Feel like the tank is screwed.

[fisherjean]

I posted in the disease forum about how one of the neons is much darker than the others and picking on everyone. I still don't know what to think - he has a black powdery film on him. Now I think both the phantoms have that as well, and a couple of other neons are pale and I think I see gold powdery-ness on them.

The water parameter snafu opened the door to some nastiness I'm afraid.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I don't have a quarantine tank yet, and I'm unsure whether or not I should treat the whole tank now anyway, if I can even figure out what to treat it FOR. Blech!

After I started stabilizing the pH, the phantoms color both really improved but now it seems like they may have swim bladder. More activity and less hovering in place, but they're acting tippy and drunk, swimming at an angle etc.

And the neons - how much wandering is too much? Are schooling fish supposed to stay together as a pack all the time? Because mine definitely don't. And one of the brochis splendens was itching himself on the gravel yesterday. Just once, but it made me panic.

I'm really bumming about all this and I really don't know what my next step should be.

The only positive I can come up with at the moment is that nobody's died yet and I have a better handle on mixing tap and RO after this last week. But blah!

 

[betta lover22]

QUOTE FROM FISH-DISEASE.NET
<Symptoms:

Black patches, smudges, smears, spots or markings that suddenly appear and are not natural colorings.

Cause:

These markings are the result of skin cell damage. Black markings often appear in areas where the skin has been damaged by ammonia burns, bacterial infections, parasitic infestations, and injuries. These markings are often seen on fish just after a new tank has completed �cycling,� due to the high ammonia levels.

Treatment:

No treatment is necessary. Much like scabs, the blackened areas are a sign that the healing process has already begun. Keep water in top condition and the areas will gradually fade in less than a couple of weeks.>

 

[misterking]

^ This doesnt sound like scale damage.

Have you considered whether it might be velvet disease? The dusty coating is a very typical symptom. Can cause all sorts of secondary infections.

Try not to panic, which I know is difficult when it looks like everything's going wrong in something you've put so much money into. Is there any way you could get some pictures of the fish and the rest of the tank? What were the readings on your parameter test?

 

[fisherjean]

Yeah, I'm definitely wondering about velvet. I'm trying to get pictures, it's tough!

If I was to treat for velvet, can I do the whole tank? I know you want to remove the carbon filter right? What else would I need to know? I'm not going to just run out and start adding medications willy nilly here, but just looking for info today I guess.

I haven't tested today yet. Yesterday:

ammonia 0.25
nitrite 0
nitrate 10
ph 7.4
GH 5
Kh 6

The tank was totally cycled and then lost it. I think that's related maybe to a sudden pH fluctuation from only using RO water and not knowing to add buffers and minerals back in, but I'm not sure. I've only been feeding every other day since the ammonia bumped back up, and I've been doing lots of small (like 5 gallon) water changes and using prime with the blend of RO and tap I'm using. I don't know if the Prime is messing with the ammonia results or what.

I'll try to get pictures again.

 

[OrangeCones]

The tank was totally cycled and then lost it. I think that's related maybe to a sudden pH fluctuation from only using RO water and not knowing to add buffers and minerals back in, but I'm not sure.

The 'good' bacteria stops multiplying at a pH in the low 5s if I remember right, and can completely die off if it hits 4.8.

I don't know if the Prime is messing with the ammonia results or what.

If your test kit measures TOTAL ammonia, the water treated with Prime will indicate a FALSE POSITIVE in the result you see. Prime will bind the ammonia (turning it to ammonium, which is non-toxic to fish). Most hobby tesk kits measure NH3 and NH4+ (check the instructions to be sure). The binding lasts a few days and does not interfer with either the good bacteria from consuming it, or a healthy plant.

 

[fisherjean]

I'm pretty sure it didn't make it to the 5s. It did swing from high 7s to mid 6s pretty suddenly though.

Test kit does say total ammonia - I'm using API Master Kit, so that would explain why I can't seem to get back to 0 ammonia right now. I guess that means don't stress so much over that particular reading right? Is there a chlorine/chloramine remover/slime coat additive that doesn't touch ammonia? Do I need an additional ammonia kit? I got the API one before I got the API Master kit, but that's total ammonia as well.

Uploading some images now. It's 3 or 4 of the neons at least. Possibly the phantoms as well.

ONE NEON HERE

 

[OrangeCones]

I'm pretty sure it didn't make it to the 5s. It did swing from high 7s to mid 6s pretty suddenly though.

The more acidic it gets (the lower the pH goes), the nitrifying bacteria do not multiply as fast, so if it got lower than what was 'normal,' it would have slowed their activity down. I hope things are going to stabilize for you now.

Test kit does say total ammonia - I'm using API Master Kit, so that would explain why I can't seem to get back to 0 ammonia right now. I guess that means don't stress so much over that particular reading right? Is there a chlorine/chloramine remover/slime coat additive that doesn't touch ammonia? Do I need an additional ammonia kit? I got the API one before I got the API Master kit, but that's total ammonia as well.

When the dechlorinator binds the ammonia, it will still show up on the 'total ammonia' test kit. There are other test kits, but they can be pricey for a hobbiest to use a lot.

If you can find it, Seachem (the maker of Prime) makes a disk called "Ammonia Alert" which will register a color change when the ammonia in the tank is in the toxic form, and ignore the ammonium (non-toxic form). They only cost about $6 at the LFS in my area, and they last a year or more. I have them in all of my tanks so it can alert me to the beginnings of a spike of ammonia that could be harmful. It is also a bit of peace of mind knowing 24/7 that the ammonia level is not harmful in the tank (especially useful if you are overstocking some, or raising fry and could overfeed easily trying to get them the food they need often enough).

 

[fisherjean]

Oh I love the idea of those alert disks, thank you.

Ok so at this point one of the brochis splendens is hovering in place off the bottom now. Some of the neons have the same darker dust on them, and at least two have heavy gold dust on them.

I started a dose of API General Cure. I'm guessing that's probably controversial. I'm uh, panicking a bit if you couldn't tell.

Raise the tank temp? Dim the lights or keep them off or what?