Black moor not looking good: Help me pleeeeeeeeeze!!!!

[Goldiegupp]

I know my fish are under stress...took a water sample to a LFS and confirmed it, everything was in the safe perameter but my ammonia was in the "stress" level. (they didn't have an exact #) Tank is overcrowded and my poor baby black moor Coal's top fin is looking transparent at the top and frayed. Fins are frayed and clamped, he acts listless, and I KNOW he's gonna die if I don't do something. With a water change only 2 days away, I'm hoping he'll hold on til then, but if not...ahhhhhhhhh! Love the little guy to peices, and I know what will be best would be to upgrade to a bigger tank.

Currently I have a teeny black moor, a 2 inch fantail and a 1 1/2 inch red cap in a 10 gallon tank. Turned the sponge filter on high...hoped it would get em through til I can deal with this. Today I was at a secondhand shop and saw what I guessed was a used 35-40 gallon with a carbon filter, stand, light, hood, heater, thermometer, and gravel for $12. Unfortunately, it was pretty battered and didn't look able to stand a second use.. but it would be AWESOME to get something similar, which I am hoping *crossed fingers* will come in some time.

Mean time, what do I do for ammonia??? got no ammonia adjusters on hand...should I risk an early water change tonight, maybe a 10 or 20% and then another on saturday...??? Is it ok to do that or will the filter not cycle properly with so many frequent water changes??? heeeeeeeeellllllllllppppppppppp pppppllllllleeeeeeezzzzzeeeee!!!! Don't wanna loose this cutie.

 

[OrangeCones]

You can do daily or more often water changes. Just make sure the new water is the same temperature as the tank's water and use a dechloriniator. Some bind ammonia, such as Seachem's Prime, which may help your situation some.

It is a myth that water changes will 'delay' the cycle processing. The beneficial bacteria live on hard surfaces for the most part, so doing water changes does not affect their numbers much at all. If you have high ammonia or nitrite, the bacteria is not able to process the load being put out by the fish, so taking some out with water changes is not going to starve the beneficial bacteria at all.

 

[Goldiegupp]

Okay...thanks for replying so quickly, I know I've been asking alot of questions lately. So what you're saying is a water change won't actually hurt the cycle or the bacteria? I'm glad to hear that.

Hopefully I'll get that new tank soon, and then I won't have to worry so much. I'm just on edge. And overfeeding. I'm scared my two bigger goldies will eat all the food and he's blind as a bat, and doesn't stand a chance against those guys. So my strategy is to cram their mouths full of food until they can't fit anymore in, then little Coal can eat while they're chewing. Not such a good idea I guess haha. Is there another way to make sure he gets his food without overfeeding???

 

[OrangeCones]

If you still have the divider you used to section off the tank, guide the moor to one side of the tank so he's alone to eat. Just leave it in while he's eating.

With your stocking issues, I would not be feeding the fish except very small amounts every other day.

 

[lauraf]

Hey Goldiegupp, I'd do some pretty large water changes daily, treating the new water with Prime, until your ammonia is under control - that's a way bigger trauma to your fish than whether they get their mouths around food. OrangeCones is totally correct in that your cycle will not be negatively affected at all. Also, I know that they can be expensive, but you should really get yourself your own liquid test kit so that you can monitor your water. Before you buy anything else - other than Prime for your water, if you aren't using it already (Prime rocks!)- buy a liquid test kit. OMG, it will make your fishkeeping experience so much more enjoyable because you will at least have a basic understanding of whether your fish are in danger before they show major distress.
Also fish won't starve to death in the matter of a few days. Overfeeding is only contributing to your ammonia problems, which as you correctly state is causing your fish stress. I'm curious, why is your moor 'blind as a bat'? Is he actually physically impaired? Have you been buying these fish from a fish store, or getting them from someplace else?
Anyway, you've got your heart in the right place. There's just some caretaking changes that need to happen for your fishez to be happy and healthy superstars!

 

[Goldiegupp]

Thank you guys both. Well heehee he's not LITERALLY 100% blind, but he does have trouble seeing food before the other fish. I've read that's normal as far as moors go. And I actually brought in the water sample before any of this was happening...I noticed the effects of the ammonia when I got home that same night. I did the 10% water change and vacuumed the gravel, and will do another today. But when I woke up all the fish had ganged up on the poor little guy and were chasing him around the tank, ripping his fins, pecking at his sides, just making him miserable. I divided him off so he could have some peace while recovering (if he does, *crossed fingers*).
When I brought the water in for a test, they used the same strip thingy I have! I was like, ummmmm I could have just done that at home...but then they used a separate little strip I don't have to test the ammonia. I don't really know how liquid tests work and I've never used one...does it give very accurate readings or something like catagories "stress", "safe", "caution", etc.?
With so many fish in a ten gallon, my dad's telling me to get rid of some. But I just couldn't bear to part with them! I'm sooooo attatched to all their little personalities. What are the effects of overstocking a tank exactly so I can persuade him to let me get a 35 gal that I've always known I needed? I know they CAN'T stay in there forever. And what is prime? lol

 

[OrangeCones]

I did the 10% water change and vacuumed the gravel, and will do another today.

A 10% water change is not going to help your fish much. You should be doing 50% water changes at least daily until the ammonia level is 0. With the tank as overstocked as it is, it will likely never happen. There is just too much fish waste in a too small of a container for any amount of good bacteria to eat it.

But when I woke up all the fish had ganged up on the poor little guy and were chasing him around the tank, ripping his fins, pecking at his sides, just making him miserable.

This is a direct result of the overcrowding. Think of you and two of your best friends, crammed in a small closet together. At first, all is good. But it would not take long before you resent your friends from being there, want some space to yourself, want some privacy, want to sleep, but you can't because there are two others there, talking, eating, walking around, stepping on your toes. It could drive you to violence.

I don't really know how liquid tests work and I've never used one...does it give very accurate readings or something like catagories "stress", "safe", "caution", etc.?

The liquid test strips give you numbers, in parts per million (ppm). You want it to show zero ammonia, zero nitrite, and under 20 nitrate. If your test at the fish store did not give you numbers, you need to buy your own liquid test kit, or find another store that uses liquid tests.

With so many fish in a ten gallon, my dad's telling me to get rid of some.

I agree with dad. If you only have a 10gallon tank, only keep fish in it that can live in that sized tank.

What are the effects of overstocking a tank exactly so I can persuade him to let me get a 35 gal that I've always known I needed? I know they CAN'T stay in there forever.

Stunted growth, disease, injury from fighting, ammonia toxicity and nitrite toxicity, to name a few. All of which can lead to death. If you are going to keep 3 goldfish (what happened to the guppies?), you need a 40 gallon tank at a minimum. Goldfish need 20 gallons for 1, and 10 gallons for each additional one.

And what is prime?

Prime is a brand of dechloriniator made by Seachem. It also can detoxify ammonia (and nitrite if you read the instructions carefully).

 

[Goldiegupp]

I did the 50% change. Thanks for the info..took out the guppies, babies, the crazy one, all of em. It was too crowded...but it was also too late. Sadly we had to euthanize him. He was suffering so much...I couldn't have him die a slow death because of me. He was a great little guy. I miss him already, shed a few tears...feel like it was all my fault. At least I've learned the hard way.

I'm sorry I wasn't smart enough to look ahead.

 

[OrangeCones]

Sadly we had to euthanize him.

Sorry for your loss. Who is 'him'?

What happened to the guppies?