Six Fish, 3 Fish; Dead Fish, Prego Fish?

[aquamama]

OK Someone (wise) please teach me (fast)! I'm tired of my kids' fish dying! And I need more info on pregnant fish too!

Short version:
For 3 yrs or so we've had a female Blue Gourami (originally bought to be companion to lone male BG, but he died 3 days later) and a Chinese Algae Eater. 2+years they were in a 10-gal tank. We found a good deal on a 30-gal tank (tank only) and about a year ago we went ahead and set it up and after cycling a month or so we moved Elvira and Tootsie (CAE) into their new home. All has been well until a month ago.

About a month ago we bought 4 platies to add to the tank. We floated them a few hours and then slowly intro'd the tank water into their bag... a few hours later they were all in the tank.

Within a few days one died.

Not sure why - but noticing poor color in Elvira (the one fish we were familiar with as to color changes) we got worried the new fish had brought in some parasite or disease. Bought some treatment (broadrange) tablets recommended by a friend who's had multiple fw tanks and all sorts of fish for years. Five days of treatment... all seems well.

One of the platies is growing lots faster than the other 3 - and we learn that one is female and the other 3 are male.

Went to petco in the city and looked over options for fry, etc. and came home with bushy plant thingys that you can position on bottom or float on top or attach to sides.

Bought a small live plant too.

Also bought a heater to make sure water temp stays more constant as winter's coming already.

Soaked and rinsed all new stuff and added to tank. Put in some stress coat after.

Discovered Tootsie dead the next morning.
Live plant was dug up and floating in pieces on top.

Removed Tootsie.
Removed all pieces of plant.
Watched tank closely next several days.
Noticed the remaining 2 male platies were constantly pestering the female platy... no matter where she hid. There are several places - plants, caves, logs, - to hide but they can get wherever she goes.
Decided to move her with some of the tank water (&plants and one cave) to a 1-gal acrylic container. Within a few minutes she calmed down and seemed to be happier.

Went out the next day and bought a 1.5 gal tank set up - with hood, light, air pump, filter, etc. plus gravel and more plants. Set it up using mix of water and gravel from 30-gal tank and the 1-gal container. Added plants and included one of the two floaty-bushy things. Gave it a few hours to get the water mixed well and settle things - then put her in it.
Hershey loves her new home - eats well - seems happy - and is still growing larger. We are noticing little black dots on her underbelly when we get the change to see it.

3 days after moving her we discover one of the males in the big tank is missing... a thorough search finds him dead near the same cave where we found Tootsie. I just realized they were almost in the exact same spot too! But maybe that's because it's good hideaway type spot.

It's been a week since then, and Elvira and Silver seem to be doing ok. The water is cloudy but that may be from taking out and replacing about 8 gals of it shortly after the last fishdeath. A new filter cartridge went in then too. I'm getting a mix of advice - some say take the fish out and completely clean the tank and everything in it; some say just change out the water and filter more often for a few times. I'm not sure what to even look for and feel like no one knows if the 2 remaining fish are well, will be ok, or will succumb to whatever it is. And no idea how to find out for sure.

We have no idea when Hershey got pregnant (before or after we got her, etc) and have been told and read platies are pregnant anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months, so not at all sure what to expect there. And is it possible for her to be sick or in danger from whatever is going on with the big tank? I thought about doing a fresh tank for her but needed to move her pretty quickly. The plan for now is to put her back in the 30gal tank after she delivers the babies and let them grow in the little tank for awhile, then move them to the big tank too.

And now Elvira is the only big fish... should we keep it that way or get another blue gourami - the ones I've seen in petco are half her size now.

OH - any ideas on lifespans of these types of fish?
We'll also get some type of algae eater(s) again too - just not sure what or when right now.

I know it's a lot for a newbie - but thanks in advance for all your help!

 

[Newman]

ok, ill suggest only the things that i know might be affecting your situation.

First, if you have not already, get a liquid test kit to test parameters in your tanks. get at least ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH tests. KH and GH are also neat to have.

Therefore you can test your own water, and see what is wrong for yourself.

Do not keep a 1:3 ratio of female platy to male platy. other way around. 3 females for every male. had you not moved the female, she woulda have been chased to death.

I hope you cycled, or added some foam filter media from your main tank to your small platy birthing tank. otherwise the platy might die of ammonia poisoning. Good move with using the 30 gal gravel in the smaller tank. that will add some bacteria.

Poor/pale color, fish staying near bottom or top, and obvious fish death are signs of bad water quality. again test the water and see what you can do to correct it. Weekly water changes really help. if water quality is bad (ie. ammonia or nitrite levels are present) do a daily 10-25% water change to try and remove it.

stress coat and stress zyme arent really all that necessary. they often do not do what they promise to do.

Ok new filter cartrige was a bad idea if you simply just swapped them. you shoulda left the old one floating in the tank so all the benefitial bacteria you were building didnt get taken out. Chances are now youll have to cycle it again. I do not know if the filter packet you replaced is the only type of media in your filter. Never replace all the filter media at once. you lose all the bacteria that way. Always rinse filter media in TANK WATER to clean it. tap will kill the bacteria.

Platy live around 3 years. gourami maybe a bit longer.
I would wait on the algae eaters until your water reads 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and less than 20 nitrates.

What type of plant was it? i suggest the only live plant you should buy for a tank like that is either java moss, java fern, or anubias.

 

[aquamama]

Thanks for the reply Newman!

ok, ill suggest only the things that i know might be affecting your situation.

First, if you have not already, get a liquid test kit to test parameters in your tanks. get at least ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH tests. KH and GH are also neat to have.

Therefore you can test your own water, and see what is wrong for yourself.


I don't have any test kit. Cost is an issue - but I will try to get one. I was in Petco today looking at some. They have several individual tests but at $7-9/ea I could not easily afford to buy six of them. There were some tests that were strips you put in the tank water - one was sold out so I'm not sure what all it tested; the other had one box left for $15 and it tested for six things - I think all you listed. They also had two kits with assorted bottles of stuff - one had six bottles, the other had 8... they both had test tubes to use and claimed accurate results in minutes or instantly. I couldn't see everything the bigger kit had in it but the price was $50 and the smaller one was $35.

What do I look for in finding what's the right kit to get?

Is there anywhere online where I might find it cheaper?

Is there a certain brand that's "better" than the others?




Do not keep a 1:3 ratio of female platy to male platy. other way around. 3 females for every male. had you not moved the female, she woulda have been chased to death.


When we bought them we had no idea of the sexes. It was an impulse buy and the guy getting them out of the tank didn't seem to know too much about any of them. Each was selected just because of it's appearance.

I only know one person who keeps fish and was talking to her after buying them about how to tell who's male and who's female. She's the one that told me the female was pregnant and the males will keep on with chasing her so much she'd be exhausted and could die - so we found something else to keep her in and moved her. She's doing well now.

As for the 3 males we bought - 2 have died so when the female goes back into the 30 gal tank it will be a 1/1 ratio.


I hope you cycled, or added some foam filter media from your main tank to your small platy birthing tank. otherwise the platy might die of ammonia poisoning. Good move with using the 30 gal gravel in the smaller tank. that will add some bacteria.


Ok, now I'll really show my ignorance. LOL

What is this foam media you're talking about?

When we set up the 1.5 gal tank I used maybe 2 cups of gravel scooped from the bottom of the 30 gal tank, plus 1/2 cup or so of new gravel. We used one cave and one floating bushy plastic plant from the big tank and 3 new plastic aquarium plants. 75% of the water for the small tank came from the big tank and the rest from the container we moved her to until we bought the 1.5gal tank.

The filter in this little tank is tiny but probably fine for this size. It sits inside the tank with an air pump attached (air pump sits outside the tank). Inside the filter is a carbon cartridge - it's about 3 or 4 inches long and maybe 1.5-2 inches wide - it's a white material with black carbon stuff inside and you're supposed to rinse it before putting it into the filter.

Somehow I've learned about cycling and that setting up a new tank includes time with everything running for a few days before adding the fish. Due to out need to move the female I thought it best to try to set this one up with stuff that already carried the things that do the cycling (bacteria, etc) so she could go into it right away (in about 3 hours or so). I haven't made time to learn about the whole process. Just gone along with things doing ok and when a problem comes up I go to my friend or I used to also go to a small pet shop where the guys there are really knowledgeable about aquariums and they've helped me work thru the problem - but they've gone out of business.

My big tank has a filter that sits in the tank but it doesn't have any air pump like the little one. Should it have one? The filter it does have also uses the white material type cartridge with black carbon stuff in it - like the little one, only 4 or 5 times bigger. It also has a black sponge like part in it too. Directions say to replace the white one once a month and rinse clean the spongy one at that time too. I've set this one up on my own - instead of buying an aquarium kit. We got the tank alone, then bought the filter for it, and gradually got the gravel and plants and hiding places. We added 30 gals of treated tap water and let it run about 2 weeks before putting any fish in it. Do you think we need to do something more or different to make it optimum for the fish?


Poor/pale color, fish staying near bottom or top, and obvious fish death are signs of bad water quality. again test the water and see what you can do to correct it. Weekly water changes really help. if water quality is bad (ie. ammonia or nitrite levels are present) do a daily 10-25% water change to try and remove it.


Until now I've only used appearance of water to estimate quality... not the best, but affordable for me. I've done monthly water changes (using a gravel vac, removing about 9-10 gals of water and then adding in either distilled or treated tap water to replace what I took out). I'm doing weekly changes right now. Will that be ok until I can buy a test kit?


stress coat and stress zyme arent really all that necessary. they often do not do what they promise to do.


This is another thing that confuses me - if these things don't really work, first how do you know if it helped or not? second, why even sell stuff that doesn't help? My friend taught me to use stress coat anytime we disturb the tank. Is there anything other than this to do to help fish that seem stressed?


Ok new filter cartrige was a bad idea if you simply just swapped them. you shoulda left the old one floating in the tank so all the benefitial bacteria you were building didnt get taken out. Chances are now youll have to cycle it again. I do not know if the filter packet you replaced is the only type of media in your filter. Never replace all the filter media at once. you lose all the bacteria that way. Always rinse filter media in TANK WATER to clean it. tap will kill the bacteria.


Yeah, it was a new filter cartridge... took out the old one (it's about a month old, looks really dirty with brownish slippery stuff all over it - that stuff is also on the inside of the filter - usually 2 times a year I'll take the whole filter out and scrub all that stuff off) and put in a new one, rinsed in tap water (never heard of rinsing in tank water (assuming that's water removed from tank)).

I'm thinking that I need to research and read up on "filter media" to find out what all is out there.


Platy live around 3 years. gourami maybe a bit longer.
I would wait on the algae eaters until your water reads 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and less than 20 nitrates.

What type of plant was it? i suggest the only live plant you should buy for a tank like that is either java moss, java fern, or anubias.

Our gourami is at least 3 years old now... that's how long we've had her. We got her the same time we got the chinese algae eater that just died.

Not sure what type of plant - didn't see any like it in Petco today - it had long leaves, like 4 to 6 inches long and was packaged... and the cheapest. In the past I've bought packets of assorted bulbs and about half will grow at all and they've usually died off within a year. Guess I need to research this more too.

 

[Newman]

I'm sorry... i just typed an entire list of stuff to answer your above questions for about 40 min, and the stupid computer went into another page as i was nearing the end of my post. needless to say it all got deleted...i'm a little bit angry right now and dont know if i can type it all again...

can someone else answer these? im sure they would have more accurate info than what iwas typing anyway...

I'm about to punch a hole in my monitor...so pissed that it wasted my time *ALL*

 

[aquamama]

I'm sorry... i just typed an entire list of stuff to answer your above questions for about 40 min, and the stupid computer went into another page as i was nearing the end of my post. needless to say it all got deleted...i'm a little bit angry right now and dont know if i can type it all again...

can someone else answer these? im sure they would have more accurate info than what iwas typing anyway...

I'm about to punch a hole in my monitor...so pissed that it wasted my time *ALL*

Hey Newman, sorry about the computer probs. I so hate when that happens, especially when I spent so much time on it. Maybe later you can write it again or maybe parts of it at a time.

I'll look forward to seeing your replies later. Thanks so much!

Hershey (the pregnant platy in the 1.5 gal tank) has begun having her babies. We noticed two about 30 mins ago... up to 7 I think now... and she still looks pretty big and boxy.

 

[Newman]

Ok ill try to answer the first questions on the tests.

1. a) basic necessities are tests for: Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and pH
b) try some of the sponsored sites in the threads at the bottom of the forum.
c) you should be looking for the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. often times a $35 value.

 

[Newman]

OK, now for the platy ratio question/ suggestion:

Get one or two more females. this will keep the male busy, and distribute any stress done to the females quite evently(rather than just one being bothered all the time)

 

[Newman]

As for the following filter media/cycling question:

1. i mean any sponge/floss looking filter insert thing when i say foam filter media. Aquaclear foam is a great example. it can be cut into any shape really. I use it to cover filter intakes in tanks with fry, and basically inside any canister filter i own.

2. You dont really need the carbon unless you need to clear the water from brown/ colored water (from driftfood tannins leeching out) or if you want to get rid of copper-based meds. You can just use the foam media, and somthing like ceramic rings for the bacteria to grow on. http://s3.amazonaws.com/tc-photos/11442/product/standard/501779.jpg These work good in any filter, provided you can fit them into the filter and keep them down (or inside the mesh they come with) Eheim Substrat is another substitute.

3. If its not a sponge filter, no it doesnt have to have an air pump. What bothers me is that you only ran the main tank for 2 weeks. oramlly a cycle takes about three times that time period. 6 weeks. And thats only provided you added ammonia to the tank. if you didnt, then the tank never cycled, and the tank just waster 2 weeks of your time. As you added the fish, they produced their ammonia, which astarted the cycle, and as the ammonia spiked like it should, some fish were lost. This is all hypothetical. i dont know the details of your cycling method.