Meet "Bully Boy" My Dominant Male M.J. Hybrid!

#1
Allow me to introduce you to my dominant male "Bully Boy". We've been having some discussions on a number of other boards regarding his, and his tank mates' true identity. The consensus seems to be that they are either Melanochromis Johanni or Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos hybrids.

Please click on the image to see a larger image; and if you are using Firefox, if you click on the new image, you may even get a larger one still.

 

robinanne

Medium Fish
Apr 12, 2009
91
0
0
florida
#5
what a great picture! he looks very much like my beloved late johanni other than his stripes. mine had several very dark black vertical stripes along his side. he has tank mates? i was looking for female johanni's to put in with him before he passed away as i had read he would not tolerate any other fish. how long have you had him?
 

#6
Hello fellow weenie fish!

what a great picture! he looks very much like my beloved late johanni other than his stripes. mine had several very dark black vertical stripes along his side. he has tank mates? i was looking for female johanni's to put in with him before he passed away as i had read he would not tolerate any other fish. how long have you had him?
Hello RobinAnne. Glad you enjoyed the pic. Did you mean to say horizontal bars, rather than vertical bars? Most M.J. and M.C. have horizontal bars, 3 or 4, depending on the sex, so they say. While you cannot see them here, Bully Boy actually has three or four vertical stripes which begin on his belly, but which fade out about half way up his body.

When I first got him in April, along with four others of his kind, he displayed the typical horizontal bars the full length of his body; however, as he became the dominant male of the tank, his colors underwent a dramatic change, and the dark horizontal bars were overpowered by the deep metallic blues you see in the image.

If you look closely, you can still see the central horizontal bar, but it is currently faint. He has just been all lit up, sexed up, and to be quite honest, quite a tyrant. He owns his four foot tank. That is why it is good to have a ratio of about one male to at least four female mbunas.

As I said, I purchased five fish at my LFS in April, and thus far, it looks like I got three males and two females, both of which have spawned. It is a bad ratio, which I hope to correct sometime in the not-too-distant future.
 

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#8
Bully Boy And Female #2

yes i did mean horizontal strips lol! :) do you have pictures of the females?
Here are two pics that I took of Bully Boy and female #2 yesterday. Her colors are a bit washed out, I think because she was a bit closer to the flash of the camera:





She is a bit thin, because she spawned a few days ago and hadn't eaten. You can see that her ventral side is a bit pointed where her ovipositor was protuding.
 

#9
Female #1 in a jar

yes i did mean horizontal strips lol! :) do you have pictures of the females?
Here are some pics I took of female #1 on June 17th, right after she spit out her fry. She hadn't eaten in 17 days, and so looks pale and thin. Also, I put her in a jar to take these pics, so the images are a bit distorted due to the rounded surface. Finally, the lighting for these three images was natural daylight coming in from a window behind the camera. There is no artificial aquarium lighting in these images, so she doesn't look as blue as she really is. She is much more pale blue than Bully Boy, and a little more than half the size of female #2.





 

robinanne

Medium Fish
Apr 12, 2009
91
0
0
florida
#10
first of all let me say your pictures are awesome. i have a beautiful ruykin i keep trying to take a picture of but he hides when get close to him with the camera. not when i come with food though! :) of course johanni's are not shy. i really miss mine banging his body against the tank and spitting rocks to get my attention.
anywho when i was looking for females they were more yellow than your girls. i thought they all looked the same when they are little so you couldn't tell them apart but as they matured the males were blue and the females were yellow?
 

#11
Melanochromis Johanni females are yellow

first of all let me say your pictures are awesome. i have a beautiful ruykin i keep trying to take a picture of but he hides when get close to him with the camera. not when i come with food though! :) of course johanni's are not shy. i really miss mine banging his body against the tank and spitting rocks to get my attention.
anywho when i was looking for females they were more yellow than your girls. i thought they all looked the same when they are little so you couldn't tell them apart but as they matured the males were blue and the females were yellow?
Hello again RobinAnne. I know what you mean. Bully Boy is quite bold when it comes to flirting with the females, and tormenting the other males in the tank; but the minute he sees the camera, he turns into a total coward and runs -- at least until yesterday. For some reason -- maybe the 25% water change -- for the first time yesterday he gave me plenty of opportunities to take some pics of him, not only alone, but with female #2.

Oh yes...these fish are little psychologists, I have no doubt of that. When Bully Boy is hungry, he will do this sort of strutting dance, kind of like challenging me, and then he just eyeballs me to see what I am going to do. I can almost hear him singing "Feed Me, Symour" -- even though my name isn't Seymour.

In case you didn't get that, watch the musical remake of "Little Shop Of Horrors" with Rick Moranis, et al. It's hilarious.

But on to more serious business...

Yes, female Melanochromis Johanni are in fact supposed to be yellow, which is how I determined that I don't have those, but rather a similar-looking "cousin" called Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos, aka Maingano. With the latter, there is no sexual dimorphism. In other words, males and females look pretty much the same, except some aquarists say that male MC have a 4th black horizontal bar the length of the belly, while females do not; they only have three.

My females don't exactly match up to female MC, because they have a thin yellow edge on their dorsal fin, as well as some yellow at the edge of their tails. One even has a little yellow in her gill fins. Also, mine are lighter colored than the males.

To make matters worse, my dominant male's horizontal bars have for the most part disappeared, as you've seen, but I suspect that they merely faded as he intensified his colors, since he is now king and tyrant of the tank.

Anyway, to make a long story short, some folks I've communicated with on a few boards have suggested that I have neither pure MJ, or pure MC, but rather a hybrid of one or the other, which is not all that uncommon.

Whatever they are, even if they are aquatic "mutts", Bully Boy is still one handsome dude! *thumbsups
 

Matt Nace

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,470
1
38
Pennsylvania
#12
He is awesome looking, and so are your pictures. May I ask what camera you use?

My pics are horrible with my africans , they never stay still for me!

I have a very blue what I think is an aratus, but after seeing yours I will look at even closer. He is very dominant also in my tank. He has 2 females and then there is a tanner aratus that I am not sure about yet wheather male or female.

Thank you for sharing your fish here . Always welcome to see such a nice fish.
 

#13
Casio Exilim EX-Z50, Auratus, etc.

He is awesome looking, and so are your pictures. May I ask what camera you use?

My pics are horrible with my africans , they never stay still for me!

I have a very blue what I think is an aratus, but after seeing yours I will look at even closer. He is very dominant also in my tank. He has 2 females and then there is a tanner aratus that I am not sure about yet wheather male or female.

Thank you for sharing your fish here . Always welcome to see such a nice fish.
Hello Matt. Thanks for your nice comments.

It may surprise you to know that I have never been a camera person. Many years ago, like over 25 years ago, I owned one of those polaroid cameras that shoots the photo out of a slot, and then you watch it develop before your very eyes. But other than that, I've never owned a camera.

However, a while back, maybe two years ago, I purchased a Casio Exilim EX-Z50 digital camera for my daughter, knowing very little about digital cameras. I even got a 1 GB memory card for it.

Well, it sat on my daughter's desk for the longest time, getting very little real use. Then, just a few days ago, after having had my fish for two months, I decided to try my hand at digital photography. There are so many settings on that camera that it is downright confusing; so, I just started out at the default settings, and to say the least, my pics were less than satisfactory.

Then I discovered that in addition to the Reference Guide, there is also a PDF Users Manual. So, determined to take better pics, I began reading through it. I haven't fiddled with all of the settings yet, but just by adjusting the white balance, the image size, the type of zoom, the level of zoom, the picture quality, and the profile style, I have managed to take much better pics during the past few days, as you have seen.

It's kind of funny, because we both assumed that it was a rather inferior camera, even though I paid about $500 for it, including the extra 1 GB memory card. As it turns out, we, or better said, I, just had to learn how to use it properly.

Speaking of Melanochromis Auratus, when I first got my fish in April of this year, while I was trying to properly identify them, MA was one of the four in my list. In fact, I just now looked again at an image of one in my Malawi Cichlids book, and I am wondering if my females might be a cross between Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos and Melanochromis Auratus; the reason being that my two females have a thin yellow edge on their dorsal fin, as well as a bit of yellow on the edge of their tails...and the male MA appears to have the same thing. Hmmm...maybe I am on to something.

My males are definitely not MA's though. I am still convinced that they are MC's, or MJ's, or else a hybrid of one of those.

What does everyone else think?

Thanks!
 

Matt Nace

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,470
1
38
Pennsylvania
#14
I have the DR Axelrod's Atlas. It is a very large book with many many many pictures of fish in it. Looking in there..on page 712, pic 2, 11th edition...I see almost the exact same picture of your blue fish. The only slight differance is this fish in the book has a slight yellow along his top dorsal fin in addition to the blues and blacks. They have 6 differant elongatus in the book and they each look differant.

If you can find this book..I bet you could further see if it is closer to your fish than I can tell.
 

#15
Whoah...this is getting interesting.

Check out this page which, according to the author, are all images of Melanochromis Auratus. Go down about halfway, and look in the right column. There is an image of a fish with dark and light blue horizontal bars:

Colorful tropical fish pictures,Melanochromis auratus, Auratus

The odd thing is, every other site I have visited refers to this fish -- the fish on the above page -- as Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos, aka Maingano, which is what I believe I have...at least as far as my males are concerned. They all look pretty much like the fish on the above page, except somewhat different shades of blue. Likewise, other images of Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos which I found on other sites, also seem to verify that this is what I have. Only Bully Boy, my dominant male, now looks drastically different, with his horizontal bars pretty much washed out due to intense mating colors...at least that is my personal theory.

If the author of that page is correct, and Melanochromis Auratus can also look like that, while others are a darker color with the yellow-edged dorsal and tail, then this might explain why my two females also have the thin yellow line on their dorsals, and on the edge of their tails.

So again, is it possible that my females are Melanochromis Johanni/Melanochromis Auratus or Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos/Melanochromis Auratus hybrids?

Is it even possible that my males are also Melanochromis Auratus, and not really Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos?

Of course, the other possibility is that the author of that page made a mistake, and that one image should not be there.

Again, what does everyone think?

Thanks!
 

#16
I have the DR Axelrod's Atlas. It is a very large book with many many many pictures of fish in it. Looking in there..on page 712, pic 2, 11th edition...I see almost the exact same picture of your blue fish. The only slight differance is this fish in the book has a slight yellow along his top dorsal fin in addition to the blues and blacks. They have 6 differant elongatus in the book and they each look differant.

If you can find this book..I bet you could further see if it is closer to your fish than I can tell.
Hello again Matt. Thanks for your research. I don't have Dr. Axelrod's Atlas, although I think I may have looked at a copy in years past when I managed a pet store. What I do have is volume one of the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, as well as the Lake Malawi Cichlids book published by Barron's Books. Neither has a Melanochromis Elongatus in it.

Can you please provide me with the full scientific names of the fish you are referring to? I am going to conduct some more online research. It just seems to me that the thin yellow edge on the female's dorsal fin and tail may be the clue.

Thanks!
 

#17
Well, it seems that the author of that page is correct with that image. I just found this sentence on another site regarding Melanochromis Auratus:

"Sometimes the yellow stripes are turquoise or blue depending on the location where the fish may be found."

So the candidates are still:

Melanochromis Johanni
Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos
Melanochromis Auratus

So I'm still thinking that I've got one of these, or possibly a hybrid of two of the above.
BTW, there is a Melanochromis Auratus Elongatus as well, which I haven't looked at yet.
 

Matt Nace

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,470
1
38
Pennsylvania
#18
Psuedotropheus elongatus.

What throws me off is that your fish started out with horizonal strips. This fish in this book is almost adentical to yours. It's stripes are though not faded in the middle and extend vertically from the dorsal to its belly. But all the othe rmarkings and fins are the same colors.

I also think I have another fish in my tank that is an elongatus. It has vertical bars already and seems longer(hence the name) then my aratus.

When I do a search on the net, none are close to the pic you have or the one in this atlas.I found one but the stripes vertically are very dominant.

 

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#19
Hello again Matt,

Well, Pseudotropheus Elongatus is in my atlas, and I can tell you that it is definitely not my fish. None of my fish have prominent vertical bars like that. As I said, my dominant male has some vertical dark blue bars which begin at the belly, but they fade out by the middle of his body, and are overtaken by his general blue hue.

I've been asking around about this on seven different boards, and some folks are convinced that I have a hybrid of either M. Johanni, or M. Auratus. Not too many are convinced that I have M. Cyaneorhabdos.

The thing is, my females are NOT all yellow, as is the case with female M. Johanni. In fact, yellow is a minor color, and is only on a few of them, and minimally at that.

I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with knowing that I probably have some kind of Melanochromis hybrid.