Tropical Fish Questions

[PetCrazyy919]

Hi!
I am starting a tank of tropical fish soon, and I had just a few questions. I've had fish before, but only goldfish and 1 Betta, so I'm not experienced with community tanks.
First, how many fish can I put in a 37 gallon tank? I've adopted the rule of 1 gallon of water per inch of fish and have calculated the maximum size of the fish I want. I came up with:
-3 upside-down catfish (max 4 in)
-1 Silver Hatchetfish (max 3 in)
-2 Dwarf Gourami (max 2 in)
-5 Neon Tetras (max 2 in)
-3 Mystery Snails (max 2 in)
All told this comes to 35 inches.
Are these too many fish for a 37 gallon?
Secondly, how often/how much should I feed them? Some of these fish are vegetarians, some are omnivores, and some are carnivores. I was thinking about purchasing a 'Freshwater Multipack' (frozen food mix), some frozen beef heart, some algae wafers, and some flakes. How often should I feed these foods?
Thank you so much for your help!

 

[CAPSLOCK]

That's a pretty good list - keep in mind that "1 inch per gallon" is a pretty rough guideline. But you have a compatible looking list and have all the "levels" of the tank occupied pretty evenly.

Most catfish are scavengers, so once those guys get large it is possible they would eat a tetra that is ill / elderly and easy prey. But a healthy tetra should be fine with them long term. I had a pair of upside-down catfish, one got to about 6" the other stayed at 4". Since you don't have them yet, if you have a good store near you or one that can special order, I highly recommend hoplo catfish (also called armored catfish sometimes). These guys are related to the commonly seen cory cats but get bigger (4-5") and are very peaceful with a nice personality - not shy at all. I had 3-4 of these guys and just loved them.

Ideally, do a male / female pair of dwarf gourami as sometimes the males get feisty with each other. Dwarf gouramis are less aggressive than the larger ones even with two males though. The females are easy to tell apart - they are mostly gray whereas the males are the more attractive colors. Some stores don't carry the females though (I believe Petsmart normally only carries males).

The hatchets I believe like to be in groups - maybe you could do 2-3 more of them. These guys are jumpers so make sure you've got a good lid.

I've never in my life seen a 2" neon tetra. I've only seen them hit 1". Maybe in the wild they get bigger, but for captive purposes I think 1" is a more realistic estimate.

You also don't need to count snails towards the bioload. If you get multiple snails, it is likely that they will breed and you will end up with many. Not overfeeding will help with this, and also I'm not positive but I suspect that the catfish might munch baby snails so they may take care of that for you.

I've never done frozen beef heart or anything similar with the fish - you don't have any fish that I would be concerned with trying to feed that to. Flakes and the frozen food mix would be a good staple diet, feeding once a day is usually fine. Skipping a day here and there doesn't hurt anything. I like the sinking shrimp pellets with the catfish, since they don't often come up to feed at the surface the pellets get more down to their level. The other fish will peck at the pellets too. Algae wafers - you can use as often as necessary but as long as you have other algae in your tank, they are more of a supplemental item with that fish selection.

Make sure to get the tank cycled before adding fish. Since you currently have the betta and the goldfish, you can use the used filter media from either of them to jump start the cycle with their established bacteria so it'll be pretty quick.

 

[FreshyFresh]

PC, how do you like that 37gal? I went back/forth between the 29/37 and ultimately settled on the 29. I'm kind of glad I did only because my 29 is an arm soaker any time you need to reach down in there. You might as well put a suit on for the 37! LOL.

Joel

 

[PetCrazyy919]

That's a pretty good list - keep in mind that "1 inch per gallon" is a pretty rough guideline. But you have a compatible looking list and have all the "levels" of the tank occupied pretty evenly.

Most catfish are scavengers, so once those guys get large it is possible they would eat a tetra that is ill / elderly and easy prey. But a healthy tetra should be fine with them long term. I had a pair of upside-down catfish, one got to about 6" the other stayed at 4". Since you don't have them yet, if you have a good store near you or one that can special order, I highly recommend hoplo catfish (also called armored catfish sometimes). These guys are related to the commonly seen cory cats but get bigger (4-5") and are very peaceful with a nice personality - not shy at all. I had 3-4 of these guys and just loved them.

Ideally, do a male / female pair of dwarf gourami as sometimes the males get feisty with each other. Dwarf gouramis are less aggressive than the larger ones even with two males though. The females are easy to tell apart - they are mostly gray whereas the males are the more attractive colors. Some stores don't carry the females though (I believe Petsmart normally only carries males).

The hatchets I believe like to be in groups - maybe you could do 2-3 more of them. These guys are jumpers so make sure you've got a good lid.

I've never in my life seen a 2" neon tetra. I've only seen them hit 1". Maybe in the wild they get bigger, but for captive purposes I think 1" is a more realistic estimate.

You also don't need to count snails towards the bioload. If you get multiple snails, it is likely that they will breed and you will end up with many. Not overfeeding will help with this, and also I'm not positive but I suspect that the catfish might munch baby snails so they may take care of that for you.

I've never done frozen beef heart or anything similar with the fish - you don't have any fish that I would be concerned with trying to feed that to. Flakes and the frozen food mix would be a good staple diet, feeding once a day is usually fine. Skipping a day here and there doesn't hurt anything. I like the sinking shrimp pellets with the catfish, since they don't often come up to feed at the surface the pellets get more down to their level. The other fish will peck at the pellets too. Algae wafers - you can use as often as necessary but as long as you have other algae in your tank, they are more of a supplemental item with that fish selection.

Make sure to get the tank cycled before adding fish. Since you currently have the betta and the goldfish, you can use the used filter media from either of them to jump start the cycle with their established bacteria so it'll be pretty quick.

Thank you for that helpful information!!
It's good to know I don't have to count snail length. Maybe then I'll get a couple more hatchetfish. And I've never seen a 2" Neon Tetra either--but PetSmart says they get that big which I don't believe, LOL.
What do you think about '24-hour cycling' products? For example, Dr Foster and Smith's has one. It's pretty expensive, and do you think it would actually be effective?

 

[PetCrazyy919]

PC, how do you like that 37gal? I went back/forth between the 29/37 and ultimately settled on the 29. I'm kind of glad I did only because my 29 is an arm soaker any time you need to reach down in there. You might as well put a suit on for the 37! LOL.

Joel

Well, I actually don't have the tank yet LOL...but I'll let you know when I do. I'm planning on picking the tank up in a week or two.

 

[PetCrazyy919]

All right...one more question. Please forgive me if this sounds stupid!
I'm planning on doing a pretty heavily planted tank. I have Ammonia Remover, pH up & pH down, & EasyBalance (which nullifies pH, Nitrite & Nitrate--and it's worked really well for me in the past). Do you think that I could start the tank and add fish the day after if I keep testing the water and making sure nothing's in the danger zone?

 

[CAPSLOCK]

Technically you *can* but few would recommend it normally - the problem is that to reduce ammonia effectively, you need to do large water changes to physically remove it. And if you remove the ammonia via the ammonia remover, it is difficult to keep track of because it still shows up on tests (ammonia remover makes it into a non-toxic form, which still shows up on tests), plus it makes it harder to actually cycle the tank because the bacteria aren't getting the ammonia they need, so they aren't growing as readily.

That being said, I do think if you move over a filter cartridge / filter media from the goldfish in the 10g, you will effectively move a large portion of bacteria and have a very short cycle - you may be ready for fish in a few days that way doing a fishless cycle. If you wanted to stock it up slowly (adding a few fish at a time), you could get the tank running and the temp situated, then add the goldfish filter media and 2-3 small fish. I have to imagine that if you have enough bacteria for a 6" goldfish, that would handle 2-3 small fish. And should you need to, you can add ammonia remover but only if necessary (so you don't starve out the bacteria). Then you could add another 2-3 fish every week or two, as long as the ammonia and nitrite levels are staying at 0. I would wait a little on the neons since they are not always that hardy in a new tank, although on the other hand they will give you a good indication if you have ammonia because their colors will fade - if you don't fix it shortly after that, they will give you a better indication when they die.

I wouldn't fiddle with pH adjustment, it's better and more consistent for the fish to adjust to the water you have rather than swinging it around trying to hit a specific number.

Freshy- I had a 37g for many years (my Mom still has it with the pair of angels) and also a 45g tall (36"x12"x24") and although they both looked cool, they were a royal pain to work in. Wet almost up to the armpits if you had to reach for the bottom, and had to stand on a chair to really work down there. It's also more difficult to find plants to reach up towards the top of the 24" height without being too big for the tank - or longer to wait for the plants to grow in in the case of live plants. I would personally not buy a tall tank like that again, especially not a tall thin tank like that (both mine were used).

 

[PetCrazyy919]

Thank you so much CAPSLOCK!
I'm afraid I'm still a little foggy on cycling...what exactly do you mean by filter media? I have and am going to get a hang-on filter by Top Fin (the kind with the carbon filter pad). Does filter media mean the pad? If so, I would think that when you replace the pad the bacteria colony would have to restart.
Is cycling for a different kind of filter? I'm sorry I know so little, but I've done lots of research and haven't seemed to find out what I need.
Thank you for your help!

 

[FreshyFresh]

Freshy- I had a 37g for many years (my Mom still has it with the pair of angels) and also a 45g tall (36"x12"x24") and although they both looked cool, they were a royal pain to work in. Wet almost up to the armpits if you had to reach for the bottom, and had to stand on a chair to really work down there. It's also more difficult to find plants to reach up towards the top of the 24" height without being too big for the tank - or longer to wait for the plants to grow in in the case of live plants. I would personally not buy a tall tank like that again, especially not a tall thin tank like that (both mine were used).

Thanks for the confirmation on that! When I bought my 29gal kit, the 37 kit was only a few more dollars more, but came with a larger filter and heater designed for a 40gal.

The deepness is what pushed me away. I keep soaking my sleeves with the 29 and I'm careful to roll them up. I'd need a robo arm for a 37 and I'm not a tiny dude!

Joel

 

[Thyra]

I have never used any of the 24 hr instant cycling products. The one thing I have noticed over the three years I have been on this forum is many of the people that do try them ask a multitude of questions which to me means either they aren't following the manufacturer's instructions or the instructions with the product aren't adequate or clear. Here is a website that should answer a lot of your questions - be sure to read the reply by Tetra Safe Start.
Q & A With Tetra about Tetra SafeStart | 58116

 

[OrangeCones]

And if you remove the ammonia via the ammonia remover, it is difficult to keep track of because it still shows up on tests (ammonia remover makes it into a non-toxic form, which still shows up on tests), plus it makes it harder to actually cycle the tank because the bacteria aren't getting the ammonia they need, so they aren't growing as readily.

Chemicals that bind ammonia turn it into ammonium. It is able to be utilized by both beneficially bacteria and growing plants, just as easily as ammonia, and does not 'stall' the cycling process.

 

[PetCrazyy919]

Great website, Thyra. Thanks.
OrangeCones, thank you so much. So should I not worry about adding Ammonia Remover to my water?
Thanks everyone for all your help!

 

[OrangeCones]

I'm planning on doing a pretty heavily planted tank.

What do you plan to grow?

You don't need to add anything to remove ammonia unless you overstock the tank. You don't want to use ANYTHING to alter you pH. Large swings in pH will kill fish quickly.

 

[PetCrazyy919]

Well...I'm thinking about planting some Peacock Fern, Frill Plant, and maybe some Moneywort...I was practically just thinking of picking out some plants that looked good at the pet store. Should I choose certain kinds based on the fish I'm getting?

 

[OrangeCones]

Be careful to research plants when you buy them. Selaginella willdenovii (Peacock Fern) is not aquatic. Not sure what plant would be called 'Frill Plant' so don't know if its aquatic or not. Bacopa monnieri (Moneywort) is aquatic but needs medium light and benefits from the addition of CO2 or other carbon source.

You should choose AQUATIC plants that will do well with your light/fertilizer/CO2 setup. Most fish do fine with plants with the exception of aggressive diggers such as cichlids.

 

[lauraf]

I'm afraid I'm still a little foggy on cycling...what exactly do you mean by filter media? I have and am going to get a hang-on filter by Top Fin (the kind with the carbon filter pad). Does filter media mean the pad? If so, I would think that when you replace the pad the bacteria colony would have to restart.
Is cycling for a different kind of filter? I'm sorry I know so little, but I've done lots of research and haven't seemed to find out what I need.

So when people are advising you to use the filter media from an established tank, they mean take the filter pad out of the existing setup and put it in your new tank's filter. You put a new pad in the old filter. Ideally the established tank will have enough beneficial bacteria in the substrate to keep the cycle from crashing; even still, you should test that tank's water parameters afterwards for several days to make sure you haven't caused a mini-cycle - this is more likely to happen if you have an overstocked tank, where ammonia builds up very quickly.
The "cycle" that everyone refers to is the process by which beneficial bacteria, which lives in quantity in your substrate, filter media, and other porous material, consumes (toxic) ammonia from fish waste and other sources. The ammonia is converted into (still-toxic) nitrite, and then eventually into nitrate, which is not harmful at low levels. To prevent too much nitrate from building up, you do water changes.
When you are "cycling" a tank, you are basically growing your colony of beneficial bacteria.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

The filter media is whatever is in your filter - different types use different things (filter cartridge, filter floss, bio balls, sponge). In most of the hang on back filters like those, it is the filter cartridge (whisper filters use a net / batting feeling pouch thing filled with carbon, not positive what other brands use). Or a (clean) sponge that has been sitting in the established tank for a week or two, or a big handful of gravel in a pantyhose or some such. Anything with surface area which bacteria have had a chance to populate on. The filter floss / cartridge / media will have the most and tends to be the easiest to use.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

Chemicals that bind ammonia turn it into ammonium. It is able to be utilized by both beneficially bacteria and growing plants, just as easily as ammonia, and does not 'stall' the cycling process.

Thank you, I didn't know bacteria could still use it.

 

[PetCrazyy919]

Thank you SO much! Very helpful.