. For the caslte (haven't found one yet, if anyone knows where I can get a good cheap one) well be sitting on top of the cliff. I don't know if I want to use the same fine sand I have for on top of the cliff or if I want to use something else.... Any suggestions? Maybe plant one or two real plants by the castle? As for the algae eater.... I don't have an algae problem at all.... This was just another measure to help keep it in control before I do/if I have one. Did look up the dojo loaches and might get a pair down the line. Not sure. If I do, I will add the snails as well as I read that they will eat them. So the snails would help until a loach finds them and makes a meal out of them. Really wanted to add a froggie or small turtle into the mix.... I'll do some more reading and we'll see what happens on that. My water is about 70-72 degrees. Its a little on the low side for bettas but within their tolerance as I understand. My M betta gets along great with my Goldies. I've been watching them a lot and just looking for any signs of aggression.... none. If he does get aggressive.... I'll throw him in with the ghost shrimp until I get another tank. Thanx again for all the advice.... I really appreciate it.

Take care of the decor you use in the tank, you don't want anything sharp as the big clumsy goldfish may bump into it and hurt themselves, this is a major issue for the bubble-eye variety but i don't believe you have any.

Airstones do not aerate the tank. They are simply for aesthetic purposes. To aerate your tank, you should have good surface agitation, like from a Hang-On-Back filter, or powerheads. I believe goldfish do not like strong currents though. Your betta especially prefers still water, so I do not recommend current in your tank.

and for frogs, maybe an african dwarf frog, i dont know what kind of temps they do okay in, and be careful because they are blind and are very bad at finding food. It may be difficult to feed them with other tank mates getting the food first.

I would not recommend an african clawed frog, they grow up to 5-6 inches and will eat your fish, or try to. Turtles naturally prey on food, so unless your trying to feed off your fish I don't recommend a turtle

 

[robinanne]

i love your tank and you have so many great ideas! i vote for snails. who knew they could be so interesting to watch.

 

[MrNiteOwl]

I did some more reading and have decided not to get a turtle.... maybe a ADF. I think when I metioned the airstone for the cave I miss understood aeration. Just want some water movement in there so that water gets some type of current and not get stale. I am aware of the sharp corners.... everything will be rounded off. So is platic tupperware or plexiglass good to use in "our" tanks? Also, what type of glue or adhesive can I use? Was thinking if I don't do the tupperware thing for a cave.... maybe glue a bunch of river rocks into a cave and I can make a bunch of layers that way.... or glue the rocks onto the tupperware if its safe to use. Any other suggestions?

I just picked up a 72g bowfront yesterday with all the trimmings including 2 penguin filters for only $150.... I know.... be jealous. But now wifey wants me to get rid of the 55g because we have no room for both or even one to be honest. I can't even start cycling the 72g until I get rid of the 55g. Bigger tank means bigger ideas....

Thank you all!!!

 

[jo3olous]

I did some more reading and have decided not to get a turtle.... maybe a ADF. I think when I metioned the airstone for the cave I miss understood aeration. Just want some water movement in there so that water gets some type of current and not get stale. I am aware of the sharp corners.... everything will be rounded off. So is platic tupperware or plexiglass good to use in "our" tanks? Also, what type of glue or adhesive can I use? Was thinking if I don't do the tupperware thing for a cave.... maybe glue a bunch of river rocks into a cave and I can make a bunch of layers that way.... or glue the rocks onto the tupperware if its safe to use. Any other suggestions?

I just picked up a 72g bowfront yesterday with all the trimmings including 2 penguin filters for only $150.... I know.... be jealous. But now wifey wants me to get rid of the 55g because we have no room for both or even one to be honest. I can't even start cycling the 72g until I get rid of the 55g. Bigger tank means bigger ideas....

Thank you all!!!

To help jumpstart the cycling of your 72G you can use the filter media from your 55G when running the filter/water in your new tank.

 

[MrNiteOwl]

Thanks.... That was going to be the plan.... Use my filter I have now.... since its better then the penguins.... with one of them. Also was going to use the decor and was thinking if I wanted to keep the very fine sand I have in the 55g. Which all has been established.

 

[homebunnyj]

You could also put the penguins alongside your filter on the 55 for a couple weeks, then move it all over and run the penguins for a week or two on the new tank before removing them... or, when you switch everything over you could swish the filter pads from the penguins in the water to add a few more bacteria to the new tank.

 

[MrNiteOwl]

That was what I was going to do.... run one of the penguins in my 55g.... and when I moved everything over use the same two filters from my 55g to the 72g (400 Emperor and 200 Penguin). As I was planning of buying a cheaper big filter at Walmart anyways to run two filters. Now I don't have to.... I wish I can run both Penguins in my 55g but they wouldn't fit unless I took off the cover and I really don't want to do that. I think two would be good. Can I syphon the water from my 55g to the 72g, instead if starting a whole fresh cycle? The tank is established and already cycled. Last nights readings were: pH = 7.6, Ammonia = .25, Nitrite = .25 and Nitrate = 10. I know I need to do a water change to bring down the Ammonia and Nitrite but the sink to tank syphon I bought didn't fit on my faucet.... So either I'm going to buy the right adapter today or going to do it the old fashion way.... Using a bucket. And yes, I will condition the new water and then take new readings to make sure that everything is still running smoothly.... and I know all this thanks to all of you!!!!

I did go out and buy a API master kit.... see.... I have been doing my reading and research....

 

[Violet]

I have dojo loaches as well as apple, nerite and malaysian trumpet snails, never had a problem with the snails being eaten or picked at. The goldfish produce more ammonia, maybe keep an extra careful eye on that if you have other fish in there?

 

[MrNiteOwl]

Thanks for all the advice.... I just want to let you guys know that I have sold my 55g and have set up the 72g. I used the same sand, filter, deco, and water from the 55g and put it all in the 72g since everything was already stable. I just topped it off and I added the penguin 200 along side the emperor 400.... so I'm running two filters.... I also added 4 of my Ghost Shrimp in there too. So this is the stock of my 72g.... 2 Red Cap Orandas, 1 White & Red Fantail/Ryukin?, 3 Rosy Reds, 1 M & F Betas, and 4 Ghost shrimp. Tomorrow I have to go out and buy new bulbs or even a new light fixture or something.... because the one I got with the tank isn't working.... only two of the four blue L.E.D.'s on it are working.... nothing else.... I also added a banana plant as well.... What kind of bulbs should I get for that deep of a tank if I want to add 2 or 3 plants? With the bigger space and plenty of hiding places.... Could I add another M Betta? I will add one or maybe two more F. What do you guys think? I really didn't like the way I arranged everything.... What do you guys think? I'm still going to make my own cave system.... went out and bought some tupperware bowls and some aquarium safe putty.... I already have the river rocks.... I'll also post pix of those when I get the time to get them made and run a new thread for my 72g.... Again, thanx for all the advice and help.... would love some criticism.