Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

[SantaMonica]

Final screen version

The previous screen material that I had people testing was starting to rip where the tie-wraps went through, so it was not working. I did find a custom manufactured solution to solve this, which used a solid sheet on the inside of the screen, but it was just too much money. So it looks like the best screen material for me to offer is extreme-roughened, double-layered, plastic canvas.

As you know, if you already tried to rough up plastic canvas, all the work is in making it rough. You have to use a hole-saw (by hand), since sandpaper does not leave the "jagged" pieces that you want. You really need the jagged pieces which will grab hold of the algae, so the algae won't let go and fall into the water. This is of course because more algae growth (i.e, more filtering) means more weight. You DO want lots of algae (weight), but you DON'T want it to fall off of the screen. And both sides of both layers needs to be rough, so that algae will stay on the inside (between the layers) of the screen after you clean the outsides. And since the algae stays on the inside of the screen, you can clean the outside as hard as you want (scrape all the algae off) without worrying about "keeping some algae on the the screen".

So since this material has already been proven by hundreds of people who are using it right now (athough I never see it roughed up enough), it is just a matter of how much money is fair for a completed screen. If there is enough interest, then I'll start selling them.

It looks like I can make them for 20 cents per square inch. This is equal to:

0.20 USD per square inch
.032 USD per square cm
2.65 MXN per square inch
0.43 MXN per square cm
0.22 CAD per square inch
.035 CAD per square cm
0.14 EUR per square inch
.023 EUR per square cm
0.12 GBP per square inch
0.02 GBP per square cm
0.28 NZD per square inch
0.45 NZD per square cm
0.28 SGD per square inch
.045 SGD per square cm
1.49 ZAR per square inch
.024 ZAR per square cm
1.31 FRF per square inch
0.21 FRF per square cm
2.20 NLG per square inch
0.35 NLG per square cm
70.0 PHP per square inch
11.2 PHP per square cm


Shipping would be extra of course. Also, the screen area is just the finished screen size; you don't have to think about the multiple layers. So as an example:

A 10 X 10 inch screen = 100 square inches = $20 USD = $265 MXN = $22 CAD etc.
A 40 X 60 cm screen = 2400 square cm = $76.80 USD = $1032 MXN = $84 CAD etc.
A 3 X 6 inch nano screen = 18 square inches = $3.60 USD = $48 MSN = $3.96 CAD etc.

So post on here if you would get one at this price. There needs to be enough people otherwise it is not worth setting up to do it. If there is enough interest (at this price), then I will make them.

 

[SantaMonica]

Why Algae Works

More Info:

Algae and Human Affairs, By Carole A. Lembi, J. Robert Waaland, Phycological Society of America
PSA: Phycological Society of America
Algaebase :: Listing the World's Algae

Text: 90 percent of all living matter (except bacteria) in the ocean is algae of all forms and colors. The remaining 10% (except bacteria) of all living matter in the ocean is: Corals, Plants, Sponges, Worms, Snails, Clams, Octopi, Shrimp, Crabs, Pods, Urchins, Starfish, Small Fish, Medium Fish, Big Fish, Sharks, Whales, Giant Squids, and Everything Else. The algae is what does all the filtering of the waste from the animals, and the algae is also what feeds all the animals through the various food webs.

Aquariums, however (especially ones without refugiums), have no algae to do the filtering or feeding. So all the filtering has to be done manually with equipment, and all the feeding has to be done manually too. At least with a refugium, there is some filtering and feeding, although most refugiums are far too small to do all of it. Scrubbers are powerful enough to do all the filtering by themselves, and can do a lot of the feeding too, if copepods are the food that is desired.

 

[SantaMonica]

Successes Update:

Jlinzmaier on the RC site: "An ATS is the easiest and the cheapest DIY project I've ever done. Not to mention it has been more effective at nutrient management than carbon dosing, and has only affected the corals positively (no chance of stripping nutrients too fast or too low as you might run into with carbon source dosing.) The maintenance of it only takes 5-10 minutes once or twice a week. Total cost for the project was no more than $30 and it took about 45 min to build."

Pistolshrimp on the SARK site: "i have one of these in my sump, not eleborate though jus got one cfl spotlight on it, but they do a good job, hardly eva have to wipe my glass, it transfers 90% of the algea growth from my tank to the screen."

Trichome on the CR site: "I installed one on my 29g tank and it is working better than my AquaC Remora that is rated for up to 75g. Best part about it is its cheap as hell to install and i was able to remove a pump from my set up to save money on electricity."

Jennyfish on the AP site: "i use an ATS but i also use a skimmer, i do find since i added the ATS i have no phosphates, and my water is crystal clear with no bad algaes growing."

Schnitm on the algae scrubber site: "Our friend was moving to a new house, and her 90 gallon system wasn't moving with her. So it took 10 hours to move everything [to my daughter's room] and we're just about to put the fish back in. I decide I'll test the water first. I have never seen a nitrate test change color so fast. By the time I'd finished shaking the vial it had maxed out. After some RO/DI dillution I finally got a reading along with some others from my Red Sea Marine Lab kit:

Nitrates: 300
Nitrite: 0.3
Ammonia: 0.25
Phosphate: 5.0

After freaking out and figuring I'd done something wrong and effectively killed my daughter's new aquarium, I decided I'd better test the water the fish were still in. It had come straight from the top of the tank that morning. I got something like:

Nitrates: 400
Nitrite: 0.4
Ammonia: 0.25
Phosphate: 5.0

Seems the fish had been living in this and we'd just dilluted it some with the water change from toping off the tank. 3 anemones and a dozen soft corals were living in this too. So, in go the fish. I'm running around trying to figure out what to do. The protien skimmer is dead and hasn't worked for more than a year (thanks for telling me now!). The LFS store is closed because their moving too. I'd been "priming" an ATS screen in my shop using wastewater from our Bio Cube. It had been going for about 2 weeks and was nicely green but not thick at all yet. What the heck...I slap it in the sump and start it running with 4 CFL floods from WalMart. Then to bed to have nightmares of my daughter waking to a tank full of death.

To my pleasant surprise, the next morning everything was alive and, apparently, well! I go to work installing the hood, chiller, etc. By that evening I took another water sample and got:

Nitrates: 200
Nitrite: 0.2+
Ammonia: 0.25
Phosphate: 5.0

Everything seemed fine. I'm wondering if I'd messed up the readings on Thursday. Saturday was mostly a day off. The ATS had grown thick already so I scraped it. Just a few measurements:

Nitrates: not measured
Nitrite: 0.2
Ammonia: 0.25
Phosphate: not measured

Last night's water parameters:

Nitrates: 15 (I kid you not. 15. Checked this over and over. The 10X dillution I started with showed undetectable. I'd needed a 10X dillution before, just to get a reading. Got this 15 on straight tank water.)

Nitrite: 0.2
Ammonia: trace
Phosphate: 3.0

Thursday night I thought I was in the middle of a slow motion trainwreck, but by today all looks good. Thaks to all who have contributed! You lead me down the right path.

 

[SantaMonica]

Update: RC has un-blocked "scrubber", "algaescrubber", and other scrubber-related words.

Update: Algae on rocks: If you are building a scrubber to help remove algae from your rocks, don't remove the algae from the rocks manually. Let it stay there so it can do some filtering while your scrubber starts growing. The algae on the rocks will start disappearing after you have cleand off about three scrubber screens. It's also fun to watch it disappear.

 

[SantaMonica]

RainerFeyer on the RC site: "My tank is 75g, 230W T5 lighting, about 8-9 years old now (was FOWLER for 2 years before that). I started a little more than 2 months ago with a vertical ATS. Very happy with it: 3 lights, 20W each, 350GPH flow. I added a horizontal scrubber purely because, by fault of my design, cleaning screens was cumbersome, plus, the size of the scrubber was not preferred. So, been running a verical now for less than one week (aside the horizontal) and all is well so far. Once the Horizontal is well established, I will remove the Vertical. Have been without PS for 6 weeks now! The change in the tank is just amazing! No more algae or cyano, and, the sps which [previously] started dying (probably from nitrates / phosphates/ lack of food) is starting to come back! Thanks for the idea, all of you and especially SM and Worley!"

Jauld on the RC site: "N and P have been 0 since installation. This is the only filtration I have on my aquarium and I do a 20% water change monthly. this [scrubber] one has been running for nearly 3 months now with 0 problems. When I first set this model up, I accidentally used a metal nozzle that released some bad metals into the aquarium and I lost a frogspawn. After that, I changed out the nozzle and did an 80% water change. been fine ever since. Before I installed this [scrubber], my tank was COMPLETELY filled with algae (almost no rock visible). I let this thing run and after about 6 weeks, the algae started to thin and die in the DT. Then, at 8 weeks, I took the rock out piece by piece and scrubbed all the remaining algae off. 0 algae growth since that in the DT, but the screen grows a TON. I have before and afters pics if you really want to see. I found that the DT [water] will start getting cloudy after about 2-3 weeks IF i don't scrub the algae off the screen every 7-10 days. This is because so much algae is growing on the screen that when it starts to get thick, the algae underneath doesn't get any light and starts to die, releasing the stuff that makes the water quality suffer. However, as long as I clean the screen 3 times a month (takes 3-5 min), the water stays clear as day. This thing is such low maint. and is the sole reason i'm still in this hobby. I was planning to quit since I couldnt get the algae growth under control."

Gowingsgo on the RC site: "I just added a ATS to my system and have found that it did reduce my nitrates down to 0. from about 5 ppm. I still use my skimmer but have found that I do not have to clean it as much, and that the skim-mate is much darker in color. I have attached a few photos of my new sump. I built my sump the way I did with 5 separate chambers. (1 intake from main tank) (2 ATS) (3 skimmer) (4 fuge with live rock and sand so if I need to I can also put stuff in my sump) (5 return to main tank). I set up the ATS not to remove nitrates but to remove algae from my display tank (and that is exactly what it is doing). I now clean my glass about every 4 days and I used to do it every day. This is not for everyone but I wanted to give it a try and have found that I am very happy with my results. BTW I over feed my fish and corals a lot so I was very happy with the nitrates dropping down to zero. I will most likely keep my skimmer on line. even if it stops skimming. I like knowing that if I get something in my tank that skimmer is there to remove it."

Av8BlueWater on the MD site: "In 2 weeks all my cyano was gone. I didn't have a huge problem , but it was there. In 3 weeks, nitrates were 20-30 (down from 40-60), 4 weeks nitrates = 15, then the first week I notice nitrates = 0 was about 9 weeks total. I started June 24, and Nitrate zero on Sept 2. It was a happy day. My PO4 here lately is .02-.03 (tested with photometer) but I also still run rowaphos. I had an area of GHA about the size of my fist a few months ago, and now it's the size of a pea, but it is still there. I'm also an overfeeder."

MyFishEatYourFish on the MFK site: "update on my tank. no waterchanges since completion of ats over six months ago with multiple thriving sps, polyps, and a softies. [DT] algae growth is slowed, though what algae does grow is much harder than normal because it is corraline and that crappy tough brown stuff. my plants, chaeto and small grape calerpa show almost no growth, unfortunately xenia grows much slower than i would like too. one thing that everyone skimping on waterchanges must know is to keep up on additives, coral vite, calcium, magnesium, stonium, molebdenum essential elements etc. the best part is my nitrates and phosphates are still undetectable!!! thanks santa monica for starting this great thread!

 

[SantaMonica]

A quote from Eric Borneman on feeding SPS corals, from
Mything the Point: Part One by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com

"Corals with small polyps do not necessarily require more or less light than those with larger polyps. The only real difference between corals with small polyps and corals with large polyps is the size of the prey they can consume. Many small polyped corals, such as Pocillopora damicornis and Stylophora pistillata, are highly photoadaptive and can be found in very deep water. The genus Acropora has more species than any other coral and, as might be expected, can be found in similarly varied locations. Species of Acropora are found in deep water and shallow water, high water flow and low water flow. Furthermore, corals with small polyps have been found in many studies to consume more prey than corals with large polyps (see Borneman's article on feeding corals in Reefkeeping 2002 for pertinent references). The belief that large polyped corals need to be fed more than small polyped corals is just wrong."

[skimmers remove coral food; scrubbers add coral food]

 

[SantaMonica]

Excerpts from "Our Coral Reef Aquaria - Our Own Personal Experiments in the effects of Trace Element Toxicity" by Ron Shimek
Our Coral Reef Aquaria by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

"Trace elements in heightened concentrations are considered to be poisons, nothing more, nothing less, by every researcher examining them."

"With regard to arsenic (when found), copper, nickel, tin, and zinc, the average tank water must be considered as being polluted with heavy metals."

"The water from the average reef tank is clearly dangerous to the organisms put into it [because of too many trace elements]."

"What causes these excessively high trace metal concentrations? Initially, the problem occurs with artificial seawater mixes that have abnormally high concentrations of these materials [...] Also, there is inadequate export of the materials due to any number of causes, but including such factors as poor skimming, inadequate water changes, and inadequate biomass export. Finally, in some cases well-meaning, but ill-advised aquarists often add supplements containing unknown quantities of some trace elements."

"There are NO data that any trace element additions are beneficial, and for any trace element for which there are data, excess amounts are detrimental. No adequate test kits exist for the vast majority of these materials, and few supplements list their ingredients in a trustworthy manner. Consequently, it is prudent not to add any at all to a system."

[Scrubbers remove metals]

 

[SantaMonica]

Success Updates:

Coolhandgoose on the scrubber site: "Since I installed the new light two weeks ago my nitrates have gone from 20 to 0. The cyano in my display is now starting to disappear."

Desert_Fishy on the SWF site: "I started my 75g reef 5 months ago (2nd venture w/SW) and decided to start up with a scrubber and no skimmer due to this thread. All I have are powerheads, lights, scrubber and a heater. My water readings are perfect, corals are really flourishing, fish are happy and I spend 10 minutes a week cleaning the algae off the scrubber - although that is becoming a bigger and bigger job. My only problem now is that copepods, feather dusters and some other small pink bug-like creatures that live on the glass are multiplying out of control. I have feather dusters everywhere!"

Toddo on the MFK site: "This is my 125 freshwater tank with medium bio load. I have an XP3 with Biomax/mech pads, and this scrubber as the only filtration now. Its been 12 days with just the scrubber for nitrate control. Nitrates and ammonia are still at zero. No water changes. This is significant, as my well water is 35-40ppm Nitrates. It grows enough algae to need weekly cleaning now. I had a specific freshwater requirement for low to no nitrates, and I have met that, using my scrubber. It was properly designed and built using info provided, and is now functioning as expected."

DeathWish302 on the RC site: "The turf scrubber slowly drove out the cyano, and has been amazingly processing EVERYTHING I have thrown at the tank in regards to food."

AlgaeNator on the scrubber site: "I have been running a version of ATS for about 2 months, and have been skimmerless for 4 weeks now, and am very happy with the ATS concept and performance so for. I have been running my prototype Victory Scrump for about 3 weeks now, to prove the concept and it's working VERY well. My corals are healthier than EVER, Two of MY RIC's that were dying going clear, are now SPLITTING after removing the skimmer. Im amazed actually at how well my other softies are doing too. In my case, I might not be typical though, as I think i was OVERSKIMMING my tank with my larger skimmers i build and sell, removing the good stuff with the bad"

Manuelink on the scrubber site [from spanish]: "with algal over 4 months without water changes, no skimmer, no additives anything, just food and my corals growing like additives. the coralline algae and is infested by all sides, that speaks of good levels of alk and calcium. is a wonder this invention"

 

[SantaMonica]

I now have a system to make double-layered, cactus-rough, plastic canvas screens:
Algae Scrubbers • View topic - Now Available: Screens you can buy

If there is a sales or vendor forum where this would be better placed, let me know.

 

[SantaMonica]

The trick of skimmer popularity

In my reading of what is going on lately with the discussions of skimmer vs. skimmerless tanks, I'm seeing the same fallacy repeated over and over and over, usually by the most experienced reefers who have been around the longest: "Because everyone uses skimmers, a skimmer must be required or else they wouldn't use one." Or, "Every Tank-Of-The-Month has a skimmer, therefore a skimmer is required to give you the best chance of a TOTM."

It's all completely irrelevant. I can't believe how many people fall for this line of reasoning. This trick is taught in Debate class in high school; It's called "Appeal to Poplulariy", otherwise known at Argumentum ad populum...

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On a side note, realize that many people are paid to promote skimmers. Millions of dollars are put into the marketing and promotion of skimmers, and some of that money goes into the pockets of the people who are posting reasons to have skimmers. Also, there must be a hundred companies who make skimmers, and all of them have promotion budgets. The job of promotion is to "get the word out". How many Algae Scrubber companies have promotion budgets? Zero, because there are no companies. Scrubbers are DIY. This is why the "popular thinking" is to use a skimmer... because skimmers are all anyone reads about. Promotion is my day job, and this is exactly how it works.

 

[SantaMonica]

A new scrubber FAQ is posted:
Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ (12/17/09)

 

[SantaMonica]

Update: Cleaning algae off of the rocks.

If you are running a scrubber to help remove algae from the display, try first running the scrubber without manually removing algae off of the rocks. This is because when you scrub algae off of the rocks (or if you put a lawnmower or similar in) while the rocks are still in the tank, the algae will float around and die, causing a nutrient spike. It's better to let the scrubber slowly remove the algae for you. This will prevent spikes, and is less work too.

However, if there are LOTS of algae in the display (so much so that the phosphate and nitrate tests are zero), then your scrubber may not easily compete, even after many weeks. So if after four weeks you don't notice a reduction in algae in the display, then slowly start removing algae manually from the display (or, add a small algae eater). Don't remove TOO much algae at once (or don't get TOO big of an algae eater) because that will generate a spike too. Once the algae in the display has been reduced some, your scrubber should be able to take over from there, and all the rest of the nuisance algae should slowly go away.

Note: This does not apply if you remove the rocks from the system before cleaning. Removing rocks can be done at any time, but is much more work.

 

[SantaMonica]

New Year Update: Screen Roughness

It's becoming more and more clear how important a rough screen is. A year ago it was thought that lighting was most important, but only because you could see new growth easily from stronger light. The effects of a smooth screen are not nearly as obvious, because you start losing small pieces of algae off the screen bit-by-bit, but they are covered up by the other algae. So here is an example of how fast a brand-new screen can grow; it is just 4 days old, but it is two layers of cactus-rough plastic canvas:

Which gives us a new goal:

 

[TwistedGA]

Vertical vs Horizontal Scrubbers..

SM, do you have any input on this?
I'd love to read every page of this thread but that's not gonna happen anytime soon with work and school.

I've been running a horizontal for the past 4 months and it seems to be keeping algae at bay aside from the occasional hair algae appearing in random spots, which quickly get removed by hand. It seems to be working effectively, but is it as effective as a vertical would be?

Here is the new horizontal I've been working on. Trying to dumb it down as much as possible to make building and cleaning as easy as possible. I figured a total of 60watts, 2x15w on top and on bottom completely sealed into the box, did the rendering clear to show the screen locations. Figured I could offset the cleanings to make sure there is always living algae inside the scrubber.

Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome. This scrubber will be the full length of the tank vs the 18" of the current scrubber(as seen on page 50). Increasing the width some and moving it off the top of the tank also. That is..

If SM; god of scrubbers, approves. LOL

 

[SantaMonica]

Verticals are always more effective for the same size. If your current version were strong enough, you would not get any spots of hair algae.

For your design:

The lights on the bottom are not needed; there is no flow on the bottom of the screen, and therefore no growth. So double up on the lighting on the top.

Increase the slope of the screens as much as possible; the more flat they are, the more algae will block flow as it grows thicker. Use as much flow as possible, to help water get over the growths.

Yes you want to clean just one screen per 5 days or so.

And use VERY roughed up plastic canvas.

 

[TwistedGA]

So I suppose I should turn the design on it's side and set it up for vertical operation.

Do you think running four screens and cleaning one per week would do better than two screens on bi-weekly cleanings? The reason I ask is because my screens will be much wider than they are tall. I can fit 24" of screen with a height of 6"..

I'd go taller but with plans for a canopy, any taller and the canopy would be the size of the tank. LOL

 

[SantaMonica]

No... don't let any one screen sit for more than 10 day max. 7 days preferable. Horizontal will work, just max the flow, and double the lights. Total area should be 2X gallons.

 

[TwistedGA]

No... don't let any one screen sit for more than 10 day max. 7 days preferable. Horizontal will work, just max the flow, and double the lights. Total area should be 2X gallons.

I really don't mind changing it to a vertical, the horizontal design was based primarily on what we already have, just an improved version. If vertical is the way to go, it's the way I'll make it, not a big problem.

Q: Is there such a thing as "too much screen/area"?
At 24" wide x 6" tall, my total area will be 4X gallons. This was built around the *x2 rule for horizontal scrubbers, if I go vertical and dual sided lighting, does this pose a problem?

Q: Would hanging a 4x6 screen have a different result than if it were to be hung 6x4 instead?
I assume optimum would be to have the water running on the longer part of the screen? Then again, surface area is surface area, as long as all other variants remain the same, shouldn't both ways have the same result?

Considering I really only need a screen size of 4"x5" to get 2X on my 20gal, I may rebuild the entire thing to reflect a screen of this size..

Edit; Just reading through some of the FAQ in your sig, sorry I've been asking you some stuff you've covered already.. Thanks for not being the typical forumnazi and just pointing me to the FAQ. Your time and information is greatly appreciated!

 

[SantaMonica]

Remember that area = width X height. 4 X 5 = 20, and is not 2X your volume.

Wider is better, due to increased total flow.

However, easiest for you is a 3 X 13 horizontal, flow lengthwise, with a singe 23 W CFL floodlight clipped on top. Attached to back of tank, at top.

 

[TwistedGA]

Remember that area = width X height. 4 X 5 = 20, and is not 2X your volume.

Wider is better, due to increased total flow.

However, easiest for you is a 3 X 13 horizontal, flow lengthwise, with a singe 23 W CFL floodlight clipped on top. Attached to back of tank, at top.

Ha! Good catch, I guess I was rushing through my post too fast for whatever reaosn, I meant to say 8x10.. LOL

I ended up with the same screen size I've been running using the plastic canvas roughed up as much as possible, dual layer, 4" x 14"(full sheets length)..

I'm still running the 15w "pink" fluorescent bulb I've been running. I've had really good luck with growth with this light, but that was over extended periods of time, cleaning spread more than 7 days(against better judgment)..

Plans for new lighting are to retrofit two 23w CFL floodlights into this housing, equally spaced and roughly 2-2.5" from the screen. I plan on leaning them to match the slope and positioning the one on the drain side a tad lower for the same reason. That way it's hitting the surface at 90*.

Flow IIRC is right at the minimum 35gph per 1" width, even though this is said to be enough for both vertical and horizontal in the FAQ, I really feel this flow should be increased for horizontal designs. My feed is a lot different than most shown in this thread, supplied by a direct dump vs slotted pipe which may very well be the reason my flow seems to be falling short.

I had to angle the feed away from the screen so the water has time to spread into the 4" wide channel and collect before it would flow over the dual layer plastic canvas evenly. Again, this could be entirely due to how the scrubber is fed water.

I'll let ya know how things go with the next few additions. I'm already loving this plastic canvas, very durable! *thumbsups