New Tanks: Who should I put where?

[Tomato Sandwich]

Up until a couple days ago I had only a 4 g tank. I have 1 black moor, 1 red cap oranda, 1 neon tetra, 1 common pleco, 3 african dwarf frogs. Long story short, I know (now) this is way too many for the 4 g, so the goldfish are temporarily housed in vases.

I just got two more tanks: a 10g and a 27g (according to my calculations, but I was told it was a 33 g).

The 10g is clean and dry, the 27g was horribly dirty and had tons of calcium and other deposits on it which I took off with vinegar. I rinsed it, dried it (mostly) and now am filling it with water. My plan was to fill it and then siphon portions of it out for the next couple days to make sure it is rinsed well enough. Will this work? Or do I need to do something else to make sure the acidity of the water isn't all messed up because I had to use so much vinegar? I tried 10% vinegar, but ended up using straight because it was so badly caked on. The people that gave it to me said that they just let it evaporate- 5 years ago!

I don't live in a big enough city to have a pet store, so I have to wait until the weekend and then I will get a testing kit so I can start cycling both new tanks. I need one with ammonia, nitrate, nitrite as per someone's instructions on an earlier post- what else do I need? Both tanks came with filters, but I'm assuming I should get new cartridges for them both. I also will need heaters, and I do have two little aerators (but not sure how they work or how to use them). They came with the 10g.

Also, if it's easier to do a cycle with fish, what kind are best/cheapest and how many should i get for the two tanks I have to cycle?

Lastly, (finally!) how should I distribute the fish now? I was thinking I might retire the 4 g and just use it in case of the need for quarantine and the like, so how would I distribute the remaining fish/frogs? Neons should be in schools I know, so how many more should I get to fill in the space in the tanks?

I know that was really long, I'm sorry!

Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

[RexyTexel]

I would give the 27gallon to the goldfish but even that is the minimum space they require. If you plan on keeping the neon I would get at least 5 more so he/she has a school. They tend to act crazy and lose their color when it's just one of them.

 

[paperdog9]

Yeah, put the goldfish and Pleco into the 27, then get 4 or 5 more noens and put them and the African Dwarf frogs into the 10. I would get a couple Otocinclus Catfish for the 10 as well, they are small and help with algea, hope I helped (a little)

 

[Tomato Sandwich]

Do the neons really need that much space? If I have the goldfish, the pleco and 5 neons will it be seriously overcrowded? I just think it will look so empty and lonely with just 3 tiny fish in such a big tank. The schooling neons would just add so much gorgeous colour...
When the goldfish start getting a lot bigger then I could move the neons out...
Horrible idea probably? haha

 

[SonofaGun]

The biggest problem I see with putting the neons and the goldfish in the same tank is that the goldfish are cold-water fish, meaning you can and should house them in an aquarium without a heater. The neons are tropicals, and I'd think the temperature requirements for the two types of fish would be very different. I certainly may stand to be corrected (I'm new at this whole aquarium game, too - well, new to knowing that there was a proper way to do things!)

ETA: Also, I'm not sure how big your moor and oranda are now, but at their adult size, they can get quite big (a friend of mine used to have several in a hex and they were big fish, especially compared to their juvenile size) and from what I've read, I would think that with just those two in a 29 gallon, you will already be quite overstocked once they start to grow larger, even if you wanted to add more fish like white clouds (which do well in cold-water set-ups moreso than tropical.)

 

[Tomato Sandwich]

The biggest problem I see with putting the neons and the goldfish in the same tank is that the goldfish are cold-water fish, meaning you can and should house them in an aquarium without a heater. The neons are tropicals, and I'd think the temperature requirements for the two types of fish would be very different. I certainly may stand to be corrected (I'm new at this whole aquarium game, too - well, new to knowing that there was a proper way to do things!)

ETA: Also, I'm not sure how big your moor and oranda are now, but at their adult size, they can get quite big (a friend of mine used to have several in a hex and they were big fish, especially compared to their juvenile size) and from what I've read, I would think that with just those two in a 29 gallon, you will already be quite overstocked once they start to grow larger, even if you wanted to add more fish like white clouds (which do well in cold-water set-ups moreso than tropical.)

I'm interested in exploring the no heater option in the 26g... if the goldfish would do better not heater and I could still have the pleco in there (does he need heat though?) that would be perfect. I'd love to have a small school of tiny fish, and if I wouldn't have heat they'd have to be something that would do well in those conditions. When the goldfish and pleco start getting way bigger, I would put the school of other fish in a different tank.

Anybody have opinions on whether this would be workable or not? One thing I must mention is I'm in a very cold location, I live in Canada, and right now it's winter and can get to -50 degrees Celcius (-58 Fahrenheit I believe). The tank is in my entry way, and although it is a large area and the tank is not right, right beside the door and the tank is enclosed (as you can see if the pics worked) I'm concerned about the temp dipping too low. What would be too low for the goldfish?

I also attached pics of my vase with the oranda in it and my crappy 4g... just so you can see how green I am and how desperately I do need your help! haha. Also, I know that to get calcium etc. deposits off in an empty tank you can use vinegar, but in the vase there are horrible deposits and how would I remove them while a fish is living there?
Thanks!

 

[bassbonediva]

I am loving the stand for that 26gal!

Anyway, the pleco should be fine with the goldies. This is what AqAdvisor had to say about the goldie/pleco combo (I used rubberlip pleco because I know they don't get very big at 5" because there WAS no "dwarf" pleco...you need to find out exactly what species of pleco you have for this to be correct). AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor If you notice the temp requirements, it's green, meaning you're good with those fish together (they like similar temps). As far as how cold it gets up north where you are...you can get a heater with a thermostat and set it at a low temp (preferably between the temps indicated by AqAdvisor) and that will keep your fishes happy. The heater will only kick on if the temp in your tank gets below what you have it set at.

 

[Tomato Sandwich]

I am loving the stand for that 26gal!

Anyway, the pleco should be fine with the goldies. This is what AqAdvisor had to say about the goldie/pleco combo (I used rubberlip pleco because I know they don't get very big at 5" because there WAS no "dwarf" pleco...you need to find out exactly what species of pleco you have for this to be correct). AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor If you notice the temp requirements, it's green, meaning you're good with those fish together (they like similar temps). As far as how cold it gets up north where you are...you can get a heater with a thermostat and set it at a low temp (preferably between the temps indicated by AqAdvisor) and that will keep your fishes happy. The heater will only kick on if the temp in your tank gets below what you have it set at.

I know- I love the stand too! I have been struggling to keep everyone alive since I really overstocked, and so I put up a want ad on a local site and some guy gave me the whole thing for $10! It was pretty filthy, but I'm very excited about it!

Regarding the heater, are there different sizes of heaters for such a big tank? I can't trust the pet store guys since I got badly burned last time! So i need to go in there knowing what I'm talking about...

Do the goldies and the pleco need aeration as well?

 

[bassbonediva]

For heaters, I found this site to be incredibly helpful. Aquarium Heater Size Guide

For aeration, I would add a bubbler or bubble wand (at the least an air stone) to the tank, just to help the goldies out. They're going to be sucking up enough of the oxygen as it is, so every little bit helps. Planting live plants will help too.

What size filter do you have (or are you going to get)?

Wow! $10 for that stand?!? I need to put up a want ad on CL! lol My 45gL is going on a coffee table because that's the only thing I have that's long enough. I'm going to try to convince my dad to help me build a nice stand for it, though, so we'll see. Imma gonna save that pic, though, and see if we can maybe build something like that.

 

[Tomato Sandwich]

Thanks for the link..

$10 for the stand AND the 26g tank and a filter (although it needs new cartridges) and a light and enough black gravel for the tank too! I love CL too, but kijiji in my area is more active so that's where I got this from. Wishing you luck finding a stand for your tank!

No idea what size the filter is... it came with the tank it says penguin 160 with biowheel on it. I just googled it and can't find that exact model to see stats about it.. plus mine doesn't have a wheel looking dealy like the 150 I found a pic of does... maybe a piece is missing? I attached pics (it's turned on even though there aren't filter pads in it so that I could see if it even worked).

Also attached pics of aerators I have (at least that's what I think they are!)... what do I need for them and how do they work? Also attached a pic of a random piece of equipment I got with my 10g... don't know what it is!

 

[bassbonediva]

Yeah, they haven't made the Penguin 160 in a while. LOL! I have the Penguin 170 and love it. It should be too hard to find the parts for the 160, though. It probably just takes the same parts as the 150. This is the parts catalogue on Marineland's website for the 170. You need parts 6, 7, and 8, if you want the BIO-Wheel assembly. My 170 runs fine without it, though. Also, don't spend the extra money to get the Marineland filter cartridges. Just go to Walmart and get the AquaTech cartridges. They're exactly the same, just cheaper (Marineland makes Regent, which makes AquaTech).

Yes, both of those in the third pic are air pumps. As long as they both work, you can use either of them. What you need is air line tubing. Again, Walmart will probably be the cheapest. Here's what you'll find at Walmart: Walmart.com: Aqua Cultures: Standard Airline Tubing, 8 ft: Fish At the end of the air line that's in the tank, you'll need a bubbler, air stone or bubble wand. It's your choice. I have a sunken ship bubbler that's pretty cool.
Here's a bubble wand (or bubble bar): - Walmart They also have cool ones that have LEDs attached (I've never found them in the store, but drsfostersmith.com has them).
Air stones: Walmart.com: Aqua Culture: Aquarium Stone Bubble, 1 ct: Fish
And an ornament bubbler: Walmart.com: Penn-Plax: Aquarium Ornament Action Air: Fish

 

[Tomato Sandwich]

Thank you so much! Yeah, the people I got the tank from said it'd been empty for 5 years, so it's been a while. Why would I want the Bio-wheel... does it filter the water better? How are the cartridges sized, how will I figure out which aquatech one to get to fit into the 160/150? I pulled out a cartridge thing and also a bag full of something... so are those the 2 things I need to replace or do I need something else too?

 

[bassbonediva]

You need the AquaTech cartridge #3 Walmart.com: Aqua-Tech: Fits 20-40/30-60 Filter Replacement Cartridges, 3 ct: Fish

The BIO-Wheel just helps with the biological filtration. It provides the beneficial bacteria its own place to grow in addition to the filter cartridge itself. At least that's the way I understand it. The Marineland website might explain it better, though. It isn't necessary, it's just a help.

Can you describe what's in the bag? You shouldn't need to add ANYTHING to the Penguin filter except the cartridge. It's already got activated carbon in the cartridge (although some people take that out 'cuz it isn't REALLY necessary).

My Penguin 170 (and the 46gal bowfront it came with) had been sitting for about as long as yours has. I just washed it really well with a mild vinegar solution and it's fine (make sure you rinse it well with HOT water after using the vinegar solution and then let it air dry completely before using it).

 

[Tomato Sandwich]

I attached a pic of the two things I took out of the filter. It's fine gravel in the bag it looks like.

Also, I cleaned the tank with straight vinegar (a solution wasn't working because it was too caked on), and then I rinsed it as best I could and then filled it up with water. I was thinking I'd drain a portion of the water periodically until I start cycling and hope that was enough of a rinse to get the vinegar out. Do I have to drain the tank and let it air dry or should my plan work?

 

[bassbonediva]

That looks like a packet of activated carbon. I wouldn't bother replacing it since the cartridges already have that in it.

The reason I let my vinegar-washed tanks air dry is that it gives the vinegar a chance to evaporate completely. I don't know if your idea would work, to be honest. I don't see why it wouldn't, though.