Fish in Cycle ?

[billswin]

I was talked into Fish in Cycle by 2 LFS.

Day 3 and the levels are 1.0 ammonia, 0 Nitrate, 0 Nitrite. I understand that the levels will raise, should I do a partial water change 15-20 % or just let it cycle? I also hear that a product Amquel will help with the Ammonia poisoning but won't hurt the cycle, maybe try this?

I don't want to mess up the cycle process, but want to keep the water the best it can be for the little guys.

Any help would be great.

 

[BlueStraggler]

I would go ahead and do the water changes and I would also keep monitoring those levels.
I would skip the amquel or any other additives. I don't believe you need them or that they work. Patience and water changes and everything should work out fine.
Also, when your levels raise, you'll want to do more than a 15-20 percent water change. Try like a 50 percent. Good luck

 

[Newman]

dont use amquel...

 

[Stillness]

Yeah, don't use chemicals. more harm than good most of the time. Water changes are really the only way to overcome these problems. Good luck!

 

[JRB__]

This is a rough guide for the fish in cycle

Day 1
The newly-added fish have not yet produced any measurable amount of ammonia. All readings should be near zero.
*Note – If you’re setting up the tank ahead of adding fish, the Cycle will not begin until a source of ammonia is added. i.e. Your new fish.

Day 3
Ammonia levels will begin to rapidly rise to near-dangerous; break-in fish may show some signs of discomfort and stress such as rapid breathing, poor feeding and darting about. First stage bacteria are beginning to become established, but their numbers are low at this point.

Day 5
Ammonia levels reach their peak and begin to decline as first stage bacteria start to convert it into nitrite. Nitrite levels begin to rise. *Note - Weaker fish may succumb to ammonia poisoning; a partial water change will dilute ammonia and reduce stress for a brief period. No more than 20% (more than this is likely to prolong the cycle process)

Day 8
First stage bacteria are well established and are processing ammonia as fast as the fish are producing it. Ammonia levels return to zero and nitrites climb rapidly. Fish may perk up due to temporary reprieve from stressful conditions.

Day 14
Nitrite levels reach their peak. Fish may again show some signs of distress. Small water changes (up to 20%) can help protect break-in fish and reduce stress without significantly prolonging cycling time.

Day 27
Nitrite levels continue to be elevated (can last for several weeks) as the second stage bacteria begin turning nitrite into nitrate.

Day 29
Second stage bacteria multiply rapidly and begin to catch up with built up nitrite. Nitrite levels drop rapidly and nitrate level becomes detectable.

Day 30
Both first and second stage bacteria are now well established and can keep up with the ammonia output of the fish, turning it first into nitrite and then immediately into nitrate. Do a 50%+ water change and a thorough gravel vaccum. Tank is now "cycled" and ready for additional fish. Add no more than 2-3 at a time, also allowing time after each new addition for the bacterial colonies to cope with the increased bio-load.

 

[Newman]

nice, did you make this journal while you were cycling some of your tanks? should be helpful
It should be noted though that as ammonia or nitrite spikes, fish will die. thats almost 100% if the levels are 5ppm.

 

[brian1973]

Looks like you got some pretty good advice already but what kind of water dechlorinator are you using? I would recommend using Prime, it removes chlorine, chloramine and it also binds ammonia (turns NH3 to NH4) which still alows the cycle to occur and helps keep your fish safer, however since test kits do not discern NH3 from NH4 you will still show ammonia readings. I would still do PWC when your ammonia level reaches 1ppm however test your tap water as well, you may find it reads 1ppm of ammonia out of the tap, the is from the use of chloramine in water treatment plants. Once your tank is cycled any ammonia present in tap water will disappear within a day.

 

[JRB__]

.....It should be noted though that as ammonia or nitrite spikes, fish will die. thats almost 100% if the levels are 5ppm.

This is very true, yet the fish-in method is still by far the most common way..*thumbsdow

 

[billswin]

I am a bit confused, day 6 with 4 fish (african cichlids). The problem I am having is that my API test kit shows 1.0 ammonia. I have been doing water changes every other day to get the levels down and using prime.

The problem is before doing the water change, I tested my tap water (city water) and its giving a reading of 1.0 ammonia directly from the tap. So my tank matches exactly. What should I do? Do I bother doing a water change, how can I tell whats good/bad etc... This seems like it makes it a lot more difficult when trying to keep the fish safe.

My Nitrates, and Nitrites have been 0 every day. My PH is 7.8 and temp is 78 degrees.

What do I do, what do I look for, how do I know when to do a water change

 

[Newman]

keep doing what youre doing. treat the tap with prime many hours before changing the water. it sounds like it defeats the purpose of changing the water, but the prime takes care of the 1ppm. it just takes much more time with fish to see a climb in ammonia, and a very long time to see any nitrite at all...
sorry but this can take well over a month =/

 

[billswin]

the problem is even if I treat the NEW water with prime it shows as 1.0 ppm since its just turned into something that still registers but not harmful. I don't mind doing the water changes and stuff, but how do I know if the tank needs a water change at all.

It shows 1.0 ammonia right now, everything looks fine. How can it show 0 or lower than 1.0?

 

[Newman]

its not going to until you pass the ammonia spike and start getting a spike in nitrite. so dont expect to see 0 ammonia for a while until then.

It's up to you when to do a water change. i'd say when the tank reads 2ppm, cuz now you got 1 more ppm of toxic ammonia in there with the 1ppm of detoxified ammonia. or to be safe do it sooner. like in two or three days. because you dont know how much detoxified ammonia is being consumed vs the toxic (newly produced ammonia) so that could mean that you have more than 1ppm of toxic ammonia when it reads 2ppm.

I understand that coulda been hard to follow...

 

[brian1973]

I am going to disagree and say wait until you see 1.5ppm of ammonia, then do the water change as I and Newman have said Prime will render the ammonia harmless so your fish should be ok, atleast seeing the rise will let you know your fish are producing the rise in ammonia and not the tap water. The simple truth is you are in for a very long cycling time, up to 2 months is not uncoommon for a fish in cycle and doing water changes everyday. Your goal is to see a rise in Nitrites that is when the cycle really begins.

 

[Newman]

ya 1.5 ppm sounds safer.

 

[OrangeCones]

the problem is even if I treat the NEW water with prime it shows as 1.0 ppm since its just turned into something that still registers but not harmful. I don't mind doing the water changes and stuff, but how do I know if the tank needs a water change at all.

It shows 1.0 ammonia right now, everything looks fine. How can it show 0 or lower than 1.0?

Ammonia Alert works well to detect only the ammonia that is harmful to the fish. My LFS sells them for $7 and they last over a year.

 

[Newman]

yah you mean those ammonia dials?

 

[JRB__]

Don't over do your water changes, it'll only prolong the cycling time. Ammonia in high levels is what kicks off the whole process, constantly lowering levels with W/C's stops it from ever starting. The simple fact is, you WILL lose some fish during the cycle. Prime will help to detox the ammonia but unless you are constantly adding it, harmful ammonia will be in there.

 

[OrangeCones]

yah you mean those ammonia dials?

Yes. They are made by the same company (Seachem) that makes Prime.

 

[OrangeCones]

The simple fact is, you WILL lose some fish during the cycle. Prime will help to detox the ammonia but unless you are constantly adding it, harmful ammonia will be in there.

Since I concentrate now on planted tanks, I don't cycle a tank at all anymore with bacteria.

But, I disagree with this. I've never lost a fish during a fish-in cycle since using Prime.

 

[JRB__]

....But, I disagree with this. I've never lost a fish during a fish-in cycle since using Prime.

Well to be totally honest I have done fish-in cycles probably 90% of the time and I rarely lose any fish, and yes prime is what makes the difference, so your right. I guess I just wanted to point out that for most people the reality is fish deaths unless your willing to invest the money for the right chems (prime for example) and the time to constantly check levels, make adjustments and also what fish you are trying to cycle with, I've found guppies, for example, don't tend to fair to well. Although I currently have guppies in a cycling tank who seem A ok.... everyones experience is different.