My evil plan

CAPSLOCK

CAPSLOCK

Elite Fish
#1
Jul 19, 2004
3,682
33
48
39
Cape Cod
#1
My evil plan - working on a planted tank.

So after some research, here it is:

20g Long (30*12*12)
Finnex Planted+
Activ-flora black substrate - w/ root tabs as necessary
AC30 filter

Fish:
Sparkling gouramis (6)
Celestial pearl danios (12-15?)
Habrosus dwarf cory (15?)
Likely a nerite snail or 2

The plan is to have a relatively warm tank (78-80) with fairly gentle water movement. This is for the sparkling gouramis. I have a glass cover so it should be humid.

Plants: This is where I need some assistance.
I really would like to do a ground cover, and a few types of mid-level plants in front of driftwood, then some taller/bushy plants behind.
I am open to ferts (PPS method) and/or Excel. But I am not going to do CO2.

Ground cover -
-Marsilea minuta/hirsuta (4 leaf clover). Is 78-80 too warm for this plant?
-Otherwise I'm open to suggestions - Glosso?

Midground -
1. Pogostemon helferi (Downoi)
2. Crypt parva
3. Sagittaria subulata (dwarf sag)? Or some sort of chain sword? Or Staurogyne repens?
4. Maybe something red?

Background -
-Not sure - Bacopa australis or carolina maybe?
-Heteranthera zosterifolia (Stargrass)

If I end up with too much light/algae, I'm open to floaters too.


Looking for any input or suggestions, especially in regards to the plants.
 

FreshyFresh

FreshyFresh

Superstar Fish
#2
Jan 11, 2013
1,337
23
38
East Aurora, NY
#2
Sounds nice, but WOW that's a lot of fish for a 20 long.

I've got an AC30 on my 20L and IMO, they're undersized for a 20L. Very little water movement. Since I have an airline in it anyway, I run a sponge bubbler at the other end of the tank as well.

I've got 8 neons, 4 blood fin tetras, 1 little honey gourami and 4 emerald corys in my 20L. Kind of bored with this particular tank, but they were the first fish I bought when I fell back into tankaholism. I'd only part with them with another tankaholic.

The only plants I have are in my sig. Not a big fan of fancy "plant substrates". Have it in my 10g and my plants do just as well in a tank with ordinary gravel. I dose a glutaral product for CO2 along with occasional Seachem flourish trace and flourish comprehensive.
 

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CAPSLOCK

CAPSLOCK

Elite Fish
#4
Jul 19, 2004
3,682
33
48
39
Cape Cod
#4
Yeah I know it sounds like a lot of fish. Only the gouramis will even hit an inch though, plus having plants allow more bioload.

I haven't had a planted tank before (aside from java fern), so I've been trying to read about stuff and figure out a plan that should work.

I wanted to have less water movement as the sparkling gouramis and dwarf cories both prefer gentle waters. I figure if I need to I can add another filter and/or a bubbler on the other side.

Frogbit is the one with the dangle-y roots, right?
 

O

OrangeCones

Elite Fish
#5
Feb 27, 2009
4,395
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#5
Keep in mind, too much surface agitation, such as a 'bubbler' will offgas the dissolved CO2. Properly growing plants will produce far more oxygen than surface agitation will accomplish.

If you plan to try your hand at breeding the danio, they usually stop spawning if the temps get above 77 or so. They an live in waters as warm as 80, but do better for reproduction closer to 72-74.
 

exhumed07

exhumed07

Superstar Fish
#8
Apr 30, 2006
1,774
0
36
Illinois
#8
forground i would go with hair grass or baby tears (regular not the dwarf verieties) as for the mid ground pretty much anything. you could go with ludwigia or a crypt. the ludwigia u can always keep trimmed to a hight u like. a great looking background plant would be Telanthera Cardinalis, Rotala, or maybe some jungle val. then for accent lava ferns, anubias, or something like christmas moss looks great. a floating plant that is great to cut light and soak up excess nutrients is duck weed. grows very easy and does a great job.

As for the substrate I'd go with dirt. it's cheap, very natural, and it seems that high light plants grow well in lower lighting in dirt. I've always found ferts to be a hassle. even in the right light plants did very poorly until i tried dirt. Which it makes sense. thats what plants naturally grow in. so I would strongly suggest looking into doing a dirted tank.
 

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big54bob

big54bob

Superstar Fish
#10
Dec 20, 2006
1,486
6
38
30
On my office chair playing Runescape
#10
6 sparkling goramis seems like a lot for a 30 inch tank. I had 3 in my 29 gallon for the longest time and I thought that was the most i could cram into that tank.

I would suggest ember tetras or rice fish instead of the CPDS. CPDs to me just seem to hide and don't school really well.
 

CAPSLOCK

CAPSLOCK

Elite Fish
#12
Jul 19, 2004
3,682
33
48
39
Cape Cod
#12
My 40B is already deeply entrenched in the dark side :)

I was looking at ricefish until I saw some in a large planted tank and they were pretty underwhelming (to me). They just looked like odd guppies - that fat/square tummy on the females. I have found that (for me) tetras are kinda boring - they seem not to have any personality. I don't care whether the CPDs school or not. They just are cute little things and not intimidating to the rest of the list. My next choice was going to be some kind of tiny rainbow.

Baby tears were one I looked at as well, I may try some out. And I'll probably end up adding some varieties of crypts and such as well. I haven't had a great chance to see what's readily available around here.

I shall have to see how it goes with numbers on the gouramis, thanks for the heads up.

Ex/Newman - I had looked into dirted but I know it'll drive me nuts if I get spurts of dirt all over when rearranging. And the potential for it to turn to mush after a few years... I tend to leave the substrate well enough alone once the tank is set up so that could become a problem for me as well.
 

CAPSLOCK

CAPSLOCK

Elite Fish
#13
Jul 19, 2004
3,682
33
48
39
Cape Cod
#13
So the update...

Added the ActivFlora substrate - man that stuff is awesome! No rinsing at all and immediately running clear. 2 bags = perfect amount.

I did exchange the filter to the AC50. It definitely seems to be the right choice - thanks Freshy for recommending the change.

Played around with my driftwood and ended up with this hardscape:


It's hard to see but there is part of the left piece of driftwood comes out to make an archway that reaches nearly to the front pane of the tank.


The background isn't quite that light in person.

Ended up with some changes to the plant selection - they are shipping now and should be here in a day or two.
-Marsilea minuta
-Ranunculus inundatus
-Hydrocotyle tripartita (Sp Japan)
-Lobelia cardinalis 'small form'
-Hemianthus glomeratus
-Bacopa australis
-Bacopa salzmannii
-Echinodorus angustifolia 'Vesuvius'


Keeping in mind I've really got no experience with these plants, my plans are as follows - please offer suggestions as to any thing that needs to be altered or what may work better.

-Marsilea minuta in the middle, between the driftwood pieces, probably leaving a "beach" area in the front middle for the dwarf cories to forage. Also maybe under that archway in front?
-Ranunculus inundatus on the right hand side, between the wood and the right glass (there's a doorway there so that side will also be a viewing pane).
-Hydrocotyle tripartita on the left side between the wood and glass. Also maybe under the archway instead of the M. minuta - and/or along the back behind the M. minuta. Suggestions?
-Lobelia cardinalis 'small form' against the right driftwood (in front of it / amongst it), also maybe along the back behind the M. minuta instead of the hydrocotyle?
-Hemianthus glomeratus behind the left driftwood in that corner, a nice big grouping of it as a good hiding spot (the least visible area anyways).
-Bacopa australis in the right rear corner / behind that driftwood.
-Bacopa salzmannii up against the base of the left driftwood.
-Echinodorus angustifolia 'Vesuvius' - not sure - maybe to the left of the left driftwood? Or right up against the vertical driftwood? Or poking up between the L. cardinalis & the right driftwood?

Should I have something tall growing up along the back middle, behind the driftwood? I was thinking it will give it a more "roomy" feel with just short stuff back there but maybe it will just look odd instead.


I'll add some updated pics once the plants are in there, too.
 

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CAPSLOCK

CAPSLOCK

Elite Fish
#14
Jul 19, 2004
3,682
33
48
39
Cape Cod
#14
So ended up planting in the areas more or less indicated in the above post. Plants arrived looking very good. Got it mostly planted late last night and then did the M. minuta this afternoon.





Looking at everything planted I can see it will need a bit more red/color going on. For the time being I'll just let stuff grow in a bit though. And probably grab some duckweed as I think it may be too much light otherwise. Doing a split photo period until I add fish.

Question:
Ranunculus inundatus & Hydrocotyle tripartita both have roots and also little runner things connecting the plants. I don't know if the runners are akin to a rhizome and need to stay above the substrate or not. Anyone know if I should separate the individual plants and ensure that the runners are above the substrate, or does it not matter?
 

O

OrangeCones

Elite Fish
#15
Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#15
The runners are how the parent plants puts off daughter plants. The tube can be kept intact or severed once the daughter plant has a size of half the parent.

If you want them to grow in thicker/denser, cutting the tubes in a 'chain' will cause each isolated plant to act as a parent, and put off two more tubes to grow more daughter plants.

The runners are not like rhizomes, and do not need to be kept above the substrate.
 

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