Java Moss Wall ?

[Rotaripsnoc]

Tonight my insomnia is really kicking in ... yay ...

Everything I've read seems to indicate that Java Moss will grow in brackish water, however every brackish thread I've read, states only mangrove trees will grow in brackish environments ...

Does anyone here have any experience with Java moss in brackish water ? Did it thrive or die ?

Also our 60 gal thus far does not have a background, while the wall behind it is a neutral green, I would like to hide the various cords \ hoses etc. Providing the java moss our LFS happily included in my last visit grows well, I thought a wall similar to this http://www.caudata.org/forum/attach...3254-java-moss-wall-mesh-setup-pl-mo03-06.jpg would look great. Along with providing a place for shimp to hide from the cichlids, it would hide everything behind the tank, and provide a reasonably attractive backdrop and natural way to remove nitrates from the water as our fish grow.

Has anyone created such a wall, or have any suggestions on doing so ?

 

[FreshyFresh]

Interesting indeed.

I'd love to see what the java moss is growing on/through. Some type of perforated plastic mesh?

I know I'm batting algae enough in my 55g, that left alone, I'd have an algae wall that looks about the same.

 

[Mamajin]

Conspirator,

I've always been under the impression that freshwater plants cannot survive for any length of time in brackish/saltwater environments. I know a lot of people dip their plants in water with salt to kill snails and some parasites, but Im not aware of perm planting them in it.


Hey FreshyFresh

Here's some info on moss walls! There's some nice video tutorials on YouTube should you feel you wanna check those out, too.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

Indeed everything I've read or ever hear states no plant in salty water. However everything I've read recently state most "java" species either tollerate or naturally occur in brackish below 1.005 SG.

Planting Brackish Aquaria - Brackish Forum - Tropical Fish Forums

At any rate I've placed a piece of the Java Moss in my 60 gal which is at 1.003 sg ( was treating for Ich ) a few more water changes and it'll be back to 0 SG.

Might tie it down and take a few pictures to document it's growth. If it does well ( regardless of the water changes ) I'll take a clump and add to my 30 gal brackish, the puffer seems to prefer to hunt his food, and if they have places to hide it will keep him occupied much longer.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

@ FreshyFresh In theory with a large enough plant population shouldn't your algae problem go away due to lack of nutrients ? It'd probably take a lot of other plants to drop the Nitrates that low, in addition to fertilizing the thank though huh ?

 

[FreshyFresh]

@ FreshyFresh In theory with a large enough plant population shouldn't your algae problem go away due to lack of nutrients ? It'd probably take a lot of other plants to drop the Nitrates that low, in addition to fertilizing the thank though huh ?

Yeah, from what I gather, I need to get my ferts and lighting balanced with the plants I have in my 55g. Not heavily planted, but the wisteria and water sprite are quite large and growing, while the anubias and java fern aren't growing much.

Twin tube 48" T5HO fixture with 6500K lamps, lit about 8hrs/day.

Ferts are API liquid CO2 and API leaf zone. Dosing basically per the instructions on the bottle. I've also used API root tabs, but they're basically the same thing as the liquid leaf zone per the ingredients.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

Hmm, I already know my lights are low watt \ gal having some minor issue with brown algae in a sanded tank, I have a large Chinese algae eater ordered hopefully he won't become food for someone else. Also planning on upgrading our lights in a month or two.

I was planning on printing the hoods, and buying the pcb's and pinning \ soldering the leds myself so I can ensure the proper wave length, but I haven't looked into the led's yet, I should probably do that.

I've never really planted a tank before, but now looking back at the last 20 years, I'm not sure why, it's almost as interesting as the fish.

 

[exhumed07]

i have yet needed to clean the glass on my dirted 55. it's been going for 4-5 months now i think. i really think it's due to the christmas moss. it's very thick and lush. i have it on a branch, measured (including the off shoots) at 4 feet int total lenght and it's nearly entirly coverd with a mat about 2-3 inches deep and 4-6 inches across. LOTS of christmas moss. I truely belive it soaks up excess nutrients like a sponge as i turn on the lights at about 9-10am and shut them off around 1-4am, when i get up to when i go to bed. all my other tanks have algea to an extent with same lighting schedual. one 30 gallon has an algae back wall lol, the other 30 gallon has a nice collony of blackbeard and so does my 55 cichlid.

Freshy u got the right idea with the floating plants, I bet they are helping alot compaired to if they were not there at all. but i would look into something like christmas moss or java moss as they seem to remove nutrients much faster. the java fern and anubias are known to be slow growers and don't do much for absorbing alot of nutrients. and as always i suggest going to dirt I have run into fewer problems with dirt then any other form of plant keeping. in fact before dirt i couldn't seem to get plants to live at all. they would just wither and die after a couple weeks.

And rotar LED lighting is a bit more complicated then florecents. i think the system they use to determine LED lighitng is called PAR. it's like the watt per gallon rule. I've personally thought about just getting a few LED to boost the intensity of my lighting just a bit. I have seen jungle val grown in high lighting and it turns this really cool red color and i want to try to get that.

As for the moss wall. one thing i have seen is take cork bark and attach it to the back of the glass and i'm not kidding on this. super glue the java moss to the cork. ot take an interesting piece of driftwood thats flat and attach the java moss to that and then suction cup that to the glass.

 

[FreshyFresh]

I don't have any floating plants in my 55, aside from little pieces of water sprite and wisteria that come off every so often. My plants have all rooted nicely, not including the java fern. That's tied to a shell.

The term PAR applies to any lighting, be it fluorescent, LED or otherwise. From what I understand, it the PAR given off that stimulates photosynthesis in plants.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

It'll probably be a long time before my Java Moss is large enough or abundant enough to break apart and tie down to new stuff, but with any luck it'll happen in a several months.

I'll probably spend the next few weeks and research what I can about LED systems. I have experience in electronics and simple manufacturing not so much with lighting for aquariums

 

[exhumed07]

LED is pretty simple. I would solder the LED in parallel and not in series though. otherwise one goes bad they all go out like christmas lights lol. also make sure they are well sealed away from moisture. i tried LED moon lighting in my tanks. i thought the lead from the LED was nickle. yeah it turns out they are steel. that was 50 bucks down the drain lol.

 

[Mamajin]

Indeed everything I've read or ever hear states no plant in salty water. However everything I've read recently state most "java" species either tollerate or naturally occur in brackish below 1.005 SG.

Planting Brackish Aquaria - Brackish Forum - Tropical Fish Forums

At any rate I've placed a piece of the Java Moss in my 60 gal which is at 1.003 sg ( was treating for Ich ) a few more water changes and it'll be back to 0 SG.

Might tie it down and take a few pictures to document it's growth. If it does well ( regardless of the water changes ) I'll take a clump and add to my 30 gal brackish, the puffer seems to prefer to hunt his food, and if they have places to hide it will keep him occupied much longer.

The link you shared is a very interesting read and I've learned quite a bit... thank you for sharing!

I would absolutely love to see some photographs in a few weeks, if you are willing to share.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

@Exhumed I planned to solder them to a pcb board, I have some copper pcb material, some etching solution, and a few older programmable soc's that I was going to use to create an illusion of clouds moving over the tank so there would be slowly moving bring spots along the length of the tank, along with moon lighting, potentially some different wave length led's that are on a few days a week while the rest of the fixture is on. I had planned once everything is in place, and working, immersing the led \ pcb \ soc's in resin, and placing heat sinks along the length of the fixture, maybe a fan also if needed.

If I can get the layout correct, I thought it would add a lot of depth to my tank, if I eventually have a moss wall, with variable intensity lighting.

@Mamajin I performed a 60 % WC today, moved some of the sand out of the tank, and added the on again / off again bamboo sticks that visit the tank regularly. The little sprig of Moss is easy to overlook currently, but yes I'd be glad to share pictures of growth etc if it's of benefit to anyone

 

[exhumed07]

ok yeah that does sound pretty bad ass lol. also i was planning on embedding LEDs in an epoxy as well. i made several trays out of acrylic and drilled holes into them for the LEDs. i had 2 coper wires layed and tinned. was going to solder the LEDS to those wires. the driver i was going to use was a simple phone charger. but i was going to fill the trays with epoxy to seal everything up. that was the idea at least. never did get around to it though.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

Tank Pic with Java Moss Day 5 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/upnos0ge1jx8gzj/TXbdXOUkfU

 

[exhumed07]

just that tiny little sprig of moss in that second pic? also bamboo normally does not last in a tank. at least i've never heard of it lasting. I have a bunch of christmas moss if u would like some. pm me if u are interested. it's a loose ball about the size of a baseball. that much can go a LONG LONG ways.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

I leave the bamboo in the tank for a week or so at a time ( I removed it when I salted the tank ) usually when I remove it there's 0.25" - 0.5" of new growth on the roots. I left them in a window in full sun in the evenings and they weren't happy with that. Usually I close the hood on the leaves so the bulk of the plant is in the water, but their leaves are free to exchange o2 / co2. But yes everything I've read states that if their leaves are not exposed to air they will perish, I think however a week in \ week out suits them, they are growing healthy roots, and one is putting off a second sprout of leaves at one of the joints, and they've all added a few pairs of leaves on this schedule since March.

Yep, the tiny blurry sprig of moss, I have another just like it in my snail breeder tank. Everything I read, stated it likes fast moving water, and with the I have my return setup, that area gets most of the return flowing past it, as well as the calmer water that churns in with it before going back to the filter.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

Thanks to Exhumed, I've done my first attempt at creating a moss wall I'll post pics in a bit. It's a little sparse, but from what I've read, it should grow out in a week or so, and start spreading in a month give or take some time.

 

[exhumed07]

it took a little over a month to accumulate that amount. and i think u will like the more layered look of the christmas moss. also i personally think it's a better color. can't wait to see what you did with it

 

[Thyra]

It is my understanding that bamboo does not like the sun. It gets very pale. I just have a vase with it in sitting next to my tanks so it just gets room light.