10 gal. implosion

[Mental_Butterfly]

Three days ago (Friday, June 3rd) my 10 gallon, which has been established for about 4 years and is live planted, imploded after a routine water change. Everything in it, from fish to snails, rolled over and died. The contents of the tank were 4 celestial danios, 2 otos, one sparkling gourami, a number of Malaysian trumpet snails, several wendtii crypts, rotala, ludwigia, and java fern. The only things left standing are the ferns. A water test at my LFS on Saturday revealed... Nothing. No ammonia, no high nitrates or nitrites, nada. The only noteworthy thing was that my ph is 8.5, which is a little more alkaline than we usually have but not atypically so because my town uses well-water. It's something which has never caused any of my fish problems in the past.

The guy at my LFS said that he saw no reason why I couldn't attempt putting a few inexpensive fish into the tank to see how things go, so I got a few Espei Rasbora (cute little guys, they are.) and watched and waited. All was well until tonight when, out of concern for the number of decaying snail bodies in the substrate, I did another small water change with a gravel vacuum. Fast forward 3 hours and 2 of the rasboras are belly-up. What could be going on here? I've never had to use a water conditioner in the past because my local water source doesn't use chloramine or many other additives, is it possible something's gotten into our wells with the onset of summer and lawn fertilizer season? Or could my ph indeed be problematic? Any other ideas? I've never had a well established tank simply fall apart like this, let alone do so without good cause. Also of note, I did a water change on my 29 gallon tank on the same day this happened with no ill-effects. Thanks for your advice!

 

[Fishman1995]

For snails to die something is VERY VERY wrong. Unless one of the snails died you didnt know about and he decayed IN the tank. That may have killed your fish with a quick amonia spike fixed by the water change. Other than that thats just weird. id suggest buying a water de-chlorinaotr and trying it more time with a cheap fish. If they die, id do a 100% water change cleaning on your tank.

 

[Thyra]

Personally, I don't see that dechlorinator will do anything for water with no chlorination, but I would call your water company and see if they are aware of any change. Just because your town is on well water doesn't mean they aren't adding chemicals of some type and maybe they recently changed their methods. They must be required to test their water for any contaminates.

 

[OrangeCones]

Three days ago (Friday, June 3rd) my 10 gallon, which has been established for about 4 years and is live planted, imploded after a routine water change.

How much new water did you add? When was the prior water change on the 10 gallon tank?

Also of note, I did a water change on my 29 gallon tank on the same day this happened with no ill-effects.

Is your 29 gallon tank also planted? How much new water did the 29 gallon get? When was the prior water change done on the 29 gallon?

The fact that you have two tanks, both given water changes on the same day, I'd lean toward it wasn't the new water being contaminated.

 

[Thyra]

You are right, OC, I didn't read far enough I guess and see the part about the 29 g tank. Certainly is strange that is killed the plants, too.

 

[Mental_Butterfly]

For the apocalypse-inducing change on the 10 gallon I did about 50 %, my usual pattern is to do 25% changes three weeks in a row and then to do a 50 on the fourth week since I have a lot of snails adding to the bioload. The second change, which killed two of the new rasboras, was less than 25%, maybe 3 gallons total.

On the 29 gallon (which is also planted), I did a 25% change. Changes on both tanks were done in succession on the same day.

On the upside, it is looking like the crypts were not killed, they just melted quickly and are already starting to send up new leaves again. The rotala and ludwigia are a loss, though.

 

[OrangeCones]

On the upside, it is looking like the crypts were not killed, they just melted quickly and are already starting to send up new leaves again. The rotala and ludwigia are a loss, though.

My 'guess' would be a large swing in pH. All of the plants you mentioned that are either a loss or melted and may return are somewhat sensitive to swings in pH. Ferns (and other 'stiffer' type plants) are more resilient. A large swing may have also affected the fish adversely.

I've kept multiple tanks for years and my plants/fish are kept in soft water. I use RO water to reduce the hardness due to my tab water being very hard. I have to be very careful when doing large water changes.

Aquarium water naturally gets more acidic as it ages. Skipping a water change or two, doing less than normal, or a higher bio load could have caused it to dip lower than normal, and the large water change would bounce it back up high quickly. I would recommend checking the pH before the next water change and then checking it again 24 hours after the water change.

 

[jakester334]

I might have a suggestion. How do you do your water changes? Do you wait a day and prep the water before adding it in( getting it to the right temp etc....) If not the fish could of died from rapid decrease or increase in water temp. Just throwing an idea out there .

 

[Mental_Butterfly]

As I'm looking at the tank I'm starting to lean toward the ph swing idea as well. I've heard that water tends to stay more acidic closer to the gravel because of all the cycling going on down there; I let the algae grow on the back of my tanks and on the 10 gallon all the algae about 3 inches above the gravel line has withered while anything below that 3 inch line is still going strong. I'm kind of thinking I should stop trusting my local water system and invest in a good ph test kit.

What are the safest ways to adjust ph if necessary? It's not likely I'll be able to invest in a full size RO system any time soon, it would be nice if there was something like a Brita-style filter for aquariums or something. Otherwise I suppose I could just add another hunk of driftwood.

Finally, should I lay off of changing the water for a week even though there are so many deceased snails threatening havoc on my system? I don't want to stress the new fish with more ph swings, but I also don't want to accidentally give them ammonia poisoning, either!

 

[Mental_Butterfly]

That was one of the first things that ocurred to me, but I checked the temperature and it was still at its usual 74 degrees. It's a good thought, though!

 

[lauraf]

If it was a pH swing, then I'd still do water changes, but small amounts daily - like 10% - it will result in a gradual adjustment of the pH but help keep down any ammonia from dead snails. I wouldn't worry about trying to change your pH just yet - and the issue isn't so much that your well water is too high as that your tank water may have dipped too low . . . . I'd get that pH test and monitor both your well water and tank water . . . . And actually if your tank pH is really really low then the rise in pH can release additional ammonium or something like that so you might want to monitor ammonia levels too . . . .

 

[Mental_Butterfly]

If it was a pH swing, then I'd still do water changes, but small amounts daily - like 10% - it will result in a gradual adjustment of the pH but help keep down any ammonia from dead snails. I wouldn't worry about trying to change your pH just yet - and the issue isn't so much that your well water is too high as that your tank water may have dipped too low . . . . I'd get that pH test and monitor both your well water and tank water . . . . And actually if your tank pH is really really low then the rise in pH can release additional ammonium or something like that so you might want to monitor ammonia levels too . . . .

10 % sounds good to me, I'll try it and see how things go. I did get a Ph test kit, but unfortunately all the kits I could find only test up to levels of 7.8 or so which won't exactly be helpful when my water is almost always above 8.0. The ph for both my 10 gallon and 29 gallon is apparently far, far over the 7.8 mark, since a single drop of test solution colored the water samples deep blue. I also now have an ammonia kit as well, so far it's not indicating any spikes (yay!). I did find a local shop that sells RO water by the gallon, I'm not sure yet at what price but if it's reasonably affordable do you think it would be worthwhile for me to slowly start adding in that water once the tank restabilizes?

 

[riseabovethesun]

You can purchase RO from fish stores as well as going to the grocery store and filling up a 5gal jug at their water vending machines -- it's the same process pretty much.

I think the safest way to adjust pH is with natural objects (driftwood, crushed coral), in general you should not worry about the pH typically small gradual changes may occur that fish can adjust to, but some people decide that if their pH reaches such and such number to buy chemicals to put it "back" to where it needs to be which does more harm than good.

I have a 40gal planted tank, that goes 3-4 weeks without water changes because it's so heavily planted that it isn't necessary. I don't know how heavily planted yours is, or if you only have one of each of those species -- but in my opinion I think maybe wait a little longer between water changes and see how that goes.

 

[Mental_Butterfly]

I think the safest way to adjust pH is with natural objects (driftwood, crushed coral), in general you should not worry about the pH typically small gradual changes may occur that fish can adjust to, but some people decide that if their pH reaches such and such number to buy chemicals to put it "back" to where it needs to be which does more harm than good.

I have a 40gal planted tank, that goes 3-4 weeks without water changes because it's so heavily planted that it isn't necessary. I don't know how heavily planted yours is, or if you only have one of each of those species -- but in my opinion I think maybe wait a little longer between water changes and see how that goes.

Waiting sounds like much less work and therefore a very appealing idea, my tanks aren't heavily planted enough yet to allow long breaks between water changes but I'd like to get them there someday. I certainly don't like the idea of the chemical route, too much room for disaster and too much money wasted on ineffective treatments. (I think it was someone on this forum I read who said 'Ph is to fish as humidity is to people: The wrong level is uncomfortable, but probably not inherently deadly.') Really I'm just looking for a way to prevent future accidental ph swings, regardless of where my tanks eventually stabilize. For now though I'm just going to let the system recuperate at its own pace and maybe in a couple months give some thought to making small adjustments if they seem necessary - like if it's still at 8.5 in September even with new driftwood.

 

[Orion]

what is the hardness of your water? I dont remember off hand if its kh or gh that really matters, but if its high enough then you wont be able to adjust it down to any account. Lowering the ph is much more difficult than raising it. The only way to really lower it is to use RO water. If it were me though,I would just give the tank a good cleaning, possibly change substrate due to the snails, and try agian with the small water changes to keep it stable.

 

[Mental_Butterfly]

what is the hardness of your water? I dont remember off hand if its kh or gh that really matters, but if its high enough then you wont be able to adjust it down to any account. Lowering the ph is much more difficult than raising it. The only way to really lower it is to use RO water. If it were me though,I would just give the tank a good cleaning, possibly change substrate due to the snails, and try agian with the small water changes to keep it stable.

My Ph was 8.5, which is a little high for my area but not much - we're usually around 8.0. I don't know about the Kh, but it only takes about three weeks for us to go through a Brita filter cartridge and we have a limestone aquifer for a water source so I'm guessing it's really high. I'm actually in the process of upgrading this tank to a (hopefully more stable) 30 gallon as we speak, the new one is set up and cycling, and I think I want to try to start shifting my tanks to RO water over time - slowly, since everything I have is accustomed to more alkaline water.

 

[MdngtRain]

Itoo recently had an established tank fire off on me after a water change. My guess is the ph spike that happened in my local water system that I just didn't notice. The tank got a much larger water change then the others because the goldfish in it were making a ridiculous mess. All the of my tanks had spikes, it just ended up with the goldfish getting the worst of it.
Good luck with getting things balanced and going again. Sorry for your losses.