Ideas for my cycling 90 gallon bowfront

[Mikeyboi86]

Okay so I have a empty 90 gallon bow front tank that is cycling atm and I'm staring at it and all these ideas are going through my head so I thought id share!

first id like to say that this is going to be a indo-pacific biotope tank! and Second, I am open to all types of Advise Critiques and Suggestions. If you think i should add or remove a fish/coral/invert from the tank please say so and why! Even If I argue with you (I'm probably playing devils advocate, please do the same) I take your advise into consideration. Its my way of ruling things out or in.

Lets start with the coral! My favorite part.

Pom Pom Xenia
Pink Bird's nest
Pineapple coral
Bubble coral
Red and blue Mushrooms
(I can't think of what else I would like to add if anything, feel free to suggest)

Inverts!
Derasa Clam - 1
Pistal Shrimp - 1
Astera Snails - 20
Spikey Astera snails- 10
Bulb anemone - 3

fish
False Percula Clownfish - Pair
Blue/Green Reef Chromis - 12 (If i can get away with it more)
Yellow watchman goby - 1 (or a pair if i can find an already mated pair)
Zebra dart fish - 3 (Or a mated pair)
(Any fish I should not add? Should add? quantity change? etc...)

 

[Mikeyboi86]

Also was wondering... I'm not over stocking am I? I feel like im under stocking really... lol

 

[TRe]

12 chromis are waaaay to much! and since you want sps/clam what is your lighting going to be?

 

[Lorna]

with that light fish load i wouldn't go over 9 chromis......which in a 90 is a good school. Try to keep them odd numbered.


The xenia may take over and spread like wildfire you may want to rethink this unless you can keep it isolated as will the mushrooms....

1 bubble tip anemone for a 90 as this can grow to the size of a dinner plate if conditions are good and it likes it. (I had one in my 75 that grew from the size of a quarter to over a foot across in under a year) they will sting everything they come in contact with so you want to make sure you have lots of room for them especially if they don't like their placement and start to move around. They along with the clam will require high quality lighting

you will want some sand sifting snails to keep your sand bed clean and if going bare bottom you will want really good water movement to keep everything in suspension to be filtered out by the protein skimmer.

sounds like you are well on your way....

 

[TRe]

i still think 9 chroims is overkill in a 90g.... personally i like a little more diversity

 

[Mikeyboi86]

i still think 9 chroims is overkill in a 90g.... personally i like a little more diversity

I like watching them school. How about a little more constructive criticism?
"12 chromis are waaaay to much!" and "i still think 9 chroims is overkill in a 90g.... personally i like a little more diversity" Does not tell me anything as to why I should or should not put 12 or 9 Bluegreen reef chromis in my tank.

As far as the lighting goes. I'm debating LED or Halide/T5s. For cycling I just have my T8 and some live rocks for now. Going light shopping tomorrow.

 

[Mikeyboi86]

with that light fish load i wouldn't go over 9 chromis......which in a 90 is a good school. Try to keep them odd numbered.


The xenia may take over and spread like wildfire you may want to rethink this unless you can keep it isolated as will the mushrooms....

1 bubble tip anemone for a 90 as this can grow to the size of a dinner plate if conditions are good and it likes it. (I had one in my 75 that grew from the size of a quarter to over a foot across in under a year) they will sting everything they come in contact with so you want to make sure you have lots of room for them especially if they don't like their placement and start to move around. They along with the clam will require high quality lighting

you will want some sand sifting snails to keep your sand bed clean and if going bare bottom you will want really good water movement to keep everything in suspension to be filtered out by the protein skimmer.

sounds like you are well on your way....

I Love Xenia! so thats not a problem, And as far as the shrooms, I'm pretty sure you can detach them from the rock 1 at a time so if they get too out of had i can pluck them out? Also the bubble coral and Pineapple coral have ways of keeping them away. The birds nest im not too sure about....

anyway The anemones will have their own little Rock work on the other side of the tank, I kinda wanted an anemone jungle for the clowns.
is there another kind of Anemone you might recommend? If not i guess ill have to reconsider. I wanted a rose but I don't like the idea of it splitting alot. So I thought if i got 2 rose and 1 green I might get to enjoy the 1 big bulb with the rose splitting and selling the splits to my LFS

 

[TRe]

hey no need to get defensive, you asked for advice/suggestions and i gave you mine... take it or leave it but either way its not gonna hurt me none! lol but seriously small fish or not 20 fish in a 90g seems like alot to me. im also not a fan of chromis and eventually your guna want other fish in ther but you wont be able to put anything in there cause you filled the tank up with $3 chromis! maybe i missed it but i didnt see you mention liverock, skimmer, flow ect... what are your plans for filtration?

 

[Mikeyboi86]

I wasn't getting defensive. Part of advise is explanation. At first you didn't give any.

I did mention live rock In my last post I actually probly have alittle more than I need

filtration is marineland canister pro c580 and a marine land hang on the back filter for 75 gallon. I don't currently have a protien skimmer, what kind would u reccomend.

 

[Lorna]

well constructively speaking......get rid of the canister filters, you don't need them and if you are planning a reef with a lot of fish they will become quick nitrate traps which can lead to all kinds of algae issues down road. I tend to agree with Tre in that you will get bored with the chromis after a while and want more diversity. Personally I would stick with 3. 3 anemones is way to many.....they will grow and you can't guarantee they will go or stay where you want them (they never latch on where you want them and usually end up unhappy and getting sucked into a powerhead if they move too much) Anemones that split constantly are usually and I use this loosely as it is not the rule but more of an observation only split due to being unhappy. A happy nem will grow and stay in the same place for many many years without moving or splitting. Also, there is no guarantee that your clowns will even go near them, in fact the bta is not the natural host for perculas but is for maroons. They will get along just fine without a nem and will probably host your bubble coral or do as mine do and host a euphyllia. Either way they will host where ever they want. We can't control what they do just hope they do what we want.

You will definitely need a skimmer and it should be a primary purchase before adding fish, get a quality one and you will not need to waste money on constant upgrades.

 

[TRe]

lol still dont see where you "mentioned" liverock ...just curious how much is probaly more than you need? also you need some powerheads for flow... i wouldnt go any less than 20 times turn over rate ( in a 90g 1800gph would be 20 X ) as far as skimmer it depends if you plan on having a sump or not. on a tank this size i wouldnt feel comfterble with a HOB skimmer but again this is just me... canisters and HOB filters arnt for SW btw so i suggest you do a little more research

 

[Mikeyboi86]

lol still dont see where you "mentioned" liverock ...just curious how much is probaly more than you need? also you need some powerheads for flow... i wouldnt go any less than 20 times turn over rate ( in a 90g 1800gph would be 20 X ) as far as skimmer it depends if you plan on having a sump or not. on a tank this size i wouldnt feel comfterble with a HOB skimmer but again this is just me... canisters and HOB filters arnt for SW btw so i suggest you do a little more research

~230 lbs of live rock. Instead of using dead rock as base I just used live rock the whole way.

As far as research i hear and read good and bad things about every type of filtration system out there, for saltwater. I read articles of wet/dry filters becoming potential Nitrate factories if not maintained properly. How is that different from canisters?

I've been told and read so many different things good and bad about undergravel filtration for biological purposes, HOB filters, Canister filters, Wet/dry filters, drip filtration, and combinations of some of them. It is retarded- really- The mixed information that is out there.

From what I can gather it is mostly preference. What I took from all my research, when it comes to filtration, Is that I need to be able to maintain a good constant water quality.

Now, your telling me that you would not go with a canister, right?
I have another person on tropicalfishkeeping.com's saltwater section telling me the opposite. I have LFS telling me to swear by wet/dry filters. I have people on another site saying HOB should be fine as long as i have enough movement in the tank and do weekly water changes.

So where do you propose I research? Because I have multiple sources online and in person telling me to do different things. So... If you have a way to remove my confusion and provide me with the one right way to do things, and point me in the right direction to eliminate my lack of research I'd be thankful.

 

[Mikeyboi86]

well constructively speaking......get rid of the canister filters, you don't need them and if you are planning a reef with a lot of fish they will become quick nitrate traps which can lead to all kinds of algae issues down road. I tend to agree with Tre in that you will get bored with the chromis after a while and want more diversity. Personally I would stick with 3. 3 anemones is way to many.....they will grow and you can't guarantee they will go or stay where you want them (they never latch on where you want them and usually end up unhappy and getting sucked into a powerhead if they move too much) Anemones that split constantly are usually and I use this loosely as it is not the rule but more of an observation only split due to being unhappy. A happy nem will grow and stay in the same place for many many years without moving or splitting. Also, there is no guarantee that your clowns will even go near them, in fact the bta is not the natural host for perculas but is for maroons. They will get along just fine without a nem and will probably host your bubble coral or do as mine do and host a euphyllia. Either way they will host where ever they want. We can't control what they do just hope they do what we want.

You will definitely need a skimmer and it should be a primary purchase before adding fish, get a quality one and you will not need to waste money on constant upgrades.

As far as me getting bored... I'm doing a Biotope tank and I really do not plan to add anymore fish than what I listed.
I never heard about anemones splitting cus they are unhappy, I thought it was just their way of reproducing. Thats weird.

I'd really like to see the false percs in an anemone. Is there one that they are more likely to host in that you would recommend?

I planned on adding the anemones first and making sure they settle in. Then buying the coral before the fish. There is a skimmer for sell at my LFS red sea something, I think it is like 300 something dollars for the size I would need for my tank.

Oh and I bought lights that are 450 watts. Pretty sure 5 watts a gallon should be enough.

 

[Lorna]

an anemone will split when unhappy as a survival reaction.

I would seriously check out Wetwebmedia, Aquarium, Pond, Marine and Freshwater Fish, reef tanks, and Aquatics Information as a resource. The site is hosted by many very very reputable marine biologists and hobbyists. Most have their own individual books out there and the subject matter they cover is extremely extensive.

In saltwater your live rock provide all the biological filtration. The porous surface area of the rock become populated and covered by beneficial bacteria that break down waste and convert in the nitrogen cycle. These are the same bacteria that would populate the biomedia in either a wet/dry (bioballs) or filter media in any canister filter. With 230lbs of live rock you will have ample bio filtration. Bioballs and canister filters tend to trap detritus and other waste that will then rot and convert to nitrates increasing the nutrient load in your tank. This is fine in a fish only environment as fish are not adversely affected by nitrates as much as inverts and corals are. Nitrates will encourage algae and bad bacterial blooms (read cyano bacteria). This will lead to unstable water conditions the death knell to anemones and other sensitive corals. Any lfs or website worth their salt will discourage the use of either wet/dry or canister filters in the establishment of a reef tank biotype. I would strongly question their motives and advice if they do or they are sadly lacking in updated husbandry knowledge and the advancements made in this hobby in the past 10 years.

Mechanical filtration will be provided by a good quality protein skimmer, this will remove organics dissolved and otherwise from the water by created by foam, much like sea foam always looks scummy, that is dissolved organics being removed from the water. A really good protein skimmer is a must and you should think about adding a sump to house your equipment in as it adds less clutter to your display and will allow you to get a skimmer adequate for your tank size and load. Red sea skimmers though expensive do not have a great reputation. I would seriuosly ask Tre which Octopus skimmer he has it is a great skimmer as are Euro Reef, Aqua C Remora and Bubble Kings. Read other reefer reviews of skimmers......they will be your best resource as they have all had the cheaper ones and needed to upgrade when they didn't cut the mustard so to speak. These people on here and other forums are usually good resources (not all but most).
then go to wetweb media and check out what the experts say about different skimmers....

Seriously reconsider that anemone, not a good call and not to be added until your tank is up and running for about a year to ensure stability ......anemones live hundreds of years in the wild and someone who has kept one in captivity for a year or longer is still but a novice at best. I kept mine for about 5 years and sold them with my tank and I hope the new owner is keeping them well.....it took my clowns 2-3 years to discover what an anemone was let alone host in it. Most captive bred clowns have no exposure to anemones and haven't a clue....they find them by accident if at all. There are not guarantees they will host it. They don't need them and the anemone doesn't need the clown either........so no need......heck they will probably host your xenia....mine did for a while and my perula pair now host my hammer coral.

 

[Lorna]

Wetwebmedia, Aquarium, Pond, Marine and Freshwater Fish, reef tanks, and Aquatics Information

 

[Mikeyboi86]

Okay, that is pretty interesting stuff about the anemones splitting.

As far as the clown fish goes I probly won't keep them if I don't keep an anemone. It's not that I think they need it. I just really like
watching te relationship they have. I have a back up plan just in case for a caribbean setup. I really like the yellow headed jawfish. I think a group of them would be great to watch.

When I get home I can list the stock I'm thinking about

but yeah I had planned the clown and anemone relationship and behavior to be the focal point of the system

 

[Lotus]

Clowns will use almost anything as their host. I have mine in some hairy mushrooms. They're happy as they could be, playing with the mushroom all day. They're laying eggs and thriving.

I definitely agree about waiting for a year before getting an anemone. I removed my anemone because it was stinging corals. They don't really work well in a mixed reef, IME.

I used reefcentral.com for most of my research.

I definitely agree that if you want a reef, you shouldn't use a canister or wet/dry system. Anything that has mechanical or artificial biological media will lead to nitrate buildup, which is horrible for corals or anemones. A sump/refugium setup is the best, with a skimmer, of course.

 

[Lorna]

thanks Lotus that is what I was saying in my long winded style.

My clowns love my hammer and are never far from it.....except to eat of course.

Watch the hairy mushrooms as the have been known to eat fish.....i have a series of photos of mine eating a whole silverside.......yep...they did and it was something let me tell you. eye opening.

Do not get fooled into getting a condy anemone as they will eat fish if given a chance. The natural symbiotic host for perculas are carpet anemones and they get huge and eat other fish.......so what you see isn't always what is the true relationship. I have a clarkii clown that is hosting a LTA but that clown is one mean female dog .......she bites me every time I put my hand in that tank.

even my two small perculas will nip at me when I put my hand in the tank and I have only had this tank set up for 3 or 4 months now......

 

[Lorna]

Mikey a caribbean set up has all kinds of potential candidates......have you seen the blue spotted jawfish, they are spectacular......and if added together you could possibly have more than one. Just ensure you have a very tight fitting lid as they are jumpers. I love the pgymy angel as as well as many wrasses and hogfish all from the caribbean. Lots of choices here.....have fun

 

[Fishmonger70]

Also, probably a good idea to get fish before you get your corals. You want to make sure your tank is very well established before you put the corals in. As far as clowns and hosting goes, I have had my percs for 2 years now and have not had an anemone in all that time, but like Lorna said, they could host almost anything. I bought a frogspawn coral about 6 months ago and the clowns don't go near it. IMO, an anemone is just a waste of money and space.

I think 230 lbs of live rock in a 90 gallon tank is overkill too.

HOB filters, canisters, and wet/drys are not a good way to go. The sump/refugium method is much better, with your skimmer and heater in the sump. Go to Melevsreef.com - Welcome! for sump ideas, as well as youtube. Youtube has good videos on sumps too.