Red Tail Shark Advice

[Trishkk29]

I am a relatively new fish / aquarium owner. My roommate (also a beginner) inherited a 38 - 44 gallon tank from his sister (who really didn't use it that much) and decided to start this whole process. He also received ( from various friends) a 5 gallon tank and a fishbowl. He started by getting 2 red tail sharks (apparently the pet shop he got it at didn't warn him strongly enough!!!!) Shortly thereafter he introduced a silver bala shark to the tank. None of the sharks are that big (roughly 3 - 4 inches).

Problem from Day 1 is the the slightly bigger red tail started bullying the smaller one. I got very worried because everyone he would get more and more aggressive and the smaller one started losing her color and acting skittish. So we decided to move the little one to the smaller tank for now, until we could get a bigger tank ( a friend will be giving us a 20 gal tank very soon!!!! ) At the same time my interest was piqued to I decided to get some fish myself because I didn't want the red tail to be in the small tank by himself... thinking he would be lonely. I settled very quickly on a powder blue dwarf gourami, who is absolutely beautiful!!!!! Shortly thereafter.... my roommate decided to add 2 more silver bala sharks to his tank, so I decided to get 2 small (1.5 in) platy fishes, they are both females and pregnant!!!

I started getting worried about the female red tail ( apparent by the thin strip of gray/white on the bottom of her) because she turned almost clear. When she was in the bigger tank, she was very gray when stressed (attacked / picked on) But at times she would be velvet black with vibrant red tail and munching on the plants - happy

After a day in the smaller tank she turned completely velvet black but her tail still didn't return to her vibrant red. It has only been 3-4 days now and I decided to take both platy fish out and introduce a red gourami. Even though its a small tank.... I have a "waterfall cave" for her hiding spots, a patch of grass and a long stringy plant thing which covers most of the top of the tank (mainly for the gouramis). I have been feeding them mostly fish flakes although I know in the big tank my roommate gave them nothing but shrimp brine (I am feeding them that occasionally). The water remains clear about 99% of the time with the temp being between 75 to 79 degrees. I just had the local pet store check our ammonia / nitrate, etc... levels and was told it was 100% where its supposed to be. I use only filtered water for our tanks and an ammonium / chloride treatment.

Anyways some days her tail will turn "white / clear" and other days I can see pink / a little red. But never as richly vibrant when she was in the big tank. I refuse to put her back into that big tank with the other red tail. Should I just be patient and hope this changes when I put her in the 20 gal tank. Or should I try feeding her more shrimp brine??? Any advice would be great!! As you can tell I am being as thorough as possible. Thanks!!!

 

[OrangeCones]

Only one red-tail shark in an aquarium. The dominant one in a group will be aggressive to the rest until you are left with just one.

They need a big tank, as they get 6" and like a lot of area to swim. I wouldn't keep one in anything smaller than a 55gallon tank.

Lack of color in any fish is an indication of stress. I'm would guess that the tanks these multiple minnows (sharks) are in are not cycled.

I'd buy a liquid test kit and keep doing water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite down. Get a dechlorinator such as 'Prime' that can detoxify ammonia until your biological filter can get established. There is no way that the water is '100% where its supposed to be' with that many fish in so small a tank. Get your own test kit and post the readings here. Fish stores want to sell you more fish. Don't add more fish until your tanks are cycled.

Here is a link about the red-tailed shark: Red tail sharks and their native home

Bala sharks need to be kept in schools of 5 or more and need a huge (hundreds of gallons) tank. They can get 18+ inches if not stunted by poor water conditions.

This link might be helpful to figure out what is compatible with your tank sizes.

http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php?AqVolUnit=gUS&AqTempUnit=C&AqLengthUnit=inch

 

[lauraf]

Super of you to ask about your fishies' welfare. I'm going to suggest a few things.

So first - if I read your post correctly, you are keeping the red-tailed black shark in the 5g right now? That is waaayyyy too small of a tank, and that may be why the fish is showing signs of stress. That kind of fish needs room to move! You need to get it into the 20g immediately, and I think even that size tank is too small. Plus, a 3-4" fish would not be considered 'small'. I'm thinking that you will need to rehome the red-tail black shark anyway, even when you have the 20g.
Second, did you cycle either tank? If the 5g isn't using water from the larger tank that was properly cycled, then your shark may also be suffering from the water cycling that is happening.
Third, if you have a RTBS in a 5g, it definitely doesn't need company! It's already overcrowded. In fact, a 5g probably isn't good for much other than a fry tank, quarantine tank, or betta tank. So you will want to get that 20g soon for your gourami.
And fourth, just because your local fish store tells you that the water conditions are where they need to be doesn't necessarily mean much. Pretty much everyone on this site will ask immediately for your actual water parameters before they chime in with specific advice. You need to have a liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and report those numbers to the experts here (I'm not much of an expert myself ).
So maybe you can make some changes to your fish situation right away? Otherwise I don't think your RTBS will ever be okay . . . .

 

[OrangeCones]

Do not put the smaller red-tailed shark in with any other red-tailed shark. They are like fighting fish in an aquarium together. Same goes with a 'rainbow' shark.

The most humane thing to do would be to return the inhabitants of your 5gallon tank and do a fishless cycle. Then, as laura says, you could keep a betta in there.

 

[littletankbigworld]

Ditto to what Orange and Lauraf said. Get rid of all those fish unless you plan on buying a 55 gallon or larger tank for just one fish. Also, never ever ever ever ever ever ever trust pet store employees. Most of the time they tell you your water is perfect so that you will buy fish from them. They don't care about your fish and just want to make money. When that fish dies from being in a small tank with poor water conditions, you will come running to them to buy a replacement fish, hence giving them more money. Very few pet store employees are actually experienced.

 

[Trishkk29]

As most of you mentioned it, I may as well ask... what do you mean by cycling the water???

 

[Trishkk29]

Need more advice please.

Thank you everyone for your great advice. After reading what everyone has written, I have decided to gift my 2 platys and possibly 2 bala sharks ( that's the best I can do for now) I am also strongly considering returning my red dwarf gourami (he was kicking my RTBS out of his hole in my 5g tank and fighting with my other Gourami, so I moved him into the big tank). I do however have just have a couple more questions.

A couple of you mentioned "cycling" my tanks?? After researching this online... I realized you meant a nitrogen cycle, which of course was not mentioned to either of us. Is it too late for me to do that now that the fishes are in there?? I should also mention that we have been using an ammonium detoxifier (which was gone as of yesterday) as well as Aquasafe(neutralize nitrites, etc...). However, I do plan on getting Prime and the testing kit today to check my levels.

One major lapse in explaining all this.... my balas and RTBS in the big tank have ich (im sure most of you are not surprised by this). I have been using Quick Cure for the last 3 days and doing a 25-30% water change each night before adding it. They seem to be doing a lot better (my big bala shed an ich scales yesterday) and none of the other fishes have been contaminated. But it hasn't gone away completely. I was advised to use Coppersafe, which will allow me to keep my carbon filter in. Any advice on this issue would also be appreciated. I plan to report back in after getting the testing kit.

I also now agree with you about pet store employees, they managed to convince us the ich was really a fungal infrection... not the case after googling images of both. And we have been 100% honest with them about tank sizes and what we have and were not told once about cycling, having too many fish... they were too busy hearing the **cashking*** from the cash register.

 

[Sharkee]

cycling is never easy for fishes, it stresses them at the very least. Your best bet is just returning your fishes or homing them into a cycled tank. As you have already proven, never trust pet store employees. very rarely you'll find one who is actually knowledgeable and not just partial to their sales figures. I'm lucky enough to have found one who would bluntly tell me not to do anything more to my fishtank haha. Just do a fishless cycle first. Better yet put live plants to your tank to speed up the process. It hasn't been stated how long you've had fishes in your tanks but by the sounds of it, you probably already have ammonia in there already. Just let that spike and keep feeding it. Ammonia-eating bacteria will colonize eventually and convert that to nitrites then that will be converted to nitrates. Once you've got 0 ammo and nitrates and have nitrates, you're tank is cycled. Keep us posted. We'll walk you through it.

 

[lauraf]

Trishkk, it is so nice to hear someone responding so positively right away to the advice on this forum, even if it's not what you wanted to hear, and certainly not what the store tells you. There are some really knowledgeable people here that have helped me immensely and will do the same for you. You'll be a fantastic fishkeeper in no time! Let us know if you can return all the fish to do a fishless cycle, which is the best option - otherwise it is possible, just not ideal, to do a fish-in cycle.

 

[littletankbigworld]

Please purchase a liquid test kit in order to keep track of the readings while your cycling. Raise the temperature in your tank to 80 degrees F for a while to rid your tank of ich.

 

[Trishkk29]

Update on My Fishes

Right now, here is how everything is working out....

I have:

My Betta and 2 platys in my bowl.

Unfortunately, my powder blue gourami and RTBS are still together in my 5gal

3 bala, other RTBS, and gourami in the big tank.

I am very happy to report that after feeding shrimp brine (the past couple of feedings) to my RTBS (5gal) her tail is now super red!!!! Yay!!! But I am still planning on getting her into the 20gal as soon as possible.

I wanted to get the test strips asap but they are expensive on my limited budget -- I have already spent like $70+ on fish stuff in the past few days. But I did manage to get Prime and Coppersafe.

After Prime and Coppersafe the balas are acting a lot better.
Unfortunately, my roommate left the window in the kitchen open and cooled my 5g tank to 75 (I am sooo mad) because now it looks like my powder blue gourami has ich (one spot under his eye). But what's weird is after I put the Coppersafe in there, it looks like its disappeared completely!!! Is that even possible??

I will update more soon.

 

[lauraf]

Trishkk, don't waste your money on test strips - you realy need the liquid kind of water test kits. And if you can't afford them, maybe see if you could trade in some of your fish - you ned to find new homes for them anyway - for a store credit that you could use towards the cost of the liquid water test kits.
Finally, if reeeallly desperate on the financial front, you're going to have to be sweet as pie and obnoxiously request your store to not just test your water, but ask the to show you how they are doing it (read the instructions while they are doing it to make sure they are indeed performing the tests right) and have them show you the final results measured against the chart. Write those numbers down and let us know.

And I don't think your platies will survive in a non-heated, non-filtered bowl. The betta will for a while . . . .

 

[Trishkk29]

Test Results my Water

LauraF I am a little confused by what you wrote. How are "test strips" different from "liquid test strips"??

I am sorry to say because of the negligence of my roommate my blue gourami died yesterday. He decided to take it upon himself to remove my air pump (it was his, I had no say in it). Even though he tried to put it back in, 2 hours later my fish died. My red tail is still going though (thank god for small favors).

Today I got the testing kit and BOTH tanks (5 and 44 gal) read as follows:

Ammonia -1.0 (we added full strength Prime to both tanks as it lowers is by 1.0 but we will continue to monitor)

Nitrate - 40
Nitrite - 1.0-3.0 (I think it turned more pink while it was sitting)
Hardness - 75
Chlorine - 0
Alkalinity - 40 - 80
PH - 7.8


I am very optimistic that a friend of my roommate will be selling us a 25gal or larger tank today, which I fully plan on cycling BEFORE I buy anymore fish. Any advice on the above results and how to cycle my new tank will be fully appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Trishkk29]

My platys are actually doing really great and they are still active with no ich. So far anyways

 

[lauraf]

LauraF I am a little confused by what you wrote. How are "test strips" different from "liquid test strips"??

Hey trishkk, I believe I said that test strips are different from a liquid test kit. The liquid test kit involves adding drops of liquid reactors to a sample of water, whereas, IIRC (I've never used the strips) you dunk the test strips in the water. The liquid test kits are more accurate.
Glad to hear that your platies are surviving for now!

 

[OrangeCones]

I am sorry to say because of the negligence of my roommate my blue gourami died yesterday. He decided to take it upon himself to remove my air pump (it was his, I had no say in it). Even though he tried to put it back in, 2 hours later my fish died.

Gourami can breathe air and should not have been killed by a missing air pump. Likely it was ammonia and nitrite poisioning.

Ammonia -1.0 (we added full strength Prime to both tanks as it lowers is by 1.0 but we will continue to monitor)

Nitrate - 40
Nitrite - 1.0-3.0 (I think it turned more pink while it was sitting)
Hardness - 75
Chlorine - 0
Alkalinity - 40 - 80
PH - 7.8

Prime will detoxify the ammonia but make sure you keep an airstone in the tank or if you have a water-fall type filter, remove some of the tank's water so it can splash more. The more surface aggitation, the more oxygen will get into your tank's water.

A reading of 1 (let alone 3!) nitrite shows a serious condition. You can use Prime to detoxify nitrite but FOLLOW THE LABEL'S DIRECTIONS CAREFULLY!

Water changes are going to be your best bet until you can rehome the fish that do not fit in these tanks.

 

[Trishkk29]

What is wrong with my redtail (not eating) / Update

Okay so my roommate has a great friend. He gave us...

A 29g tank
a heater
a power filter (with replacement filter)
a "saltwater" liquid test kit (which hopefully works for freshwater but I know the levels needed with be different)
a gravel vacuum syphon
and....Stability.... if it works - it adds the bacteria they need over a one week period -its supposed to jump start a new tank.

All that for $20. Good deal!

I would like to add that my ammonia level is being maintained at .5(Stress) and I did a 25% water change yesterday with more Prime. I will keep adding the stability and prime and am optimistic can get this done even more.

I would also like to add in response to what Orange Cones said, that I realize the Nitrite level is still a bit high, but my chart comparison says it is stress level. I am hoping that over the next week with the Prime and Stability I can bring this down even more.

If I haven't already mentioned it... my 5g tank has a carbon filter (for a 10g tank) and air pump. And now I have added the heater, set to 77. But when I do my water changes, I use cold filtered water / add warm filtered water to try to keep the temp where it should be. I have been maintaining a 75 - 79 temp.

So.... now I have a couple more questions....

My main concern is my red tail shark right now. Since my gourami died she hasn't been active like before. The past day or so she hides in her cave 24/7, she doesn't even come out to eat (shrimp brine or flakes). If she does come out it is for like a sec or two then she goes back in her cave. Her body is still black and her tail is red (though it went white for a little while after the gourami died).
But what worried me the most.... yesterday she stood absolutely still barely move and is hanging out at the bottom of the tank!!!! she even stood completely still in the plant!!!! (almost didn't realize she was there) In the roughly 2 weeks she has been in there I have NEVER seen her do that. The other red tail shark (in the bigger tank) is pretty much doing the same thing BUT he has grown!!!! She will dart out every now and then, like she is playing with me.

Is she depressed? Any thoughts on this??

 

[OrangeCones]

I would also like to add in response to what Orange Cones said, that I realize the Nitrite level is still a bit high, but my chart comparison says it is stress level.

I'm not sure what your chart comparison says, but a reading of 1ppm of nitrite will cause brown blood disease in most fish. It won't allow oxygen to pass into their bloodstream, so they suffocate over time.

Good luck with your fish.

 

[Trishkk29]

Red Tail Shark tank and ich update

Okay it took me a while to get the new tank set up. Just set it up yesterday. here are my levels for my 29 gal and 5 gal tanks....

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Chlorine - 0
Hardness- 75 - 150
Alkalinity - 120-180
pH - 7.8

I didn't realize this, but for Nitrite problems, it said I could use 5 times the amount of Prime, I did this for a couple of days along with my water changes. Also, I didn't think about syphoning my gravel. I was in shock at what came out of that water. Also apparently the coppersafe killed my plant and it had been rotting in my tank for a while along with dead pines from the other plant I had to throw out. So after taking out the plant and syphoning, it allowed the good bacteria from my Stability to start working right.

My red tail in unbelievably happy in her new tank. She is finally eating again!!!! She has been really active since last night. But her ich is still there!!!! I have been using a heater to turn the temp up to 82 and of course I am still treating with coppersafe. The ich doesn't seem to be hurting her like before. If fact, she had torn a piece of her tail on something in the small tank. But it seems to be healing well now. After due consideration, I decided to switch to Stress Coat and Stress Zyme. And both have been working well for her.

I should also mention... my platys / gourami / betta are doing well still. Betta is in the bowl by herself now. Gourami, 2 platys, and froggie are now in the 5 gal. I use the same "cocktail" for them as all the others....

Prime, Stability / Stress Coat & Stress Zyme, Ph Neutral, and Coppersafe.

I was thinking about using aquarium salt to help the ich clear quicker. Any thoughts??

 

[littletankbigworld]

Is the shark in the 29 gallon? Salt is worth a try. I would not use the pH neutral if I were you. It's a really bad idea to use chemicals to mess with the pH. A pH that swings because of chemical use is way worse than a high pH. Zero nitrate means your tank is not cycled.
If stability is that bacteria in a bottle, it will only work if it was refridgerated from the time it was shipped from the store until now. Otherwise, it's just a very pricey bottle of water.
I'm fairly certain saltwater test kits will not work with freshwater.