Ammonia absorbers... Crap or not crap?

[FishDad]

I posted this in a previous thread but it is off topic so I started a new one. To those who are familiar with my tank I'm still seeing flashing. Ammonia came in at .25. So I am currently doing another water change, 50 percent. Second 50 percent in 24 hours. I'm really surprised it rises so fast. I watch the food very closely, none from what I can tell goes to waste. Obviously my bacteria has been depleted.

So here's a question for you guys...

In an attempt to alleviate the ammonia stress and my own back I purchased Aquaclear ammonia absorbing inserts for my filter, looks like a bag of rocks. I have two of them in right now and I'm beginning to feel bamboozled. If they were doing anything I shouldn't be doing two 50 percent changes in 24 hours. So any experience with these things? What do you think? Crap or not crap?

 

[FishDad]

KcMopar, if you read this, in a previous thread you mentioned that you use bio media. I saw that in the pet store when I purchased my "bags of rocks", I almost bought them but a clerk steered me in the other direction. Would you recommend bio media for my situation and are they different then the ammonia absorbing "rocks"?

 

[KcMopar]

I have tried the ammonia absorbing stuff in the past in hopes to take care of some ammonia but, to no avail. I didn't fell it worked any better or faster. (it really looks like porous media to encourage beneficial bacteria growth which seems to work only as fast as nature wants to anyway)
The bio media will provide more space to grow your beneficial bacteria to help you nitrogen cycle start and stay strong. Bio media is nice if you get the ceramic type or plastic balls and put them in a fine mesh bag they sell at many locals. I like the plastic balls, I have two different areas they are in. About once to every other month I will lightly rinse one then do the other on the next time. With having bio media you do not have to worry about changing filters and starting a mini cycle because you always have a good bacteria growth site. This way you can clean the glass, gravel, decor, and filters with out wiping out the BB. I am not talking about a total spit shine of the tank of coarse as this might start a tiny cycle for a couple days while the bio media reproduced enough BB to handle the bio load again. If you have a canister like the Filstar they have some of different sizes which have different amount of trays or racks to put bio media in. I have the one with three racks, in the bottom I have a course media which is a stack of 3 pads to catch the big particles and in the other two I have my bio balls which are made into two layers in each rack. I have them connected (they snap together like legos) to form a square to fit into the racks. This way of maintaining BB has worked for me well for years. I also have a bio wheel (marineland emperor 400) in each tank as well as they bio wheels virtually never need replacement. I have had one wheel for more then 10 years and only replaced the bushing is rides on a couple times. Anyway this is how I deal with it and it works for me, I am sure others have their way and might share theirs as well. It does not matter what way you use as long as it fits and works with your maintenance schedule.
As for know keep up the WC's until the cycle is done, also what is your nitrite and nitrate readings?

 

[FishDad]

Good input, thank you. I've already returned my ammonia rocks as I like to call them. I'm definitely going to try bio media. As for the nitrite and nitrate levels, I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't been testing for those. I only have an ammonia tester. My logic has been that since I am detecting ammonia, and I'm doing water changes every day (another 50% today) that for right now the nitrate/nitrite wouldn't be an issue...

Not proud of this but test kits are pricey. I may actually get one tomorrow though. I have been using aquarium salt since I started the tank and am rethinking that do to some research on the issue. So I have a big jug of unopened salt that I can exchange for a test kit.

So hopefully the issue is just a cycle thing. I'm still seeing flashing and the water seems to clock at .25 pretty regularly. I do have a sneaking suspicion about the salt causing some issues, but I'm not too knowledgeable on the pro's and cons of its use. I do know for certain that it is wreaking havoc on my plants.

 

[lauraf]

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia? Some tap water contains chloramine, which is non-toxic but will register an ammonia reading.

 

[FishDad]

I did, it doesn't detect anything. Today's reading came in a little lower than .25 so hopefully that bacteria is making some headway...

 

[OrangeCones]

Chloramine is harmful to fish. It contains chlorine AND ammonia. If you dechlorinator only removes chlorine, it will leave behind ammonia. If your dechloriniator removes chlorine AND binds ammonia (such as Prime), it will still show as ammonia on your test kits but is in a bound form that is not harmful to your fish. This binding will last a few days and allows your biofilter time to process it.

 

[FishDad]

Thanks OC, I've been using Top Fin which claims to remove chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals. That sounds pretty comprehensive to me. The real issue right now is the flashing, why is it happening? The only thing I know for certain is that my tank is going through a mini cycle. You guys have a lot more experience with this stuff than I do, so in your opinion(s) do you think ammonia at or below .25 would cause flashing even with daily 50% water changes? Or do I need to look a other factors such as parasites and things of that nature? Aside from the flashing the fish appear healthy. The only noticeable possible symptom is in my jewel cichlid. His belly appears swollen and I think his movement has decreased. I've read that this can be constipation, but with the flashing I'm worried it could be some sort of sickness in the tank.

 

[KcMopar]

Thats is why I was asking if you had any nitrate readings. I you have nitrate reading over 10PPM its usually safe to assume its safe if you have zero nitrite with just a touch of ammonia reading due to the tap water conditioner. Do you have a pic of your fish? Does your ammonia go up if you skip water changes? Many variables here without know the other test results. To be sure its best to keep up a daily WC of about 20-40% if its still cycling.

 

[OrangeCones]

Thanks OC, I've been using Top Fin which claims to remove chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals. That sounds pretty comprehensive to me.

Top Fin technically 'removes' chloramine by breaking the bind that holds chlorine and ammonia, then removing the chlorine. This process leaves behind ammonia.

I would recommend getting a dechloriniator that 'binds' ammonia as part of the process. This is a temporary hold, changing ammonia to ammonium (changing NH3 to NH4), which is less toxic to fish, and gives your biological filter (the good bacteria) time to catch up. The good bacteria can consume NH3 and NH4.

This 'ad' from Seachem's Prime explains it better. Other brands can do this too (just look for 'binds ammonia' or 'detoxifies ammonia' on the label) :

Seachem. Prime

You guys have a lot more experience with this stuff than I do, so in your opinion(s) do you think ammonia at or below .25 would cause flashing even with daily 50% water changes?

If your readings is at 0.25ppm ammonia, then you are doing a water change and your dechlor is leaving behind even MORE ammonia, yes, flashing would be expected.

 

[FishDad]

I haven't had time to get one yet. My computer crashed today so between that, two kids, a wife and now three fish tanks... I'm spread thin. Anyway Kc today is the first day in about five days that I haven't done a water change and it was a bit lower than the day before. So I think I may wait on the wc to see what the reading is tomorrow. So before, yes it would go up but it seems that has changed now, but I can't be sure until at least tonight. I just tried to take a photo of the jewel and my batteries are dead. I'll get one posted soon though. He has had a swollen look for a while, perhaps before I owned him and I never noticed. But he definitely is lacking that bullet-like shape of africans.

 

[FishDad]

Thanks again OC I didn't know that. I do have Ammo Lock which I believe does the same think, but I haven't used it yet. Would I get the same effect or are you specifically recommending a dechlorinator and binder all in one?

 

[OrangeCones]

An 'all-in-one' is usually cheaper in the long run, but you can certainly use what you have onhand. What is the Ammo Lock called exactly. I don't use that product so am not familar with it. I see several versions for sale.

 

[KcMopar]

I haven't had time to get one yet. My computer crashed today so between that, two kids, a wife and now three fish tanks... I'm spread thin. Anyway Kc today is the first day in about five days that I haven't done a water change and it was a bit lower than the day before. So I think I may wait on the wc to see what the reading is tomorrow. So before, yes it would go up but it seems that has changed now, but I can't be sure until at least tonight. I just tried to take a photo of the jewel and my batteries are dead. I'll get one posted soon though. He has had a swollen look for a while, perhaps before I owned him and I never noticed. But he definitely is lacking that bullet-like shape of africans.

Jewels do not have the exact same body as most Africans. The stomach to anus area is longer before it curves up to the tail.

 

[FishDad]

Interesting. Maybe his body shape just highlights the fact that he is slightly over weight. I think he's fine, I'm just on hyper alert with this flashing thing going on. I just tested the ammonia and it was definitely lower than it has usually been after about 24 hours since a water change. But I did notice my red zebra violently flashing over and over again. He also seems to go into fits where he waves his head back and fourth. Pretty disturbing behavior. So I did another 50% just in case the nitrites/nitrates were on the rise with the ammonia on the down slide. The other fish flash once and a while, maybe once or twice in a five minute span. But the zebra is pretty consistent. I will try to get a nitrate/nitrite tester to give you those readings Kc.

Oh by the way OC, ammo lock is made by API and specifically calls it self an ammonia detoxifier. The finer print does say that it only keeps the ammonia "locked up" for a period of time.

Thanks for all the help guys. Hopefully I can stop the flashing soon.

 

[KcMopar]

Sometimes the Africans mating dance is mistaken as flashing or rubbing itself on rocks.

 

[FishDad]

That's funny. Good to know. I finally bought a tester for other readings. I just did a test a few minutes ago. My last water change was last night...

Nitrate - almost 0
Nitrite - 0
Hardness - 75
Alkalinity - 300
PH - 7.5

What do you think KC?

 

[KcMopar]

I would give it a few days and see if the nitrate goes up, if it goes up and ammonia is zero-ish and nitrite is zero you can call it cycled. It might show a bit of ammonia for a few days because of the tap water conditioner.

 

[FishDad]

Sounds good to me. I'll let you know how it goes.