Found my old tank!

[Wreckonized]

So we found our old 60 gal fish tank, bought a stand, and got a filter, and a heater, some rocks, and 2 fake plants and giant rock for decor. my dad doesnt want to deal with live plants. We hvae 2 angel fish, 2 silver dollars, 2 of these silver fish with red lining on the bottom (related to betas), and 2 silver with green lining on top ( not sure, my dad bought these). I got 4 minnows for fun, and a rainbow shark and theyre all living together. the rainbow shark made its home behind the heater (long tube against the back of the tank) and the other fish just swim around. Oh we also have one of those algae eaters i think? the ones that stick to walls and eat the dirt and what not. I also got a beta, and left it in a bag, and filled it with air, and left the bag dangling in the water. The other fish came up and the beta opened up and looked agressive. So i kept him separate, but i took a small little tank, really small but bigger than the jars they keep the betas in, drilled holes and its suspended inside the tank so it shares water with the rest of teh tank, but its separated from the fish, keeping them safe (it looks cool) and it has a lid on top so the guy doesnt jump out and go crazy on everyone. So, my question here is, what other fish can i add to this tank, because it still looks plain to me, im looking for brighter fish to liven it up a little (need yellow/blue because those are the only colors missing really). Any good fish that come in those colors that would live peacefully with these fish i have now? Any suggestions on how to improve my tank? I want to get another shark, but i feel thats a bad idea especially with the rainbow shark in there already. I just basically want some diversity in my tank, i was thinking about black ghosts cuz they look cool when they swim haha, but i was also thinking about some shrimp cause those are really different and will definitely add some diversity.

Looking forward to some responses!

 

[bassbonediva]

I wouldn't be worried about the other fish getting beaten up by the betta. I'd be worried about everything else beating up on your betta. Male bettas aren't very fast-moving fish and those long, flowing fins are extremely tempting to other fish. Within a week you'd either have a betta with no fins, or a dead betta. Male bettas don't belong in community tanks (I know of one person who has done it successfully, but his tank is EXTREMELY HEAVILY planted with live plants), regardless of whether or not they're separated from everyone else. Your betta will get severely stressed by all those other fish coming up to his enclosure and him not being able to do anything about it. Please get your betta boy his own nice filtered, heated tank (something in the 3-5gal range is perfect) so that he can be healthy and happy.

As for everything else...try plugging the fish you have into aqadvisor.com and see what it says. It's a great stocking tool and can be really fun to play around with. It'll also let you see if your fish are compatible or not (which is actually more important than whether or not you have enough space for them). Oh, and the blue/red fish that's related to the betta is a gourami...probably a dwarf gourami, by the sounds of the coloring.

 

[lauraf]

Hi Wreckonized, welcome to the forum.
My first concern is whether you have cycled your tank at all before adding the fish that you did. Kinda sounds like you didn't . . . .? Do you and your family know about cycling a tank? Not to presume . . . . .
But if you haven't 'cycled' your tank - which means getting the balance of bacteria that will eat and transform ammonia and nitrite into less harmful levels of nitrate (which you then remove via good regular water changes) - the last thing you need to worry about is the colours of fish to add. You may have a huge and sad problem with the fish dying.
So, hey, all of here have made terrible mistakes, or thought we didn't need any advice. But since you've taken the trouble to start talking with us, we are soooo going to want to help you out with this tank.
First - like bassbonediva said, that betta should at least be put in a small tank or go back to the fish store.
Second - do you have liquid test kits to test the levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? If not, buy immediately.
Third, would you and your family even consider taking all the fish back so that you could prep the tank properly via a 'fishless cycle'? If not, then you need to know that you are going to have to do a 'fish-in cycle', to prevent most if not all of your fish from dying. It's quite a bit of work, but if you don't do it, your fish will suffer and die, and most other fish you try and add will also die. You must get your tank 'cycled' by one means or another.
Anyhoo, sorry if that's a lot of crap to hear when you just joined. But please keep posting and let us know where you are at. When the tank is cycled, then the fun part about adding different fish to the tank begins.
BTW - congrats on a bit of natural common sense about not adding another shark. That's good 'knows'.

 

[TAL]

Bass...make that two people you know who have male bettas in community tanks !

I understand the points you make, but I have been doing it for a while.

I do give the Betta some hiding spots and he uses them. He also like the floating fake plants I put in. He took right to those! It let's him get out of the plants and up on top of the water white he just chills out. The other fish leave him alone.

 

[tom91970]

Bass...make that two people you know who have male bettas in community tanks !

Might as well make that three. I've had male bettas in community tanks for years with no problems...just gotta know what not to mix them with.

 

[TAL]

Laura..... Color choice is a big factor though....Who doesn't want to see some cool looking fish swim! Heck - it is half the fun! But yea......color choice shouldn't happen in a vacuum.

 

[Wreckonized]

Unfortunately we did not know about this cycling process. My dad used to use the tank like 10 years ago, and i dont think he ever cycled them and im assuming they were fine since he decided to put this tank back together and add more fish. So knowing that, i doubt he would be able to return the fish to do the fishless cycle meaning im going to need some help and understanding on this fish in cycle. We did get two small white bottles to help with the water, Amquel and novaqua. One to remove nitrate nitrtie ammonia chloramines and chlorine, and the other to condition the water with echinacea, vitamins and anti virus protection.

Can someone explain the how the fish in cycle works and what we would need for it? also im going to get some more plants to try to get the betta to live with the other fish in the tank, but see how that goes later.

what are some good and easy live plants to start out with?

thanks

 

[bassbonediva]

Good for you for trying to do this right!

Good beginner plants include hornwort (floating plant that your betta will love), anubias (nice broad-leafed plant), anacharis, java fern, and java moss.

 

[TAL]

Lots of people start tanks without cycling the tank. But it is stressful on the fish and some MAY die during the process. Some deal better than others. The ideal way is to put fish in a cycled tank.

Basically, fish waste and left over fish foods will produce ammonia.

Ammonia kills fish BUT WAIT.....

Ammonia is eaten by little bacterium and that saves the fish from ammonia.

But...that bacterium produces nitrite.

Nitrite kills fish. In fact it doesn't take a whole lot of ammonia or Nitrite to kill fish.

But Wait....there's more.

There is another bacterium that like to eat nitrites. And that saves the fish.

But that bacterium produces nitrates. Nitrates kill fish. But get this...

It takes a lot of nitrates to kill fish so it can build up a while without harm. How to get rid of the nitrates you ask? Three basic ways...one of which is not popular.

1) Water exchanges.
2) Plants - real ones dude.
3) UGF's well kind of..... like the system I have been trying out. But eventually you could end up with old tank syndrome..... this is the unpopular method....UGF's are not widely loved. Topic for another post.....

So when cycling - you are looking to get these little bacterium going first - then you add fish.....(not all at once - gradually - so the bacteria colonies have time to grow with the production of ammonia and nitrites.) You can add food to an empty tank regularly....watch for the ammonia spike......keep adding food and testing. Watch for the nitrite spike(ammonia levels will drop 'casue it is being eaten).......keep adding and testing.....then Whammo - nitrate spike(Nitrites levels will drop 'cause it is being eaten)....add a fish or two. Wait.....add a fish or two.....etc....

You can also jump start if you can take your new filter and leave it soaking in someone's established tank so it becomes colonized with the right bacteria....this gets things going faster and is a common practice with those uf us suffering from MTS.

ANyways.....thats is my quick comments after having eaten a really big cheeseburger and need to get back to work now kind of explanation and hopefully I didn;t make too many typo's.

TAL out.

 

[Thyra]

You might want to check this site: Information on Setting Up Your New Aquarium - The First Tank Guide - Fish Tanks, Fish Bowls, Aquariums, Aquarium Filters, Aquarium Heaters, Choosing Fish, Aquarium Information

It will answer some of your questions. This "fishless cycling" is relatively new from what I have been reading (10 years or so), but I still haven't found the origin of it and I am starting to think it hasn't hit the west coast as yet because I still haven't found anyone who knows what I am talking about. Also after two weeks of searching, I was unable to find pure ammonia.

 

[bassbonediva]

I'm relatively on the west coast (AZ) and I found out about fishless cycling through the internet, so I'm thinking you're right, Thyra. Have you checked Do-It-Best hardware stores? That's where I found surfactant-free pure ammonia when I first set up my 55gal.

 

[lauraf]

Laura..... Color choice is a big factor though....Who doesn't want to see some cool looking fish swim! Heck - it is half the fun! But yea......color choice shouldn't happen in a vacuum.

TAL, colour is a big factor - but my pretty-coloured fishehs don't looks so good when they's dead *BOUNCINGS

 

[lauraf]

Wreckonized, don't add any more fish yet. You have more than enough fish to act as an ammonia source for the bacteria to colonize.
Buy the liquid test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Add plants, for sure - they'll help. Test the water every day, and be prepared to do partial water changes to keep the ammonia low. You might lose some fish unfortunately, but if you can't take them back, then you'll just have to be really dilligent about water testing and changes for awhile. Good luck - keep us posted!

 

[Wreckonized]

okay, so i went to a lfs that sells tropical fish and talked to the guy about cycling and he kind of explained it, but that explination earlier with the ammonia nitrites and nitrates really helped, thanks for that. He told me i wouldnt really need to do a fishless cycle (live in socal so i guess the west coast thing still rings true) and that leaving them in there was okay, just being mindful of feeding them less than usual for the first few weeks, and trying to add some plants. He advised me to not add anymore fish and i had to ask him if they sold plants (seems knowledgeable and helpful, unlike the other places ive been to, always trying to pressure me into buying something). So he had these plants for sale, he said he had 2 kinds that were easy to care for, forgot the names, but they were potted and dont need to be rooted, and said they would help. 3 for $10 so ill probably go back sometime this week to get them. Im also going away out of town for 4 days, would the fish be ok without food for 4 days? i figured it would only help with the balancing of the bacteria and the other things. Also about the betta, i let him out into the tank to see how he would do and there was ntohing wrong. I have one giant rock and two big fake plants in my tank which is actually 70 gal i think, and there wasnt any trouble but after 10 minutes i decided to put him back in his own tank because i was going to go do something else and didnt have time to watch him. The only thing i noticed was he went to the same place my rainbow shark is it, under the rock ledge and between a plant and they just both sat there for a while. After adding a few more plants im planning on trying to get the betta to be able to live with the other fish, but ill be watching it for about an hour every time i let him into the tank. Ill take some pics of the tank to help get some ideas, and take pictures of those fish i cant identify in my tank...thanks for all the help, and im looking for some more ideas and advice as usual

 

[Thyra]

Bass, (?) I understand from an earlier entry that you will be moving to WA - just so you know - there aren't any Do It Best Hardwares here, so don't be disappointed. I do think you will like it here though.

 

[TAL]

I've heard finding the ammonia you can use in the tank is hard thing to do....

I think fishless cycles are new everywhere.....Just we East Coasters get up to speed faster on new things - except fashion ideas and smog. We let you west coasters lead in those areas

I don;t think I have ever heard a LFS recommend a fishless cycle. They need you buying fish now..... And...yes, you can make this happen with the fish in the tank but that really goes up the butt of some people....

 

[lauraf]

Wreckonized, your fish should be fine without food for four days, but if you are doing a fish-in cycle, I'm concerned that your water might need changing while you are gone.
If you have no other option, then do a good water change before you go, get those plants in there, and make sure that when you get back you can do another water change right away. Did you get the liquid test kits yet?
Glad that your lfs seems like a good one. If you want to post the names of the plants, someone or other here can let you know if they will grow well. Just make sure that you buy truly aquatic plants - some places wil sell plants that are bog plants, and they'll rot when kept fully underwater.

 

[Wreckonized]

So i got 2 crappy pictures with my cell phone.
i know theyre terrible but i think youd be able to help me identify them from these pictures.
Not exactly sure which fish these are, i have 2 of each in the tank.

 

[Wreckonized]

Also im thinking of getting my own small tank in my room just so i can have MY OWN tank and do what i want with it.
Someone in my area is giving out mollies for adoption and i was thinking of getting some and having a heavily planted tank.
Any ideas or thoughts on that?

 

[bassbonediva]

The second one is a dwarf gourami. You need to take one of them back. Dwarf gouramis are related to bettas and are extremely territorial. You will either end up with two extremely stressed fish, or one dead gourami.

I think getting your own tank would be a great idea! If you're going to do mollies, though, just rememer that unless you get all males, you'll have TONS of fry. You'll need a 10gal MINIMUM.

Thyra-Way OT, but as long as there are pool supply stores up there, we're all good. I live in a tiny town where only like three people have in-ground pools that require pool filter sand, so it's next to impossible to find (found one other place that has it and they wanted $20 for a 20# bag).