Extremely persistent algae problem

[dt007]

Well my tank has been doing very well for a good 5 months. For a number of months now starting from this April, hair algae started showing up. It's growing in the gravel, the driftwood, on the filter and worst of all, on my plants. I start taking them out by hand every week, then it became every three days, and now I have to clean it out almost daily to avoid being overrun.

I've tried using SeaChem's Flourish, which supposedly kills hair algae, and added a number of amano shrimp in an attempt to clear it once and for all, but the shrimp strangely disappeared. I lost many plants to this abominable parasite and the few remaining now are heavily infested by the algae. Does anyone have any new solutions to remove this thing? I've tried so hard for soooo long and I'm on the verge of giving up

EDIT: thankfully my fish seem completely unaffected and are actually thriving in this environment. I used to have problems with them getting sick, and now its the reverse with the plants

 

[bassbonediva]

How long do you have your lights on per day?

Here's an answer from a different forum (I'll provide the link, but quote the pertinent part) How to get rid of hair algae - Freshwater & Saltwater Aquarium Forum

"... excel and hydrogen peroxide used prophylactically will hurt it. Caution here, both will kill both your fish and plants if used carelessly.

Green hair algae is easy to deal with. Mollies, platies, ottos, SAE all love it.

The best way to kill it is a 72 hour blackout. You should be able to do a search and find the instructions.

The reason it keeps coming back stronger is...when you hassle it it produces spores within 10 or 15 minutes. So filter cleaning is very important.

After the blackout...all the other stuff...Less light, less food, more vacuuming, bigger water changes etc."

I tried finding info on the 72 hour blackout they mentioned, but couldn't find anything on good...maybe a search on that particular forum would bring something useful up?

 

[OrangeCones]

I've tried using SeaChem's Flourish, which supposedly kills hair algae,

It is Seachem's Excel, not Flourish, that provides a carbon source to help your plants grow, but the algae cannot use that carbon. With the plants growing well, they will starve the algae of the carbon they need.

 

[dt007]

Lights are on for 12 hours a day, although I set it up such that one turns on an hour after the other, and the other way around when they're turning off. This is probably too much, looking at it, so I'll knock down a few hours.
I actually have 8 ottos right now, and I forgot to mention that this is a 29G tank.

Wouldn't a 72 hour blackout put the plants in severe danger as well, bassbonediva? Not to mention that the fish might suffocate from the sudden loss of oxygen for extended periods of time. Well I'll look it up, I'm certainly interested in this solution. Thank you for your help!

I didn't know the specifics of how the Flourish thing worked. Thanks a lot OrangeCones for pointing that out

 

[bassbonediva]

If you've got your filter running, it'll be oxygenating the water more than enough to compensate for any oxygen "lost" by doing the blackout. As for the blackout putting the plants in danger...I don't turn on my lights in some of my smaller tanks (my 5gals) for a few days at a time and my plants are fine. I think the plants just won't grow during that time.

 

[dt007]

Ok one last question before I do the blackout. If the plants will be fine during the blackout, why would the algae die? I really don't have a clue how algae function other than the fact that they supposedly thrive in sunlight. I want to know how to handle future algae outbreaks quickly before it turns messy like this one did.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[bassbonediva]

Plants require sunlight to GROW, not SURVIVE. Algae needs sunlight to SURVIVE, not just GROW. There's your difference.

To give you an example...I did a science experiment when I was in seventh grade that won me third prize. I took four 8"x8" pieces of grass from my yard. I put two in the sunlight and watered one with straight water and one with straight bleach. The other two I put in complete darkness and watered one with straight water and one with straight bleach. The one that was in complete darkness and watered with straight water actually grew, but not very well.

 

[OrangeCones]

Ok one last question before I do the blackout. If the plants will be fine during the blackout, why would the algae die?

The simple answer as to why a blackout is sometimes helpful to control algae is that algae is a much more basic form of life. It has little ability to 'store' energy for future use. Plants have root stock, stems, and leaves, all of which can store energy so that the plant can grow and survive during a blackout.

A blackout is not going to prevent any algae from coming back if you have not addressed the underlying imbalance that allowed it to thrive in the first place, however.

 

[TAL]

I had an algae breakout once.

You have never seen a happier pleco.

I actually felt bad getting it under control.

I'm eating wayyyy too many pringles.

 

[Fishman1995]

OC i luv your replies, why have you stopped replying to my forums

 

[Twiggles]

question .. would a 24 hour, or 48 hour blackout have any affect, or would it be pointless?

 

[bassbonediva]

It would have some effect, but probably not enough to make a different, Twiggles.

 

[Twiggles]

hermm that's what I was thinking too, thanks for the quick response lol *celebrate

 

[OrangeCones]

dt007, your best bet to control the algae is to add fast growing stem plants and floating plants that can outcompete the algae. To prevent its returning, the imbalance must be corrected to not give the algae a chance to thrive.

What light do you have on the tank (watts and K rating of bulb would be helpful information)? You mentioned you had the light(s) on for 12 hours. Have you reduced it to a shorter period?

Could you provide a list of the fish you keep in the tank?

What fertilizers do you use if any? Any carbon source besides the fish (CO2 injection, DIY CO2 or Seachem's Excel)?

To thrive, aquatic plants need three things (well, 4 really, but water is already covered eh?): light, carbon, and other fertilizers, all in balance. If you increase one, you must also increase the two at the same level. If you have too much of one, algae will gladly take up the excess and start to outcompete the plants for other nutrients it needs.

 

[blue_ram]

Ok one last question before I do the blackout. If the plants will be fine during the blackout, why would the algae die? I really don't have a clue how algae function other than the fact that they supposedly thrive in sunlight. I want to know how to handle future algae outbreaks quickly before it turns messy like this one did.

Thanks for all your help!

Plants mostly grow (cell division) in the dark through respiration utilizing the energy created during photosynthesis.

Algae, being simpler organisms (usually single celled) are unable to store enough energy to survive sustained periods of darkness.

Cut your light back to 6-8 hours per day and trim your plants. Give the tank time to stabilize and eventually the plants will outcompete the algae. usually different types of algae will start growing and outcompeting other algae before the plants take over. To accelerate the process, add some Water Sprite or Wisteria to the tank as both are fast growing less complex plants which will outcompete the algae for nutrients much quicker than stem or broad leafed plants.

The planted aquarium is a self contained ecosystem which requires stability and consistency in order to thrive. Only time and a consistent routine can give you this.

Here is a chart on how to get rid of different types of algae.

Algae Treatment and Prevention Charts | Rex's Guide to Planted Tanks

 

[Twiggles]

Plants mostly grow (cell division) in the dark through respiration utilizing the energy created during photosynthesis.

Algae, being simpler organisms (usually single celled) are unable to store enough energy to survive sustained periods of darkness.

Cut your light back to 6-8 hours per day and trim your plants. Give the tank time to stabilize and eventually the plants will outcompete the algae. usually different types of algae will start growing and outcompeting other algae before the plants take over. To accelerate the process, add some Water Sprite or Wisteria to the tank as both are fast growing less complex plants which will outcompete the algae for nutrients much quicker than stem or broad leafed plants.

The planted aquarium is a self contained ecosystem which requires stability and consistency in order to thrive. Only time and a consistent routine can give you this.

Here is a chart on how to get rid of different types of algae.

Algae Treatment and Prevention Charts | Rex's Guide to Planted Tanks

That was really well said, good thing I added some water wisteria to my tank lol. Also that link is really good, useful for sure *thumbsup2

 

[dt007]

well I have 4 light bulbs in 2 of those double buld holders. 2 are 24W and 2 are 18W, one of each with a 10,000K rating and the other two with 6,700K ratings. I believe a professional I talked to at my LFS said 2+ watts per gallon is ideal for the plants, and using the lights I have brings it up to 2.2 or something. They are pretty old however. I haven't changed bulbs for a year, I think that's too long.

I use Nutrafin's CO2 Natural Plant System for CO2, I think it was inactive for about 3 months however sometime near the end of March till June (I was busy with school ) I don't use any fertilizer other than Flourish like 3 times attempting to purge the algae. I do use one of those special plant gravels however, called Flourite Black by SeaChem. I think that's about it.

Fishes in my tank are: 10 serpae tetras, 9 rummy noses, about 10 neons, 8 ottos, and supposedly 19 amano shrimp which I never see (I did happen to see the original 5 I bought a long time ago quite recently however. I thought they died o.o) I also have a lot of Malaysian Trumpet Snails because my LFS recommended them to help the plants.

The tip about increasing everything equally hit the nail on the head I think. I confess I never really researched plant needs anywhere near enough compared to fishes, and I'm not sure exactly how they scale together.

I was planning on getting more plants yes, but I'm holding back for now because I'm afraid the algae will just infest the new ones. I've already killed a lot of plants
Thank you for your detailed responses, you guys have brought up quite a few things I never considered.

Edit: I missed blue_ram's post about algae. That chart looks really handy, thank you so much

 

[blue_ram]

That was really well said, good thing I added some water wisteria to my tank lol. Also that link is really good, useful for sure *thumbsup2

Thank you. The Wisteria and Water Sprite are such versatile plants. My Water sprite saved a tank that was neglected and had the filter get nuked and saved both a batch of cory fry and angel fry when they hatched and I had to quickly setup a new tank for them. Plus all the infusoria that grows on them fed the fry when my batches of baby brine shrimp failed.

 

[lauraf]

Not to hijack this thread, (oops, but I am! ) but I was reading that wonderful chart - I have a bit of black spots on my plants, particularly my anubias and java fern, plus a little bit that looks more green in colour on my terra cotta pots and glass. Doesn't seem to grow lots or spread very quickly. What kind of algae might this be?