Where to start? Cycling with a betta, and filter question

[michaelg210]

1. High Ammonia, at .25 - did 60 % PWC and tested 20 mins later, still at .25

what now? Have been doing 2 - 3 pwc / day as often as possible with my schedule.. sometimes 4 or a mini pwc, 80oz or so in between.

5.5G tank, Tom Aquatics filter (Mini 1 - 5 G filter) with moderate to high aeration usiing the diffuser and on the highest setting.

2. Need filter reccomendation, problem is funds, has to be < 20 dollars, (no snickering pls...)

do not like the tetra filters, returned one already the tetra when i had the 2.5g tank, went to a bigger tank due to ability to find an internal filter not too strong for the betta...

Need to remain at close to 50 gph flow rate, or at least adjustable flow rate i can keep at 40 to 50 that works..

however, issue number 1 is the priority right now...

do not have a gravel vac, that is on the list too... thinking too much poop? would like to clean it and not disturb any possible nitrites might be forming, but only been cycling for abour 4 days... previously did not even know what it was....

anyone?

 

[FroggyFox]

aquaclear makes a good HOB filter that isn't overly expensive...what size tank?

ammonia of .25 sounds ok...just keep doing what you're doing. Fish-in cycle takes a long time!

Any bacteria that you are growing is going to be found in your filter, not in the poop...I would pick up a gravel vac at your earliest convenience

 

[achase]

1.) Unfortunately I cannot answer your question regarding cycling with a fish since I always do the fishless cycle.

2.) I did some googling (?) and I found a couple filters that may fit your bill. I have never personally used them but saw from other forums that some people like/suggested them.
- Power Filter for Small & Desktop Aquariums: Azoo Palm Filter
- Canister Filters: Rapids Mini Canister Filter at Foster & Smith Aquatics
- Duetto Multi-Filters

If money is an issue for you you might try checking out a "used website" and by that I mean like craigslist or ebay....depending on where you live.

 

[michaelg210]

aquaclear makes a good HOB filter that isn't overly expensive...what size tank?

5.5 gallon....

 

[michaelg210]

1.) Unfortunately I cannot answer your question regarding cycling with a fish since I always do the fishless cycle.

2.) I did some googling (?) and I found a couple filters that may fit your bill. I have never personally used them but saw from other forums that some people like/suggested them.
- Power Filter for Small & Desktop Aquariums: Azoo Palm Filter
- Canister Filters: Rapids Mini Canister Filter at Foster & Smith Aquatics
- Duetto Multi-Filters

If money is an issue for you you might try checking out a "used website" and by that I mean like craigslist or ebay....depending on where you live.

wow, thanks, very kind of you, will check them out, problem is flow rate withabetta..

i have scoured the web for hours and nothing fitting budget or tank size or flow, so thanks for the idea... i did find one on ebay but it was actually more than on line by a dollar - watzupwitdat?

anyway thanks again

 

[Goldiegupp]

Try a sponge filter set.

Use an old turkey baster as a gravel vacuum.

 

[michaelg210]

Try a sponge filter set.

Use an old turkey baster as a gravel vacuum.

Wow, never thought of the turkey baster. Either way, picked up a little goodie for like $7 on the way to work today... works just fine, not the life of luxury, but just fine, i siphon into a pail on the floor...

Looked at sponge filters, also picked up a little elite for 8.00 and it works even better than the Tom Aquatics, I believe flow is 60 gph, have it on the lowest setting and disconnected the aerator, cause THAT was a blast.

Thanks for your help

 

[achase]

Well I'm glad that you found equipment that meant your needs (somewhat) and was in your price range.

 

[michaelg210]

1.) Unfortunately I cannot answer your question regarding cycling with a fish since I always do the fishless cycle.

2.) I did some googling (?) and I found a couple filters that may fit your bill. I have never personally used them but saw from other forums that some people like/suggested them.
- Power Filter for Small & Desktop Aquariums: Azoo Palm Filter
- Canister Filters: Rapids Mini Canister Filter at Foster & Smith Aquatics
- Duetto Multi-Filters

If money is an issue for you you might try checking out a "used website" and by that I mean like craigslist or ebay....depending on where you live.

funny, but i keep on checking out that Duetto Mini.... what i like is they actually make a filter with an adjustable gph flow....... Have been looking at the DJ-50, but also see they now have a DJ-10 with an adjustable flow of about the same...., so hopefully it is the new model. Seems all i find now is parts on the DJ-50.

Appreciate the info, i am eyeballing it for down the road... does anyone out there have either of these?

 

[nanu156]

an aquaclear 10 is in your budget range too.

The ammonia is higher then desired but you aren't really in killing off the fish range.

Cool it with the feedings, if it's a Betta you can feed pretty infrequently. (like 2 times a week i believe) with out any real issues.

 

[michaelg210]

an aquaclear 10 is in your budget range too.

The ammonia is higher then desired but you aren't really in killing off the fish range.

Cool it with the feedings, if it's a Betta you can feed pretty infrequently. (like 2 times a week i believe) with out any real issues.

Thank you, I checked it out and the flow rate is too high, 80gph will stress out the betta, he seems ok with around 40 - perhaps 50

The one i just got is 58 gph, but the flow head is adjustible, and i have it mounted side-wise rather than lenght wise, on the lowest output and angled the flow... he just hangs out on the other half of the 5.5 g tank, and once in a while gets brave to go check out the current.... still trying to figure it out.... that was why i was interested in the duetto, because it appears you can actually "set" the flow rate withing a very broad range... i could put it say at 35 and run the filter lenghtwise and think he would be fine.... i really liked the Tom Aqua, Mini, but it has been discontinued and I don't wish to have to start buying replacement filters on line....

 

[lightsyouonfire]

Hi there. I've got a few questions for you...

Are you cycling the tank with the betta because you plan to eventually put other fish in later when it's fully cycled? If so, continue. Otherwise, I guess I'm just wondering why you are cycling at all.

Right now I've got my two crowntails in a 5gal divided tank. I had two very small mini filters in there, one in each side. I found that if I kept a filter only on one side, the other side didn't get clean, regardless of the fairly large mesh I have separating it. I experimented with things, and I ended up planting some java fern in each side. I tried removing the filters completely, and it has worked fabulously. I do 30% water changes every week, and I monitor my levels closely. I've found that I don't need the filters, and my fish are thriving, even only 2.5 gals each. I condition with Amquel + and I'm very pleased with that as well.

I just recently experimented with adding a mini air pump with a splitter, so each side has its own air stone. I keep them in the corner, and it is just right. Both fish love the air stone and one of them actually swims straight down into it as fast as his little fins can take him, trying to scoop up bubbles as they pass. Weirdo. Anyways, I've also experimented with

But yeah, I mean a cycled tank is great, but sometimes in the little tanks like ours, it is just harder to establish and can be tempermental. I'm glad I decided to not cycle.

I suggest getting a good water testing kit and go from there.

 

[michaelg210]

hi there

............

 

[FroggyFox]

a tank is going to 'cycle' whether you consciously do it or not It is nature...

 

[michaelg210]

Hi there. I've got a few questions for you...

Are you cycling the tank with the betta because you plan to eventually put other fish in later when it's fully cycled? If so, continue. Otherwise, I guess I'm just wondering why you are cycling at all.

Right now I've got my two crowntails in a 5gal divided tank. I had two very small mini filters in there, one in each side. I found that if I kept a filter only on one side, the other side didn't get clean, regardless of the fairly large mesh I have separating it. I experimented with things, and I ended up planting some java fern in each side. I tried removing the filters completely, and it has worked fabulously. I do 30% water changes every week, and I monitor my levels closely. I've found that I don't need the filters, and my fish are thriving, even only 2.5 gals each. I condition with Amquel + and I'm very pleased with that as well.

I just recently experimented with adding a mini air pump with a splitter, so each side has its own air stone. I keep them in the corner, and it is just right. Both fish love the air stone and one of them actually swims straight down into it as fast as his little fins can take him, trying to scoop up bubbles as they pass. Weirdo. Anyways, I've also experimented with

But yeah, I mean a cycled tank is great, but sometimes in the little tanks like ours, it is just harder to establish and can be tempermental. I'm glad I decided to not cycle.

I suggest getting a good water testing kit and go from there.

Hi there. I've got a few questions for you...
FYI, at work so busy, and don’t mean for this to come across as short or sarcastic, pls understand, not my intention if I sound short.
Are you cycling the tank with the betta because you plan to eventually put other fish in later when it's fully cycled? If so, continue. Otherwise, I guess I'm just wondering why you are cycling at all.
Possibility of one or two more fish, but betta was a gift, long story…Not knowing any better, was doing complete H2O changes about every four to five days and scrubbing the aquarium and thoroughly washing gravel and fish toy (bridge). One day fish was just lying on the bottom barely moving, started learning about the nitrogen cycle and trying to get him better. My assumption, (could be wrong) is that NO3 buildup was toggling between zero at water changes and toxic levels by the fourth/fifth day).I found that if I kept a filter only on one side, the other side didn't get clean, regardless of the fairly large mesh I have separating it.
I have not experienced that yet, however, I am doing two or three 50% water changes daily so time will tell.
I experimented with things, and I ended up planting some java fern in each side.
Might look into this, currently have some kind of plant, and two water lilies, all are the kind just drop the bulb in the tank…. Read about java moss supposedly works well, but also read it clouds the water.I condition with Amquel + and I'm very pleased with that as well.
I assume this works the same as API’s Ammo-Lock, which I have looked at but read many mixed reviews for. Instead I went with Stress Zyme, (which is probably the same, voodoo magic in a bottle) to foster nitrIte / nitrAte bacterial growth.
I just recently experimented with adding a mini air pump with a splitter…and it is just right. Both fish love the air stone and one of them actually swims straight down into … Have looked at air stones but that is about it and perhaps later down the road… it as fast as his little fins can take him, trying to scoop up bubbles as they pass. Weirdo…. The betta likes to surf the current sometimes, fun to watch.But yeah, I mean a cycled tank is great, but sometimes in the little tanks like ours, it is just harder to establish and can be tempermental. I'm glad I decided to not cycle.
I am still a novice, but yes, eventually the tank will cycle naturally, Ammo-Lock or whatever will minimize damage to the fish in the tank during the first phase, which is Toxic ammonia levels due to fish waste until nitrites can kick in and then ultimately nitrates and the cycle is complete and self sustaining, unless you dump a bunch more fish in.... oh and yeah, still gotta keep testing and doing partial water changes..

 

[michaelg210]

RE: test kit. Using API Complete Fresh Water Test Kit... ammonia gets up around .25 ppm right at about 12 hours or so after last change, have not gotten it down to complete zero even after change, probably averaging between .10 and .20 but with spikes toward the end before a change, this is due to my work schedule, (dunno why I say schedule, cuz i work all the time). This is why I was looking into Ammo-Lock.

Have not tested for nitrites yet, no reason till I see the NO3 holding down. Just figure me an the betta will ride it out till the ammonia ppm breaks, with frequent water changes. Using Prime as water treatment... everyone seems to reccommend that one...

 

[michaelg210]

aquaclear makes a good HOB filter that isn't overly expensive...what size tank?

ammonia of .25 sounds ok...just keep doing what you're doing. Fish-in cycle takes a long time!

Any bacteria that you are growing is going to be found in your filter, not in the poop...I would pick up a gravel vac at your earliest convenience

Thanks for the tip, I did p/u a gravel vac, did not know how simple they are... anyway that has helped keep the poop down...still doing PWC 2 - 3x daily, and waiting on the nitrite.......

 

[achase]

But yeah, I mean a cycled tank is great, but sometimes in the little tanks like ours, it is just harder to establish and can be tempermental. I'm glad I decided to not cycle.

@lightsyouonfire - Interesting.....like FroggyFox said your tank is going to cycle either way. Your tank probably cycled at one point and now it has stabilized. Also I have a 5 gallon tank that I did a fishless cycle with and I didn't find it challenging just time consuming.

 

[michaelg210]

RE: test kit. Using API Complete Fresh Water Test Kit... ammonia gets up around .25 ppm right at about 12 hours or so after last change, have not gotten it down to complete zero even after change, probably averaging between .10 and .20 but with spikes toward the end before a change, this is due to my work schedule, (dunno why I say schedule, cuz i work all the time). This is why I was looking into Ammo-Lock.

Have not tested for nitrites yet, no reason till I see the NO3 holding down. Just figure me an the betta will ride it out till the ammonia ppm breaks, with frequent water changes. Using Prime as water treatment... everyone seems to reccommend that one...

Just noticed my Freudian slip.... I have been referring to ammonia as NO3 instead of NH3... my appologies.

 

[michaelg210]

@lightsyouonfire - Interesting.....like FroggyFox said your tank is going to cycle either way. Your tank probably cycled at one point and now it has stabilized. Also I have a 5 gallon tank that I did a fishless cycle with and I didn't find it challenging just time consuming.

Yes, that is a bit confusing, to me... perhaps you could clarify...

my understanding is that the reason to monitor the cycle and NH3 levels is because until Nitrite / Nitrate is established the ammonia level gets so high it could kill or injure the fish in the tank.... is this not correct? I mean if I were not doing the revolving door water changes would this happen, (ammonia remaining at toxic levels too long)?

Another question is regarding the filter in my tank. I also understand most of the beneficial bacteria are on the tank walls, gravel, decorations/toys etc., rather than the water...I have also read much of the beneficial bacteria remain in the filter's foam / sponge / whatever, and that changing or cleaning the filter starts the nitrogen cycle all over again. (cannot find the link to where i read this)

This does not make sense given that the same beneficial bacteria resides on the other “media” (?), i.e. walls, gravel, etc. (see quote below re: my confusion)

you should consider getting a second filter so that you do not remove all of your bacteria bed every time you clean the filter. Removal of the biological filter media (and its bacteria bed) will cause your tank to cycle again, which can be fatal to your fish.
Any thoughts / advice on this?