Tropical Fishtank Advice

[rfyffe]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Rob and I am looking for some advice on tropical Fish as I feel the pet shop advice, shall we say is not the best.

We have had a 54 litre tank setup now for a while must be 11 months or so.

It seems to be pretty healthy, however we cannot seem to stop fish dying every so often. What we have in our tank at the minute is:

6 Glowlights
4 Neons
2 Penguins
Dalmation Molly
Silver Molly
1 Guppy

Our tank is well planted with 5 live plants and also we have plenty of hiding places such as a cave and pot.

We seem to have a major problem with keeping Siamese fighting fish. In total we have had 4 now and the first three died within one day and the most recent (Today) within 3 days.

Other fish that we have that died our:

1 swordtail
1 Guppy
1 Platy

These were all very lively and showed no signs of sickness, they just seemed to die!

However our Dalmation molly who is our most liveliest fish is very quiet not eating today.

We do a 25% water change once every week and add water conditioner so we are looking for some advice as to what we are doing wrong.

We have had the water tested a while back and it was fine but just to be sure we are going to get it tested tomorrow.

We appreciate any advice anyone can give.

Thanks
Robert & Emma

 

[ryanoh]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

Judging from how long your tank has been set up I'd say its probably cycled by now, but you can you readings for ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites? This might help answer some questions about what's going on.

As far as bettas dying, how deep is your tank? At a certain depth, which someone else might want to answer since I'm not 100% on this, bettas will start to have problems.

 

[rfyffe]

Quick update our dalmatian molly has just died! I had a good look at him and there was no visible sickness signs on him.

I am going tomorrow to get the levels tested. I will post them once I get them.

Should I be adding Salt to the aquarium?

Also our tank temp is 28 c is this to high?

Thanks
Robert

 

[IThinkTherefore]

25-26 degrees Celsius is more ideal.

Salt shouldn't be necessary, although it won't hurt your fish.

When you do water changes, do you wash out or change your filter media?



Edit: Also, I've only heard of the "betta don't like deep tanks" thing from one source, not backed up by any research. Whatever the problem is, it is almost definitely not that.

 

[rfyffe]

Ok,

Think I might change it to that temperature.

When I do a water change I rinse the filter sponge in the water I have removed from the tank. I never have changed the filter sponge, should I?

Thanks
Robert

 

[nanu156]

fifty four litres is like fifteen gallons correct?

your issue may be your stocking

new fish keepers should stick to the rule of one inch of fish per us gallon

my math says you are somewhere between twenty three to twenty five inches per gallon

betas don't generally do real well in community aquariums

 

[IThinkTherefore]

Ok,

Think I might change it to that temperature.

When I do a water change I rinse the filter sponge in the water I have removed from the tank. I never have changed the filter sponge, should I?

Thanks
Robert

That sounds absolutely perfect! You have a well-stocked tank and take excellent care of it.

(Nanu, the numbers check out in aqadvisor, they aren't overstocked)

It seems to me that you aren't doing anything wrong. The thing about store-bought fish is that you never know how old they are, or what problems they may have had in the past. Four fish losses in eleven months is not bad at all!

Higher temperatures are known to cause fish to have a slightly shorter lifespan, which may have contributed a little bit.

The betta were probably nipped or simply overwhelmed by the many active fish in the tank - they aren't recommended for tanks with more than one schooling group.

My advise is to keep up the good work

 

[ryanoh]

Taking some water somewhere and getting it tested is a good thing, but an even better thing would be to buy your own liquid test kit. You can get more accurate readings that way.

 

[nanu156]

so this tank is just under fifteen usg i ran the numbers with a fifteen gallon tank and a whisper twenty

these are my readings with his stock it isnt a horrible mess but since he is concerned abotu fish deal it is something to think about

honestly though with fish purchased at an lfs and tropical comunity tanks a fish death every two to three months is pretty common and not something to be overly concerned about i would invest in a kit for ammonia and nitrates if you dont get the full kit generally you can tell enough from the two tests (ammonia means something huge is wrong like a dead fish in the water or an incomplete cycle nirtATES mean the tank needs a cleaning)



# Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Guppy, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
# Warning: Guppy is not recommended to be with Betta [Male] - male betta may attack a male guppy by mistake thinking he is another male betta.
# Warning: Swordtail [Female] is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 4 inches.
# Warning: Swordtail [Female] is not recommended to be with Molly due to interbreeding possibilities.
# Warning: Swordtail [Female] is not recommended to be with Platy due to interbreeding possibilities.
# Note: Betta [Male] may jump - lids are recommended. They can become stressful under presence of too many shoaling species. Try to keep under 1 shoal if the tank is small. Individual bettas may exhibit varying degrees of aggression and care should be taken that exceptionally aggressive/territorial fish be separated from a community before any damage may occur.
# Warning: Betta [Male] will likely to fin nip Dalmatian Molly.
# Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Dalmatian Molly - further research is highly recommended.
# Warning: Betta [Male] will likely to fin nip Guppy.
# Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Guppy - further research is highly recommended.
# Warning: At least 5 x Neon Tetra are recommended in a group.


Recommended temperature range: 24 - 24 C. [Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 7 - 7.5.
Recommended hardness range: 11 - 15 dH.


Warning: You NEED to add more aquarium filtration capacity!!!

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 49%.Help on Filtration capacity
Recommended water change schedule: 51% per week. (You might want to split this water change schedule to two separate 30% per week)
Your aquarium stocking level is 118%

 

[IThinkTherefore]

Don't mean to disagree, but with their current stocklist:


6 Glowlights
4 Neons
2 Penguins
Silver Molly
1 Guppy


The tank is only 95% stocked. I just wouldn't recommend adding any more fish at the moment, and +1 to ryanoh about the test kit

 

[nanu156]

oh yeah i was going off previous stock

nature has a way of balancing out your stocking order if its off lol

honestly it wasn't a horrible stocking order but when someone says hey i have been keeping fish for a few months and they die my gut reaction is you probably have too many fish and feed them too much lol

 

[aakaakaak]

Lol, MARCY! <3<3<3
I love the aqadvisor cut and paste.

One thing on it: Mollys and platys do not interbreed. Mollys and guppies do. They make mules or deformed muppies/gollies.

Yes, I have written in to aqadvisor to get this fixed, but they haven't updated in ages.

Your tank should be fine, but DO NOT shove another betta in there.

Store bought and bred mollies, guppies, platys and swordtails have horrible lifespans. They're bred to make a crapload of babies and die, so you can buy more. Sometimes you can get some winners though.

 

[Shroomerz420]

As far as bettas dying, how deep is your tank? At a certain depth, which someone else might want to answer since I'm not 100% on this, bettas will start to have problems.

I'm not to sure about that. I know they don't like strong water current, but other than that they are pretty undemanding fish. I know they originated in rice patties but still. If given the chance would you prefer an apartment with 10FT ceilings or one with a 2 FT ceiling? LOL. As long as you have something for them to rest on at the water surface, all is good. Something like a "Philodendron Vine" is best. It will serve two purposes. 1 it will give him a resting spot, and 2 it will create a dead spot in the area you placed the vine, which will create a "safe zone" with minimal water current. It has worked great for me.

If anything I feel better keeping him in my 55 gallon versus and small mason jar. Regardless of what anyone else says. *twirlysmi

 

[ryanoh]

I'm not to sure about that. I know they don't like strong water current, but other than that they are pretty undemanding fish. I know they originated in rice patties but still. If given the chance would you prefer an apartment with 10FT ceilings or one with a 2 FT ceiling? LOL. As long as you have something for them to rest on at the water surface, all is good. Something like a "Philodendron Vine" is best. It will serve two purposes. 1 it will give him a resting spot, and 2 it will create a dead spot in the area you placed the vine, which will create a "safe zone" with minimal water current. It has worked great for me.

If anything I feel better keeping him in my 55 gallon versus and small mason jar. Regardless of what anyone else says. *twirlysmi

That's true that I'd rather have a 10 foot ceiling than a 2 foot ceiling, but my body isn't designed to only be under so much air pressure the way a bettas body is only designed to be under the weight of so much water.
I want to say that around 10 inches down bettas start to have problems, but I'd have to google around to get some sources.

I agree though, its better to find a tank suited for them than to keep them in a jar.

 

[IThinkTherefore]

Yeah I was curious about this and did some 'net searching, there's nothing but anecdotal evidence, people saying "Bettas don't like deep water!" but nobody sourcing their info.

I'd compare it to the amount of people who insist that bettas don't like having big tanks. They like having room to swim, but they dislike open space. The heavily-finned betta splendens we're familiar with is not a particularly strong swimmer, so heavy currents are bad, and places to rest near the top are nice, but there's no reason to think their swim bladders can't take the pressure.

I see a lot of things like this bit of insanity:

Male bettas prefer small containers about four inches on a side. Depth is even more critical. You can use any size tank from one to fifteen gallons as long as you add no more than four inches of water, and use plastic plants or live lowlight plants like java fern to create a choice of safe four inch "pockets" in the tank. In the wild, male bettas search out small pockets of water where they can be safe and secure from predators such as large predatory fish, birds, and snakes. Often these are simply animal hoof prints, or during the Viet Nam war, small water filled holes left around the detonators of Viet Cong landmines.

Also they are air breathers, so in deeper water, there is always the chance they could run out of air before reaching the surface to breath. Putting them in large deep tanks stresses them because they don't know if they can get to their next breath of air, and they are constantly expecting some large predator to scoop them up and swallow them. Shame on those people who hate bettas so much they try to condemn then to a tormented life in an aquarium unnaturally large for this species.

Yeah, betta can survive in tiny bodies of water, but it's not healthy. Plus, there's no way to heat a 4"x4" container!! (not that I'm implying that you guys said that, I think I'm getting a bit off topic. Refocusing!)

If you google search "Thailand rice paddies" and "wild betta habitat" (I didn't use quotes during the search), you'll see that most of the water is two to three feet deep, deeper in some photos, shallower in others, and in some you can't tell

A large stretch of two-foot deep water is a large body of shallow water. They don't always naturally live in areas less than ten inches deep.

 

[nanu156]

even if you would like to refute the evidence that they don't like deep water they don't like other fish active fish stress them out stress can kill a fish pretty fast

can we agree on that?

 

[ryanoh]

Yeah, that's agreeable.

I had a female betta in my community tank, and I came home one day and she was dead. I couldn't really find a reason why, and after some research I came to the conclusion the water was too deep. Honestly, it could have been old age or something of the sort, I really have no idea. I just know it wasn't parameters or anything. You're probably right about depth not mattering though now that you point that out about rice patties.

 

[IThinkTherefore]

Definitely agree about that

That's sad about your female betta. It's hard to know much about our fish's histories, or how they will handle an active tank.

 

[ryanoh]

I'd had her for a while, and there's no telling how long she'd been at Walmart before that, so it could have just been old age. Who knows.