how to keep moe fish in a salt tank????

[goliath]

OK this has probably already been talked about many times But i cannot find it on here Please forgive me for asking silly questions But I am new at this However I have seen tanks with NO SUMP with way more fish then the so called limuts of one per 10 gallon etc.
So My silly question is What are the tricks to keeping a very large population of fish for a long period of time and keeping the bio system healthy? Please do not tell me it cant be done because i have sen it However my interest in keeping a salt tank has come after i lost contact with that group. So what is it? What is the trick to keeping many fish without it crashing? Filters? light? Refugium? enlighten me please I can only learn if someone provides the tools and info to learn.
I know of a tank that is 75 gallon with 18 fish in it doing well with no sump. However the guy is not friendly enough for me to ask him how.

 

[exhumed07]

I agree with the question. I have a 30 gallon with no sump or anything and I'd like to put more fish in the tank as well.

 

[ryanm19]

I'm not quite sure. I don't use a sump (wish I did though), but I also don't have a huge bioload. My guess would be that all fish in the tank are very compatible and that water changes are very frequent and the owner frequently tests parameters to make sure everything is stable. Anyone else have other ideas?

 

[Newman]

Yes, select smaller fish to get more in there, either use a sump or a refugium for added system volume (not meaning you can fit 4 clownfish into a 10 gal just because the 10 gal's sump is 40 gallons). added water volume does keep things more stable, within reason. refugium can help with further water polishing. things like regularly changed active carbon, purigen or chemi pure elite, can help the water stay cleaner than normal. these things are used in reef tanks with good results.
Good regular maintenance, and quality water changes ( and a good skimmer if its a larger tank) as mentioned really help. Choose compatible fish always, and no you cant put that second tang into a 55 gallon just because you have a massive sump or fuge or very good skimmer, but what you probably can put if a few smaller gobies or something that isn't going to get cramped with w/e you already have in there. Researching each individual fish is key so that in the end none of them will cramp and interfere with one another.

 

[exhumed07]

what kinda fish would u suggest for say a 30 gallon tank with no sump or anything, all I got is a protien skimmer. my signature tells whats all in the tank, and I'm not super fond of the damsel so I can always get rid of it.

 

[goliath]

OK I have a 120 gallon tank with under gravel filter moving 800g/hour threw it A aqua clear 110 filter a 250 gallon rated Berlin skimmer and a small refugium for macro algae. a few pumps top circulate. a total of nearly 3000 gallons / hour of movement. So Pl3ase give me your best opinions and guesses on how far I can push the limits ( how many fish ) and YES im prepared to work alitle extra on maintenance?

 

[ryanm19]

goliath: i dont have any experience with under gravel filters but i have never seen them in the salt world.
The main thing when picking fish is to make sure what you want is compatible with eachother and that the fish you want will have enough room to swim and do their thing. some fish need more room than others and you just need to research any fish you want to make sure that it can fit in your system. I don't know how exactly you have your tank set up or how much it can handle so start slow with adding livestock to make sure nothing goes wrong. you don't want to buy a bunch of beautiful fish and have something go wrong and within a short time everything is dead.

 

[Newman]

yes go very very slow with the additions coupled with tons of research and comprehension/brainstorming.

 

[TRe]

Go with as big a sump as possible, The best skimmer you can afford, Refugium, Phos Reactor, Weekly Water changes ect... The rule of thumb 1 fish per 10 gallons doesnt apply to saltwater! It all depend on what type of fish your talking about.... Make sure what ever fish you decide on, Add the most aggressive ones last.
Other things to think about would be a denitrator, Or Bio pellets,

 

[TRe]

I can say with the equipment you listed, Your asking for trouble if you go loading up on fish! Aqua clear and under gravel filter arnt for salt water... I suggest doing a little more research

 

[Newman]

I'd have to disagree about the AC110, that sucker can be made into a little fuge (i use it on my 10 gal reef) and be useful. What you surely dont want to do is pack it full of any sort of media, save regularly changed bits of filter floss and maybe some sort of chemical filtration. plus it add some system volume much like a sump, so even a little bit helps smaller nano sized tanks.

 

[Lorna]

I second everything Tre suggests. Loading a saltwater tank with more fish than can be handled by the bilogoical filtration is not only foolhardy but a waste of money and is somewhat cruel to the fish that are doomed to life in a small area and become succeptible to stress related issues and disease. The number of fish that can be added to any tank is mostly dependant on the fish themselves and their habits. Some small fish require a larger area than some large fish whose habit is to remain stationary. A 10 gallon tank can possibly house a ocellaris clown or maybe a couple of very small gobie type fish as in neon gobies etc. Remember that even your cleanup crew adds to the bioload of your tank. All the filtration in the world will not offer the fish room to swim if that is their habit. Do your research well and you will be successful. Plow ahead without giving proper research will doom you to failure.

 

[goliath]

I agree with the question. I have a 30 gallon with no sump or anything and I'd like to put more fish in the tank as well.

Actually a fresh water tank is no problem at all You could crowd your tank so think they can hardly move is you have a ridiculous amount of filtration Try a 5000 gallon ond filter ( exaggerating ) and you can keep probably way more fish in that tank that would still look nice and not like a fish buture shop

 

[goliath]

K I will agree that UGF for under gravel filter is OLD SCHOOL but it dose work I got back into the hobby again using my OLD knowledge I used back when i was 20 ONLY a UGF in a 150 gallon tank and it worked very well But it was fish only/ This day and age MOST people say it is not for salt water. So.... I did more research on modern UGF systems and IF your gonna use a UGF for a reef tank and expect it to last more then a half a year then it MUST be reverse flow ( this is what i read) I am not gonna type the entire mess of literature on here about it but it is very true My nitrate problem was on the rise and i reversed it and it emediatly ( slowly) went away ( the nitrate problem )
Please keep in mind I am now answering my own Q faser a few weeks of BUG EYED computer head ache surfing threw many forums and ask the expert ETC . I am now told that ANY additional filter is a good filter. as long as it dose not house thing to create a nitate factory. The Auaclear was a steal at have price so i put it in there just for the sake of it BUT asking advice first and it is totally acceptable as a additional extra filter Buy the way ... Acuaclear is the OLNY over flow type filter I like Because it actually pushed the water up threw the media not just passes threw it in a over flow fashion It behaves much like a canister filter OK SO THE ULTIMATE ANSWER to the Q is..... MANGROVES and plants The more plant you ca grow in a refugium or the main tank WITHOUT GETTING EATEN. The better However mangroves seem to be the most effective in sucking up nitrates faster then any other method short only from changing ALL of your water. NOW i have only read all of this and now am putting it to practice So far the nitrates are dropping fast and every other condition in the tank has improved very dramatically so far. I have order 12 more mangroves and am going to make this a experiment I am going to get all of them into a growing state ( with leaves) anf then start adding one fish at a time I will watch and test everything every day. If nothing changes I will add one more and so on I will defiantly keep you updated But expect this to be a long term experiment. Others have already proven that this works wonders HEAR SAY TO ME until I confirm this myself. If anyone has any other input or experience doing this Please tell me your opinions or results. I am hoping that eventual i can house 20 fish in my tank Some small some big . and corals on top of it all. YES I'm sure there are many of you out there that are SURE this will not work BUT a couple hundred years ago every buddy was SURE the world was FLAT so I'm hoping this just might be a new or at least Uncovered secret to keep "Moe fish in a salt tank" hahaha

 

[TRe]

Yea, good luck with that! lmao