New fish suddenly died - is something wrong?

[PossumCraft]

Hi all, first post because also first fish has said farewell
I'm not sure why - like, totally baffled as to why - and would really appreciate some advice!

So quick background; tank is 240l (55 gallons or something I think) and new. I set it up a week and a half ago, let it sit for 4 days then bought some fish I was told were hardy and good to start cycling with. Said fish are 8 Harlequin Rasbora, these ones.

The tank moves between 25.5 and 26.5 centigrade throughout the day and night, the PH is 7 (or a minute sliver below), nitrate and nitrite are next to non existent and the tester finds 0 ammonia. I put a tapwater conditioner in to neautralise chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals. It was only yesterday I tested all of these, so I don't understand how my fish could up and die today! He was swimming about healthy this morning and even at lunch time, but suddenly I went down at 5PM and he was dead on the bottom of the tank.

They've been in there now for four days. I let the bag float for 20 minutes, then added enough of my tank water to make it 50/50 and let it float for another 20 minutes, then released them into the water, which I how I was told to introduce them.

In terms of bothering them, I did have to make a bit of fuss and mess adding some more gravel to the tank which dirtied the water, but it was all cleared up again within a few hours and the same temperature and levels were consistent afterwards.


So my question is what's the most likely cause for one of them to up and die suddenly like this? Does this happen with cycling a new tank? Are these not a good fish FOR cycling? Or did I stress them out somehow? Or is there something more sinister likely to be at work which requires my interference?

 

[Newman]

yes this does happen with cycling the tank. fish in cycle isn't a really great idea since ammonia is readily available at hardware stores, but it could also have been hurt when you dirtied up the water. if you disturbed the sand then maybe some ammonia was released into the water or other bad stuff was released and the fish just could not take it.

 

[PossumCraft]

Thanks for the reply! I was doing quite a bit of research before even picking up the gear and pretty much everywhere I read recommended cycling with fish. Several places even said it was dangerous *not* to, which scared me!

Is there anything else I should do to help settle things, IE fish medicines?

 

[Newman]

nah all you can do now is just let the cycle proceed. if you add some sort of seeding filter media from a friend's established tank. it can help cycle your tank much faster.

 

[PossumCraft]

I used one of those liquid 'filter booster' things from my fish store, which apparently helps. Is there not anything I can do to give the fish a better chance?

Oddly I noticed they were all kinda hiding and looking pale until i turned the light off and they've popped right out and are having a merry old time. Is it likely the lights are too bright for them? There are two fluorescent strips in the hood.

 

[Newman]

not much else you can do.

maybe float some hornwort in the tank and make it planted (at least with hornwort) the plant will block some of the light and will make the lighting more subdued - hopefully making the fish more comfortable.

 

[OrangeCones]

Several places even said it was dangerous *not* to, which scared me!

Where did you hear it was dangerous to do a fishless cycle?

 

[FreshyFresh]

Where did you hear it was dangerous to do a fishless cycle?

Probably from store personnel. LOL! Most of them look at you with a blank stare at the very mention of a fishless cycle... Say what?!?

Possum, congrats to you for doing some homework and measuring your water parameters. What test kit are you using? No ammonia, nitrites and nitrates is fine, but you have to keep an eye on it and be ready to do big water changes as needed.

Given water parameters of 0,0,0, I'd assume those rasboras came from a very polluted tank (high nitrates) and couldn't adjust to the nice clean water of your new setup.

I'd do a massive water change, measure parameters, add 5-6 zebra danios and continue your fish-in cycle. If you can add some healthy 'dirty' gravel or filter sponge, that will speed things along big time.

 

[PossumCraft]

here is where I read it was dangerous to fishless cycle.

The remaining chaps seem a lot happier with the light off, do hopefully that's all it is! Gonna pop down and buy some dimmer or nightlight bulbs to replace the existing ones this week.

Freshy, is there a reason for Zebra Danio's?

 

[FishDad]

They can withstand higher levels of ammonia. Ammonia causes permanent damage to fish gills. But danio, I believe are some of the only species of fish that can actually reverse that damage. That's why they are recommended for cycles.

 

[FreshyFresh]

here is where I read it was dangerous to fishless cycle.

I didn't read it, but I'm pretty sure fishtankguide.net has no idea what they're talking about if they made that statement. A fishless cycle is harmless and effective. You just need massive amounts of patience.

 

[PossumCraft]

"Actually, cycling your new fish tank with fish is the fastest, easiest, safest, most reliable, and most humane way to cycle the tank. Cycling your aquarium is only risky to your fish if you cycle with too many fish or don't keep up with the necessary extra water changes while the fish tank is cycling. On the other hand, cycling without fish, also known as fishless cycling has many risks and is complicated and expensive. In fact, if you do a fishless cycle you are more likely to then add fish to an uncycled tank, and find yourself unknowingly cycling the tank with too many fish and without enough water changes."

 

[FreshyFresh]

"..........On the other hand, cycling without fish, also known as fishless cycling has many risks and is complicated and expensive. In fact, if you do a fishless cycle you are more likely to then add fish to an uncycled tank, and find yourself unknowingly cycling the tank with too many fish and without enough water changes."

Completely incorrect.

If it expensive or risky for you, you're not doing it correctly.

Likely to harm fish or add fish to an uncycled tank during a fishless cycle? Ugh.. I'm dumbfounded by that one.

The whole purpose of a FS is to build-up your beneficial bacteria colony without the possibility of putting fish at risk.

 

[FishDad]

Hah, "expensive"? What? That makes no sense. Freshy is right, Possum. He's giving you good advice.

 

[PossumCraft]

This is why I'm usually dubious using the internet for advice

On any given topic if you read 3 sources you'll get six different answers. Tuesday is when I'm told I should add another small batch of fish, so I'm going to see if my local store has some Danios.

 

[Thyra]

The only reason it could possibly be dangerous is if a person didn't use PURE ammonia - which can be difficult in some areas to find. A lot of places no longer carry ammonia and many that do carry ammonia that has perfumes and surfactants which would contaminate your tank because the residue is difficult to remove. The bottom line is read the label.

 

[FreshyFresh]

... Tuesday is when I'm told I should add another small batch of fish, so I'm going to see if my local store has some Danios.

Your water parameters are what will tell you if you can add more fish. Make sure your ammonia and nitrites stay at zero.

 

[Thyra]

I notice you list three tanks and multiples of a lot of different fish - are all those fish divided between the other two smaller tanks?

 

[PossumCraft]

Your water parameters are what will tell you if you can add more fish. Make sure your ammonia and nitrites stay at zero.

Jees I wish the so called 'professionals' at pet stores would actually give you answers like this. They honestly make everything sound like mystical divining and voodoo.

 

[OrangeCones]

Jees I wish the so called 'professionals' at pet stores would actually give you answers like this. They honestly make everything sound like mystical divining and voodoo.

PossumCraft - Sadly, you are discovering why forums such as these have been established.

Unfortunately, there is not a lot of profit in it for the fish store if you do a fishless cycle. You'd establish the beneficial bacteria without the loss of fish lives in the process.

Two issues with trusting a fish store's employees (not all stores are like this, but the VAST MAJORITY that I and others have run into, this is true):

1) Even if the store refunds or replaces the fish you lose (many chains offer a refund/replacement of lost fish within a set number of days), they often will require you to bring in a water sample (good idea in theory) to help determine what is wrong with the water. Then they will start selling you chemicals (like pH-Up, pH-Down, etc.), medications to treat sick fish, etc.

The chemicals and medications they talk you into is where they make a profit.

I've was in a store not long ago and overheard a sales agent telling a customer that the reason he had lost two fish was because his filter was too small. The size filter the customer had was more than enough, and the new one was easily good for a tank 4x his tank's size.

He walked out with his 'free' 2 replacement fish and a new $75 filter, plus replacement filter pads, etc.

Pet store employees are sales agents, and make a commission or keep their jobs by meeting a quota, when they can talk the fish keeper into more or unnecessary supplies.

2) The sales agent does not know any better so can only use the items in #1 above to 'try' to 'help' the fish keeper.