dead fiddlers? Sick Clown Loach?

[tim3d]

Hi,

i started my first aquarium last month, (32 gallon live plants, driftwood, fluval 205 filter and Nutra-fin pro-feed auto feeder) and Ive been slowly growing my community. So far i have 2 angels, an elephant nose, 3 clown loaches, 2 guppies, one small ball looking fish which i cant remember the name at the moment,my old Beta (who is getting along fine in the tank and isn't being aggressive at all, in fact he has started schooling at night with the angels and guppies... weird....) and 6 algae eaters. oh an 1 shrimp. i had 3, but two died of mysterious causes. which if anyone has input as to a cause would be appreciate. My nitrates were quite high at the time, and ammonia levels were slightly elevated. both of which are supposed to have been fixed.

I have a specialist taking care of my tank maintenance only cause I'm new to this and want to learn by example how to take care of it myself. the last check was on Thursday. The same day that i bought the crabs.

Shrimp
The only symptom for the shrimp was that they turned bright red, almost cooked looking, and simply died...

Clowns
2 of my 3 clown loaches seem perfectly healthy, and nice size. however the 3 one seems to be quite thin, and nowhere near the same size as the others. He always seems to resting against the wall of their driftwood home, the side of the tank, or more bizarrely he will lie across the bracketing of the filter intake tube. which scared me the first time, but then he swam away. Hes also been sleeping on his side quite a bit, which to my understanding is normal behavior for clowns. Now he also seems to be breathing much slower than the other clown, and doesn't seem to have much appetite (which might be the cause of his skinny-ness). He seems to show no interest in the food pellets or in the frozen blood worms. now he could be eating during the night, but he really doesn't look healthy. looks kinda like a q-tip were the head s big and body incredibly thin. Any help is great.

Fiddlers
and lastly, i bought 2 fiddlers crabs on Thursday as replacements for the 2 shrimp which the pet store agreed to replace free of charge seeing as the shrimp didn't last long. Now they seemed to be doing great, then i started reading into them and found out about the brackish water, and land requirements. I was going to go tomorrow and ask the pet shop why they didn't tell me and what to do. However yesterday, i noticed that my larger crab was belly up on the ground with his flap slightly open. After having read up on them i simply assumed he was molting. However its now been well over 24hrs, and he is still there and hasn't moved. the flap seems slightly more open but not drastically. And to make matters worse, the morning after i noticed the first one, the smaller one also is now belly up in the same situation. I find it odd that they would both go so close to each other. Which is raising so many red flags... Are they dead? Molting? do i take them out before they pollute the tank? I just need help.

I'm hoping that the community can help me with these issues. I greatly appreciate for those willing to take the time and read my question. i apologize for the length, but I'm just trying to be detailed. i will try to include images. of the crabs at least, as its quite tricky to get the clown.

I look forward to speaking with you all soon.

p.s. first image is of crab, i apologize for quality, my camera battery is dead so i used my i phone. ill upload better quality tomorrow/ later today. the second one is my clown loach in question, this time hes decided to hide in the roots of the plants, on his side. You can kind of see the coloration of the fish as well as an example of bizarre habits.

 

[abigor0329]

2 problems. One, the crabs and shrimp or any invertebrate cannot tolerate any kind of copper based treatments used in water, and WILL kill them. So you would need a well established and cycled tank before adding them. Second, your crabs need to live on land as well as in the water. So for proper setup with crabs, your tank should be no more than 1/2-3/4 full of water and some kind of "land" access for the crabs. Now, being you don't do maintenance yourself, you need to see what kind of chemicals the "specialist" is using that isn't going to harm the inverts.

 

[tropicalcrazy]

also with your clown loaches they will get up to 12"+ (heres a link Tropical Fish for Freshwater Aquariums: Clown Loach) and WAY outgrow that tank so those are not a good choice for a 30g. loaches, at least in my experience like to sleep on their side. elehant noses get larger than 9"+ (heres a link Tropical Fish for Freshwater Aquariums: Elephant Nose) so that is WAY to big for your tank, the angels i believe are too small for that tank because there span going up and down usually is like 8" so their fins could get messed up so this would be a bad choice for a 30g.

you would be a lot better with all those fish in a 75g+ if you want to keep them. all these fish require a much larger tank so either a. get a new bigger tank or b. get rid of them asap because you will stress and shorten the lifespan of those fish currently in your tank.

what kind of algae eaters do you have? if they are chinese or gold they will be WAY to big for that tank also. they get 12"+.

not trying to down your friend or whoever he is that you call a specialist but if he had enough experience he should know all these things. maybe he is a species only specialist idk. but in my epxerience if you are experienced you usually know a lot about a lot of other fish.

since you have had problems at the fish store i would get a manager involved because it sounds like all your fish you have are going to outgrow quickly and you were told all sorts of bad info. DONT LISTEN TO LFS EMPLOYEES ANYMORE. if you want advice or info come here then do research on what you learned then come back with more questions until you figure it out.

 

[tim3d]

thanks for all the info,
and i do plan on coming here for more info in the future. The "specialist" i refer to is a enthusiast who is the son of the owner of the pet shop. The shop is a family owned thing, and so I've been taking their info.

And they haven't been completely misinforming me, they told me from the start how big they would get, the only thing is that they didn't discourage me from buying them due to the size of my tank. However in their defense i told them im getting a bigger tank eventually. I plan within the year to buy a 100gallon tank minimum.

Im just concerned for the 3rd loach at this point, he is very skinny, pale, and always resting on his side, i am aware that the side sleeping behavior, and that they have bizarre and comical habits. So if it was just that i wouldnt be worried. BUT its the fact that hes incredibly skinny compared to the other two, and seems very segregated from the others. what can i do. im always stressing that ill go out one day and come back to find it dead...

 

[tropicalcrazy]

i would imagine that hes gotten bullied for food. its possible he could have an illness and the other fish are picking on him and hes slowly dying off. even with a pecking order, the smallest isnt usually deprived.

 

[tim3d]

i don't think he's being bullied for food. I have tried segregating him and feeding him on his own in case it was a matter of hunger, but still he refused to eat. See, im not sure if this can play any part in things, (i doubt i should) but when i picked him up at the store, it was the last one. I felt bad. I had been there at the beginning of the week to buy my two loaches. When i revisited the store, i saw that all the others had been bought, except for the one. I felt kinda bad seeing as how they are a type of fish who prefer being in groups. And since the two i had were part of his original school, i figured he would simply re-merge and be happy. And at first they were always together, and then suddenly he started getting sick.... and unfortunately as im writing this hes taking his last breaths... He is very faint but still alive... He will move if disturbed but then immediately lies back down. Hes puffing about every 10 seconds.... and i cant bring myself to get rid of him just yet. I have no problem disposing of a dead fish (although its still saddening) but if its still alive and makes an attempt to survive, i just cant bring myself to do it...

The friend i made at the pet shop already told me he'd replace it for me no problem. But that doesn't change that its still upsetting.

all the other fish in the tank are doing marvelously. hes really the only one suffering....

 

[OrangeCones]

They don't feel much like eating when suffering from ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Based on your other thread, this is what I would suspect.

Any readings yet on your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? What is your water change schedule like?

 

[tim3d]

ammonia was at 0, nits are between .2 and .8 the color was hard to judge one or the other. so i would give it maybe like a .45

The clown in question unfortunately passed away this morning....

All the other fish are healthy, and behaving normally.

The water changes for the moment (because of the high nits) have been once a week, at first 1/3 amounts, but the last one was a 50% in a drastic attempt to regulate the nits lvls. Ill be finding out in a couple days if the levels have finally.... leveled... out.

But I've noticed the breathing of the fish has drastically settled down. in the beginning they were breathing rapidly as a result of the high levels, but they have all calmed down ALOT and have normalized. im not planning on adding anymore fish until things are 100% alright again.

I'll be sure to post the new water results soon.

 

[lauraf]

More water changes! More water changes! Immediately, and every day!

 

[tim3d]

More? I was under the impression that logically, too many water changes can cause more problems... as tit will just cause things to re create themselves.... Again, im a noob for the moment when it comes to aquariums, but i thought once or twice a week was already considered "alot" seeing as ive heard of ppl who will do them once bi-weekly. But alright.

When doing these water changes, what, if anything, should i be adding to the water between changes? any kind of ph adjuster? or just the usual tap water conditioner? If someone can give me a good detailed procedure to follow for water changes it would be greatly appreciated. I would like to feel more confident about what i do with my tanks. So any help is always welcomed. Preferably a step by step kind of thing would be nice.

I'm an incredibly fast learner and more or less a jack of all trades. literally. Carpentry, graphic design, 3d animation, 3d modeling, artist, interior designer, electronics specialist, some mechanics, musician, gadget nut, scuba diver, the list goes on, and on. But aquariums is still in the noob stage. lol and its something id like to change.

I recently started a second 20 gal i got as payment for probono work i did for a client. its running and as far as i know i started it correctly, i haven't run any tests yet, but will tomorrow to see how its running. So any advice for either tank is appreciated. I'd like to start the second tank on the right foot this time, and prevent casualties.... i grow attached to my pets very quickly, and don't want to lose anymore than i have to.

 

[tropicalcrazy]

more water changes everyday will start to bring the harmful nitrites and nitrates down and more stable. you may even be alright with every other day. for a couple days i would do once a day then test and see where your at. make sure you add dechlorinater or prime if you use it when you do water changes. when starting a tank you dont want to do all the time right away. you want things to build up. when having an established tank you can water change more frequently if things are going wrong and you will be safe

 

[tropicalcrazy]

i think honestly you are coming to the end of a cycle

 

[tim3d]

now, only cause im a noob and want to clarify, when you say you think im coming to the end of a cycle. What exactly do you mean? and is that a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[tropicalcrazy]

now, only cause im a noob and want to clarify, when you say you think im coming to the end of a cycle. What exactly do you mean? and is that a good thing or a bad thing.

because first you have ammonia, then it is turned into nitrites and when that starts fading away the nitrites turn into nitrates then the nitrates will start to dissipate down and you are at the end of your cycle.

if your ammonia is reading 0, your nitrite is reading is between .2 and .8 and i guess i cant find your nitrate reading, which im assuming is higher, when your nitrites are down a little lower and nitrates decrease you will be good to go

 

[OrangeCones]

I check my tapwater for nitrate in Iowa. I get between 10 and 15 PPM from just tapwater. Some might think their cycle is over if they see it

 

[AndiH]

My suggestion is if you have the time, do your own work. IMO that is part of the fun of an aquarium and you learn alot more as well. It is possible that the now-dead loach you bought just wasn't right to begin with and too many changes occurred too fast for it to deal with or it contracted something at the store after you bought the other two. In fact, considering the other loaches are doing fine seems to indicate that to me.

I went through the fiddler crab thing myself when my daughter bought some. I've come to the conclusion they're best for a paludrium since you lose alot of space in a tank if you try to make a land area in a mainly fish tank and in my experience, a piece of driftwood sticking out of the water just isn't adequate.

Don't give up and as you get the 20 going, start off with hardier fish then expand after its stable

 

[tim3d]

thanks guys.

The store replaced the clown without any problem.

One advantage is that i have become friends with the crew there, and so they generally are very understanding when things like this happen. And since the son is the one who has been going the maintenance on the tanks, he is aware of the situations and so has no problem replacing.

Things are going great in the tank, all the fish are lively, and healthy. Always swimming about and its fun at feeding time watching literally the whole community coming to the front and sharing. I mean the angel fish get first peck at the top of the tank, but once the cube of bloodworms makes it way down its happy hour in the tank lol.

I have since replaced the clown, and also added two gouramis, that were just too beautiful to resist. I have one small fish on order and then im done for my 32gal. I figure that until i get my 100gal + and put my clowns in there (seeing as they will outgrow the 32) im going to hold off and work on my 20gal.

As for the crabs, i fully agree, i have decided to stay away from that for now, i might use the 10gal i have lying around for them one day, but im not sure. I still have a concept in my head to build a tank within a tank.... if that makes sense (it does to me lol)

In the 20 gal, which water is for now fine, ive added 3 pink barbs, to get things started. However i'm having a very odd problem in that tank, the water and chemicals are perfect in it. However, even after treating with "Nutrafin, Clear Fast" there is what i can only describe as smoke in the water. Its not cloudy... cause as i look at it now its crystal clear, but as soon as you look into light, you can see swirls of smoke all throughout the water.... any ideas? Also, seeing as they seem to be not very aggressive with feeding time, what types of food do Barbs prefer? i tried flakes, but they seem to want to stay at the bottom, so i tried a pellet, and they just kind of looked at and left it.... Is there a particular kind of food they will eat?

Thanks again everyone.

current levels: Nitrate: 10 - 20 / Nitrite: 0.3 / Ammonia: 0 / PH: 7