Stocking...Again.

fishwish34 · Feb 12, 2011

I was almost fully stocked: 2 bolivian rams, 5 zebra danios, and 2 guppies. Then the rams died, and I replaced them with two more guppies. Unfortunately, those two guppies had worms that showed up a few weeks later and eventually killed all four guppies and one zebra danio. So now I need to stock again.
I have a bajillion different ideas at the moment. The tank is a 20 gallon high. I figure I'll get 2 more danios to have a school of 6. I like tetras, so maybe a school of those. Neon tetras are so pretty, as are the glowlights, and I like the black skirt tetras, too. I've never had cories, so those would be cool. The pygmy ones are so CUTE *twirlysmi but I've never seen them in a pet store.
Then I like platies too, but am done having guppies. All mine last 4-5 months, and then die. Would swordtails be too big for my tank? Or what about mollies (black mollies, not the sailfin ones).
I also thought about having a pair of kribs with the zebra danios, but have heard that the kribs get aggressive while breeding. I'm not that concerned about the zebra danios, as they're pretty tough, but I don't want them terrorized.
My last idea was a gourami of some sort. I love dwarf gouramis, but some people have said that they can be mean. So maybe honey gouramis? Would a pearl gourami be too big for my aquarium? One of my books says they get 4.7 inches, but then suggests a smaller tank than mine, so I'm not sure.

Okay, I realize that was a lot of questions, but if you read through that mess I would love some advice. Any other fish suggestions are good, too. Only requirements are that they can coexist with the zebra danios, can fit in my tank (of course), and are relatively hardy. Oh, and the pH of my water is a little high, about 7.4. When I got the bolivian rams, one died after a day. I brought it to the LFS I bought it from, and they tested my water with liquid test kits and said that my pH was very high for those fish at 7.4. So that is something to think about; I tend to just ignore my pH.
Thank you in advance for any advice given!

Fishman1995 · Feb 12, 2011

Kribs would be fine, a nice pair wouldnt be to bad for your tank. so heres what id do (i had a 20 gallon high tank stocked before its tooken down now) 6 Zebra Danios 2 Kribs 5 Black Skirted Tetras and id call it stocked, awesome tank

nanu156 · Feb 12, 2011

Kribs aren't any worse the Goramis. I like them and they are real pretty

OrangeCones · Feb 12, 2011

I realize you did not ask why your fish keep dying on you, and only about stocking...But have you considered that the problems could be caused by poor water conditions? I would suggest exporing that and try to find out why you keep losing fish to diseases before stocking it again.

What are your readings of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? How often and how much water do you change? Do you do gravel vacuums?

fishwish34 · Feb 12, 2011

I haven't tested my ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate recently, but I t it when the first few guppies died of worms (in January) and ammonia and nitrite were 0 and nitrite was 5, or maybe a little higher but definitely no more than ten.
I try to do a 20% water change once a week. Sometimes that goes to two weeks, and once three weeks, but that is NOT often. I gravel vacuum 1/2 the gravel every time I do a water change. In the process of treating the worms I had to drain the tank, treat, drain again, and refill, so the gravel got a lot of vacuuming.
In terms of fish deaths, I have had quite a few. The current zebra danios have been in the tank about a year. I did a fish-in cycle when I started the tank a year and a half ago, so that lost fish. I had a couple otos in my tank in summer and fall, and then they died. I don't know why, maybe starvation? They ate the algae off of the walls and decorations, and then I tried to feed them algae wafers or cucumber, but the zebra danios are pigs and got a lot of it. When I got the two bolivian rams, one died after a day. LFS tested the water, said it was the pH. They used a liquid test kit, and I would assume if something else was very off they would have said something because they don't want to lose money. The other bolivian ram lasted about another month or so, but wouldn't eat anything. I figured it wouldn't eat flakes, and the LFS suggested brine shrimp, so I got these freeze-dried brine shrimp cubes that sent little bits all over the tank...but the ram didn't eat. Then I got bottom-feeder wafers (not algae wafers), and the ram swam right over them without touching them. I'm assuming he died of starvation. This was late November (I think).
When I returned the first dead ram I bought 2 female guppies. There were no more fish deaths...until I started to see red worms sticking out of my fish. I posted my problem on this forum and other forums, and the conclusion was camallanus worms. As the worms take a while to develop, the guppies must have come from the LFS with them. I ordered the medicine a few weeks ago, by which point all the female guppies were dead and 1 of the zebra danios had disappeared. The male guppy died soon after. I treated the tank, and now I'm waiting three weeks until I treat again. Then I should be done with the worms, at least. The surviving four zebra danios seem pretty happy and healthy.
Sorry for the essay, I hope it's enough information.

nanu156 · Feb 12, 2011

yeah start checking your water.

Also pick a new pet store, the rams should have been eating.... that seems odd to me. I wonder if the rams were sick when you got them too.

PH killed your fish? wow that's pretty intense PH.... Ottos are real picky about water quality so you could have had water issues there, but cichlids (the rams) in general like 8 but will tolerate water as low as mid 6's. you would have to have had a pretty serious PH issue for it to be killing off your fish. I bet the petstore sold you some sort of PH buffers right? yeah... scammers...

Test and report we can go from there.

But a test kit. Test your water post your results. we will suggest stocking based on what your results are.

fishwish34 · Feb 13, 2011

I won't be buying from that pet store again anyway, nanu, as the guppies I bought from there brought awful worms into my tank. When I called them about it, they just said, "sure, we have stuff to treat that" which they didn't. Of course they tried to sell me pH stuff, which (being a chicken) I bought and then promptly returned with the cash register lady glaring at me. So, yeah, never going back there.

I had the same thought about my pH: it's only 7.4 or so, which never seemed especially high to me. Rams I think might prefer a slightly lower pH. I don't want to spend all my time trying to get a perfect pH, though.

I do have a liquid test kit, I just dislike testing my water. Pretty silly excuse.

Fishman1995 · Feb 13, 2011

If you have a PetSmart near you, there pretty good with Fish quality, Petco i belive is also a nice place to go. Petsmart has an online website that you can search for the fish before you even go in so you know they have it. Hope it does better for you

Dylandrewsdad · Feb 13, 2011

To find a place to buy fish, first go to the store and look around. Are there a lot of dead fish in the tanks? Are there like 30 Bala Sharks in a 10 gallon? Do not buy from that place. If you go in and the fish look healthy and well cared for ask an emplyee a question you know the answer to. "I have a 10 gallon tank and have an algea issue. Will a common pleco outgrow the tank?" Then ask an open ended question like "How many fish can I put in a 5 gallon?"

aakaakaak · Feb 13, 2011

nanu156 said:

Bolivians, Germans, Apisto and Kribs are river cichlids and prefer the lower PH's to the higher ones. In order of least to most hearty and softness needs, I would generally guess:
Krib
Bolivian
German
Apisto

For your water I'd suggest Bolivians or Kribs, but if you really want a GBR do a reaaaaaaallly good acclimation. Also, I'm not sure putting two rams in a tank with the floorspace of a 10 gallon tank. If it was a 20-long that would be a different story. I'm not even sure that's enough space for one, thinking about it.

nanu156 · Feb 14, 2011

7.4 shouldn't be killing anything that fast. Like yeah rams like it a little lower, african cichlids like it a little higher but both for instance will tolerate 7.4.

". The pH in a Bolivian ram tank should be kept around 6.5 - 7.0, being no lower than 6.0 and no higher than 7.5. Even more important than the level, when it comes to pH, is stability."

That being said, if you could possibly get it down (with chemicals) to 6.5 the chances that it will stay an even 6.5 and not fluctuate; not real likely. What i have found through the years is that the less i screw with my tank (chemically) the better everyone does, ammonia tabs, ph stuff, water hardener etc have always caused more headache then help.

While you weren't doing the BEST set up for the rams what you had going on (assuming you were properly cycled) wasn't going to kill your fish. Well it certainly wasn't an instant death scenario (like maybe a few months later that set up might have started being a killer)

Sorry bout your fish and the jerky LFS

fishwish34 · Feb 18, 2011

Well, I tested my water. Here are the results:
Ammonia--0
Nitrites--.25
Nitrates--10
pH (I used the high range test)--7.8

So it's higher than I thought.
It seems the tank went through a mini cycle after the initial worm treatment. Last water change was a 100% change 2 weeks ago (yes, I know that was a little too long ago, but I wanted to give my bacteria a chance to recover after the big water changes and gravel vacuuming). Tomorrow I will do a 4 gallon water change (20%).
Thoughts? I attached pictures of the liquid testing, and a picture of the whole tank.

nanu156 · Feb 22, 2011

ummm well don't ever do a 100% change again...

IT will cause you to cycle. I am guessing that you cycled, and the big change dropped the ammonia, redo the ammonia test tomorrow and let me know what it says.

Don't buy any new fish for 2 weeks, if everyone is good and all readings are normal proceed in re-stocking.

Stocking...Again.

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