Main Problem with Beginners

[techmynd]

The thing is, we always search and find forum after we have bought our fist fish tank and few fish. We should first read forums and then go for buying tank and fish.
Same happened with me. Over excited I bought a fish tank (22 gallons) and 18 fish. Aquarium shop holder never told me what to do or limit the fish quantity or go slow.
It looked nice at first but then aquarium started to remain dirty. I started to change water frequently. That did not helped.
I joined this forum and realized that I should have good filters. I installed under gravel filter and internal filter.
Because of Installation nitrogen cycle or fish tank cycle again became disturbed and I am sure It never was completed before.
Then I over fed fish in hope that they will grow rapidly and I will buy another big aquarium.
I think now Ammonia is pretty high in the tank and nitrogen cycle started. Now I did not change the water coz I want that cycle to be completed first at every cost. That is the only key to a happy aquarium.
One platy died in the process.
Today I spotted a bala shark inactive. It is slow and hanging upwards to the surface and taking heavy breaths. Its eyes also became blackish or at least I felt it that way.
During the aquarium nitrogen or ammonia cycle or whatever it is oxygen becomes less in water and fish can suffocate.
Now that bala shark is slow, not active, moving like he is sick.
I ran towards aquarium shop and took gravel from established tank and I have dropped that gravel in my fish tank.
I have stopped feeding fish. Now I know why everybody says don't over feed fish. Because ammonia level will rise and to consume that ammonia there should be established colonies of bacteria in the gravel.
I am now not feeding fish.
I have added gravel from established tank.
I have dropped few drops of all aid treatment for general fish ad.
Another thing, I have spotted Albino rainbow shark nibbling my sweet goldies.
I hope God help my fish and fish tank.
Any advice?

 

[littletankbigworld]

Return all of your fish to the store and do a fish-less cycle. You will continue to lose fish unless you do massive daily water changes and buy several large tanks and a pond for all those goldfish.
You are massively overstocked. Goldfish, for one, grow too large for your tank. Comet goldfish require 100 gallons of water PER FISH. Plecos require 75 or more gallons of water. Sharks cannot live together in such a small tank. There are so many things wrong with the fish you selected, that rather than type a paragraph, I'm going to tell you to take all your fish back to the store. Once there are no fish in your tank, you can do a fish-less cycle. Do you have a liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite?

 

[ryanoh]

To back up what littletank said, fish produce ammonia from their gils just as a consequence of being alive, so there's going to be an increasing amount of it in your tank regardless of if you're feeding them or not.

 

[phin]

have you looked at www.aqadvisor.com? It might be a good place to start.

 

[OrangeCones]

fish produce ammonia from their gils just as a consequence of being alive, so there's going to be an increasing amount of it in your tank regardless of if you're feeding them or not.

Ammonia is not produced by the gills. It is a waste product produced by urine and feces.

 

[aakaakaak]

Step 1 - Return your fish to the store for credit.
Step 2 - Read all of the links here: http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/fre...eshwater-beginner-stickies-read-me-first.html
Step 3 - Wait for your fishless cycle to balance out.
Step 4 - Plug your information into AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor and get a good idea of what you can and can't put in your tank.
Step 5 - Research each of the fish you're planning on putting in your tank and that they're all compatible with each other and with the tank setup.
Step 6 - Ask other fish keepers (I.E. this forum or others) if what you're planning will work as intended. (I'm doing this part now for my 29 gal)
Step 7 - Go get one type of fish you're going to get.
Step 8 - wait a week
Step 9 - repeat steps 7 and 8 until you have all your tank fully established.

 

[ryanoh]

Ammonia is not produced by the gills. It is a waste product produced by urine and feces.

Is ammonia not secreted through the gills as well? I've read this several other places. I guess it doesn't matter though because the fact of the matter is that fish put ammonia in the water weather you feed them or not.

 

[phin]

Ammonia is not produced by the gills. It is a waste product produced by urine and feces.

Ammonia is excreted through the gills. In fact, most (75%-80%) ammonia produced by a fish is excreted through the gills and only a fraction (1/4) excreted through the vent.

 

[techmynd]

Thanks @littletankbigworld
Thanks @ryanoh
Thanks @phin
Thanks @OrangeCones
Thanks @aakaakaak
Thanks @phin
I took 4 little buckets water out and put this much new water.
Did not feed fish yet. I did feed in the morning, now its late night. I plan to feed fish tomorrow now. I will feed less now. Twice a day and not much.
WooHoooo! the bala shark is normal now. Blackish eye returned to normal and he is walking in there quite well.
I saw the other bala shark was swimming near by the other and he was pushing sometimes the sick shark like he was helping him or encouraging him - or it can be just my feeling, i don't know.
I am returning rainbow sharks and two yellow and white coy (Koi) tomorrow.
And I am building big tank sooner.
Thank you guys.

 

[achase]

he was pushing sometimes the sick shark like he was helping him or encouraging him - or it can be just my feeling, i don't know.

I don't know if fish are helpful rather checking to see if it's dead so he can nibble on it.

Good job returning the fish what fish will remain? Is there a particular reason you don't want to return all your fish and do a fishless cycle?

 

[techmynd]

@achase:

These fish will stay for the time being.
2 Pleco
2 Albino Tinfoil Barbs
2 White Butterfly koi (coy)
2 Red and White Comet Goldfish
2 Fantail Goldfish
2 Bala Sharks
1 Red Wag Platy

The problem arose when I changed under gravel filter and installed an internal filter and because I did not know about the cycle I washed the gravel. Huge water change also followed afterward.

Actually I have bought the fish and if I return all of them, then how can I get them back in case someone else take them. I like what I have now. They seem to have grown a bit also in one week.

After I took gravel from established tank and put in my fish tank and then changed few little buckets of water and lowering the food quantity, the problem seem to be solved.

The bala shark is fine now. He is back to normal - 90%. And I have now started to plan faster for my new big aquarium, these all will go in bigger aquarium.

I have heard that fish push other slow fish to encourage him. Not sure if its true. If a fish is sick and acting weird then chances are some of other fish around him will imitate the sick fish - may be to raise alarm about the situation. They imitate and they are healthy, because if you go near, they all disperse and continue what they normally do.

Bala shark don't fight with each other. Albino rainbow sharks fight with each other and they chase each other.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Still learning and long way to go yet.

 

[techmynd]

Please help me here:
http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/equipment/62070-diy-fish-tank-aquarium-requirements.html

 

[brian1973]

he is correct most ammonia is excreted thru the gills, heres one of many links about this topic Urea Cycle.

Sorry in advance if I seem blunt or harsh, that is not the way this is intended but since it is in text it may come across that way.

I dont believe a fish would try to encourage another fish, I think it is more likely they want to nibble on it. Who would the fish be raising an alarm to?? I think whoever came up with that theory is trying to assign human actions and emotions to a fish.

I usually dont preach about stocking to others because I dont follow the norms myself but Goldfish need a large tank, most plecos grow to extremely large sizes and a very aggressive when they get bigger, 2 plecos in one tank is a bad idea. My pleco fights with my oscars and various other fish, I have even had a pleco try numerous time a day to kill a red eared slider (turtle), I had to remove the turtle for its own safety. The bala sharks grow very large as well, with potential for over 12in in length.

The bottom line is your going to need a 200+ Gallon tank for the fish you have now, return your fish, do some research and choose fish within your capabilities. Your title to this thread is the problem with beginners so you obviously recognize the problem so it is up to you to be part of the solution, if you kill the fish then you wont have them either, so let someone who can give them the proper home take them.

 

[Thyra]

I posted a site as you suggest for a DIY aquarium. Just realize that the size you are suggesting will weigh well over a ton by the time you get substrate, water and decor in it. I didn't look at the complete details so hopefully it also tells you of the problems with DIY lighting and filtration at that size.

 

[techmynd]

@brian1973: Alright. They will grow bigger but they are small now and I am building a large tank meanwhile. Pleco trying to kill the turtle...That's strange. My plecos are small and they are peaceful scrubbers. Yes Goldfish excrete ammonia through gills as well. Goldfish can recognize faces, voices and respond a bit if trained. I have read goldfish article at wikipedia. My fish need 6 month when I will be able to see size changes in them and before that I will have a bigger aquarium. My bala shark has revived 100%.
If I will notice anything bad I will return all fish straightaway. 4 of them I am returning today.

Who would the fish be raising an alarm to?

To owner! Goldfish has got brains. Koi (coy) fish might have as well. Koi seem to imitate behavior of other fish if the other is sick and acting strange. Just observation,... not confirmed.

@Thyra: Yea! I am going for 72-24-24 inches. 180 gallons, 680 litres water capacity with 12 mm glass thickness. Once it will be confirmed that specs are okay I will go for it. I am not sure about the glass thickness. I need experiences from other guests here.

Thank you guys.

 

[techmynd]

I have even had a pleco try numerous time a day to kill a red eared slider (turtle), I had to remove the turtle for its own safety.

@brian1973: Your pleco was trying to scrub the dirt / algae away from your turtle's shell - not trying to eat em'. Poor turtle. I say put back your turtle and let pleco scrub em' clean. Kidding! If I were you I would be concerned about pleco, not the turtle. Turtle can eat pleco but pleco will only scrub everything it can find. You can see it at youtube.
Pleco don't eat other fish.
How pleco will eat other fish? Pleco is vegetarian and its mouth is at the down side which can only scrub.

Keep Turtles in separate tanks. Turtles can eat / hurt fish. Even small turtles nibble other fish.

 

[littletankbigworld]

You have way too many fish and even a 200 gallon tank would be two small. The only two fish that would fit in a 200 gallon would be your two comet goldfish as they require 100 gallons PER FISH. Also, goldfish are cold water fish and all of your other fish are tropical, so even if you did purchase a 1000 gallon tank, you would not be able to keep all those fish together. There are so many things wrong with the fish that, like I said before, you should rehome all of them because your problems cannot be fixed with a larger tank.

 

[brian1973]

@brian1973: Your pleco was trying to scrub the dirt / algae away from your turtle's shell - not trying to eat em'. Poor turtle. I say put back your turtle and let pleco scrub em' clean. Kidding! If I were you I would be concerned about pleco, not the turtle. Turtle can eat pleco but pleco will only scrub everything it can find. You can see it at youtube.
Pleco don't eat other fish.
How pleco will eat other fish? Pleco is vegetarian and its mouth is at the down side which can only scrub.

Keep Turtles in separate tanks. Turtles can eat / hurt fish. Even small turtles nibble other fish.

You as a self proclaimed beginner have the experience to know the difference between violent behavior and feeding behavior of a Plecostomous? I do, but thank you for your concern. i was trying to explain the violent tendencies of a Pleco but Obviously your getting advice from Youtube and dont want to heed the warning myself and others have given you so I will not waste anymore of my time. Good luck with your tank.

 

[achase]

I think it's cool idea to build your own tank but I agree with littletankbigworld your current fish selection will never work in the long run. Yes, that may seem fine for the short term but I doubt all your fish will live a long healthy life, which is the goal of fish keeping is it not?

You would be better off choosing your favorite fish from amongst your current selection and provide that particular fish with a specular environment and possibly give him companions that are suitable to him and his environment.

This is just my advice and you are free to do as you wish.

 

[techmynd]

@brian1973: Sorry brian. I don't really know much about fish yet.
@achase: Thanks.
I have given back all my fish. I have got only two goldies (faintail) now in 22 gallons.