Confusion

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Fishman1995

Superstar Fish
#1
May 11, 2010
1,341
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0
North Carolina
#1
Ok i bought my Male betta today at the LFS and i told them i may come back later and get him a tank buddy. The lady who co owns is trying to tell me that i could add some of the following: Danios, Glo-fish, Neon's, Glass Catfish, or Oto's. I feel that some of this may be wrong, I think the catfish would be to big. Should i post a picture of the tank with my fish in it to help you guys decide or not. I really dont want to make my fishy's unhappy by overcrowing :( can any of you offer some advice PLEASE?
 

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blue_ram

Large Fish
#4
Jun 21, 2008
516
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Florida
#4
A 10 gallon might be harmful to the Betta especially if he is the lazy kind that likes to sit at the bottom. Betta's are not designed to sustain the weight of a 10 gallon's tank depth. The Betta's long fins will make getting to the surface a struggle.
 

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blue_ram

Large Fish
#6
Jun 21, 2008
516
0
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Florida
#6
A 2.5 gallon is the ideal size for 1 beta. A 10 gallon will work, but the fish's life will be shortened unless you add 3 inches of substrate and keep the water 2 inches below the rim. That will give him 8 inches of water. Big leafed plants also work because he will be able to rest on the leaves in the middle to top of the tank. In the wild they live in water that is 2-6 inches deep. IIRC their swim bladder cannot handle anything deeper than 12 inches and anything more than 8 inches puts a stress on them.
 

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OrangeCones

Elite Fish
#7
Feb 27, 2009
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#7
Sorry for continuing the highjacking of your thread, Fishman.

blue_ram said:
A 2.5 gallon is the ideal size for 1 beta. A 10 gallon will work, but the fish's life will be shortened unless you add 3 inches of substrate and keep the water 2 inches below the rim. That will give him 8 inches of water. Big leafed plants also work because he will be able to rest on the leaves in the middle to top of the tank. In the wild they live in water that is 2-6 inches deep. IIRC their swim bladder cannot handle anything deeper than 12 inches and anything more than 8 inches puts a stress on them.
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Where did you learn this information?

I know a gal that breeds betta in 10 gallon tanks with no issues. Some of hers are 5 yrs old and have lived their whole lives in 10 gallon aquariums.
 

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blue_ram

Large Fish
#8
Jun 21, 2008
516
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Florida
#8
OrangeCones said:
Sorry for continuing the highjacking of your thread, Fishman.



Where did you learn this information?

I know a gal that breeds betta in 10 gallon tanks with no issues. Some of hers are 5 yrs old and have lived their whole lives in 10 gallon aquariums.
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How deep does your friend keep the water in the Betta tanks? If she is breeding, then it most likely is 6 inches or less.

Betta's have evolved over thousands of years to survive in water that is 2-6 inches deep. The swim bladder is a specialized organ that evolves with the fish to specific environments. If this is the environment the fish evolved in, any parameters outside of this will cause undue stress to the fish. You have to consider that the Betta is a highly specialized organism.

Water pressure at 6 inches depth is 6 x 0.03613 = .21678 psi
Water pressure at 1ft depth is 12 x 0.03613 = .433 psi

Could you live comfortably at 2x atmospheric pressure?

Placing a betta in a full 10g tank will expose him to water pressure double that of which he is physically designed to live in.

I have also been looking into this in regards to caring for Blue Rams because they also have evolved to live in shallow pools like the Betta and dropping them in an 18 or 20 inch deep tank might be the cause for prevelant swim bladder problems.
 

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OrangeCones

Elite Fish
#9
Feb 27, 2009
4,395
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#9
I'm not going to argue the point, but I would still like to know the source of your information that states that anything over 6" deep is stressful to the Betta splendens.
 

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OrangeCones

Elite Fish
#11
Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
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#11
My betta breeder friend says that she keeps the water level on the breeding quarters low on the bubble nest builders (some of her betta species are mouth brooders) only to make it easier for the male to tend the fry, less swimming to get from bottom to top to replace those eggs or fry that fell from the nest. When they are not actively tending a nest, they have the entire 10 gallons (no substrate, so a full 12" of water) to swim in.

Females in groups are kept in 40gallon breeder tanks which are 16" deep, but have substrate as they are planted.
 

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blue_ram

Large Fish
#12
Jun 21, 2008
516
0
0
Florida
#12
Just because the fish survives does not mean it is thriving. Mollies survive in fresh water, but thrive in brackish! African cichlids survive regular tap water but thrive in (relatively) high ph environments. Angels survive in a community tank with no heater, but they thrive when the heater os turned up to 80.

A betta can live up to 8 years possibly longer if raised from fry and not subjected to living in a soup can for it's first 6 months. Living 5 years means that it lived 2 years longer than the average fish kep in a soupcan.

The betta splendens is adapted to living in very shallow water, it is a highly specialized organism. Why would you change their environment?
 

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Fishman1995

Superstar Fish
#13
May 11, 2010
1,341
0
0
North Carolina
#13
True native bettas live in small shallow holes, but ive bred bettas suprisingly once before. I raised 3 males and 3 females from birth (the rest i sold to the fish store) They all lived 6 at least and my one male Sparky live 9 years. He was kept in a 10 gallon with his 2 best buddys Bo and Jo the Albino catfish, they stayed together all the time lol, it was so cute. Now you gonna tell me that they wont thrive? i belive me and OC would know, and im not trying to argue, il keep my fish my way and you keep yours your way :)
 

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OrangeCones

Elite Fish
#14
Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
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#14
If you don't have a source for your information, nevermind.

I always try to learn, but to just take someone's word for it, is not learning, it is just listening to an opinion.

Thanks anyway.
 

tropicalcrazy

tropicalcrazy

Large Fish
#15
Nov 19, 2008
702
0
0
Des Moines, Iowa
#15
whenever anyone tells me something i ALWAYS check other responses on other forums im on and i also research and do reading on specific articles AND i will check google for my question and look what everyone has to say

AND

i do this all before i believe anyone.

this hobby is too expensive for anyone to be making mistakes.

i will say this though, when i get to know someone on a forum and talk to them and they have been right about a lot of things, if i ask a question to them again i dont do a whole lot of research just a little
 

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Fishman1995

Superstar Fish
#16
May 11, 2010
1,341
0
0
North Carolina
#16
Ok i got a question, I redid my 5 gallon, but i used the same filter it never stopped running except threw the tank cleaning, it still had the brown stuff in it, and i used the same plants and decoration. Would this tank be considered "new" and have to go threw the cycle or not? its been setup for a week and still nothing unusual all the parameters seem to be normal, and my betta is fine as well.
 

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blue_ram

Large Fish
#20
Jun 21, 2008
516
0
0
Florida
#20
Nearly every published article regarding this hobby is someone's opinion and most are based upon trial and error and not on scientific fact; at much distress to the fish.

It is a fact that nature seeks to perfect an organism to it's environment.
It is a fact that Betta's have evolved over thousands of years to thrive in very shallow water.

Fishkeepering carries witrh it the responsibility to care for these creatures in a way which replicates their natural environment as closely as possible.

Where are your scientific articles that Bettas thrive in environments which DO NOT replicate their natural environment?


@tropicalcrazy Your guidance should first stem from common sense; following conventional wisdom means that you are prone to repeat the mistakes that everyone else makes. Conventional wisdom is what relegated Bettas to living in dixie cups.
 

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