180 gallon SA cichlid ideas

lordroad

lordroad

Large Fish
#1
Sep 2, 2004
989
7
0
43
Shelby, NC
www.joshday.com
#1
My new 180 gallon is once again empty cause I lost my ray. If anyone's interested I documented the entire story on my blog.

I'm keeping it cycled with ammonia right now, but I won't be getting any more rays. The d. sabina I had was so unique and losing him was so devastating I really have no more interest in rays...

So I decided to go with a SA/CA mix.

My LFS got in four baby electric blue dempseys. A few days ago I couldn't resist and grabbed one. He's residing in my 29 gallon right now with a school of black neons and 2 inch clown loaches, keeping it real. I'm feeding him frozen bloodworms, roe, and pieces of shrimp to get him to grow faster. *SUPERSMIL

The electric blue is the only definite right now going into the 180, but he's only an inch in length so he may be in there for a while.

My stocking plans for the others:

1 red oscar as centerpiece fish
1 green severum
1 electric blue dempsey
5-7 firemouths

Possibly a blue acara as well. I don't want to go crazy on bioload as I'm only running an XP4 (stellar filter, I highly recommend), the biggest aquaclear, and a stripped down emperor.

Obviously this could lead to some aggression issues, especially with the oscar and maybe even the dempsey. With the firemouths, my hope is their aggression will be scattered among each other and maybe the others will target them. Would seven be too many in a 6' foot long 2' foot wide tank? Would they all eventually wear each other down to a single pair?

The plan is to get them all at once at small sizes, maybe throw in a school of silver dollars as targets while the cichlids grow up and then give them back to the lfs, and add the electric blue when he's big enough to fend on his own and not be engulfed by the oscar.

Driftwood and terracotta pots are the decor and provide adequate hiding.

I'm new to keeping multiple aggressive SA/CA cichlids though I've kept discus and angelfish, which ain't the same thing. So any comments or suggestions or other ideas would be highly welcomed.
 

Orion

Orion

Ultimate Fish
Moderator
#3
Feb 10, 2003
5,803
3
38
Kentucky
www.thefishcave.net
#3
Dude! That sucks about the ray! A LFS in a town where I drive though often has a few in right now. No clue about the species, but every time I see them I think about you and your tank.

Personaly, I would dump everything but maybe the severum. Uaru would deffintaly be on my list. Something really interesting would be to do a dwarf only tank. I've read a few things about apisto's kept in large tanks and the behavior changes dramaticly from those kept in smaller tanks. I think it would be an experiment that I would love to witness. But I can understand the difficulties of such a large tank, and only hundreds of 2in fish :)

Have you thought any at all about pike cichlids? I don't know much about them, but they are different than the average cichlid, and need large tanks. Several I've seen have been quite pretty.

Me thinks there are a ton of options. Would also make a great Front tank with a nice colony if you would want to do a Tang setup with some gental giants. Give me some more information of what you think you might want and I'm sure I can dream up something wild for ya. :)
 

VirgoWolf

VirgoWolf

Superstar Fish
#4
Feb 16, 2006
1,933
4
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Michigan
#4
NOW WE'RE TALKIN! :D

Sorry about the ray, that REALLY bites... but I had to get that^ out first. :)

Kinda sidetracked right now, but I need to come back to this thread. :)

All I can say now is do NOT raise that EBJD as a loner untill he is big enough, mine was a loner for a while and now even in my 220gal, he wants the whole tank to himself!
 

lordroad

lordroad

Large Fish
#7
Sep 2, 2004
989
7
0
43
Shelby, NC
www.joshday.com
#7
Thanks guys.

Orion, I've been looking around for pike cichlids. I think I'd only be comfortable with one. And I'd love to hear some more anecdotal experience about them being housed with other cichlids cause what I've read it's not good to house more than one in the same tank unless the system is huge. Ha, yeah, I'm looking for some pretty big fish, with the oscar being the biggest, the smallest topping out at about 6 inches. Severums are sounding better so I may just go with them, the oscar, and the ebjd. I was hoping you'd respond and kinda figured you'd recommend africans ;)

Virgo, tell me more about the EBJD and how soon I should move him over. As I understand yours is quite aggressive? My main worry is him being eaten as he's so small right now, about the size of a large female betta. And I bet you've noticed I'm doing a "Lordroad copycat virgowolf SA tank sans pleco" :)

Jeff, I considered chocolates too and what I read they are best kept alone and aren't good in the mixed kinda style system I'm looking for. Have you kept chocolates and had an experience contrary to that?

C-Man, an african reco too? Why am I not surprised? :) I'm set on SA/mild if at all CA as I've already got the EBJD.

Thank you guys for your input. I'll post a pic of the layout I have right now. It may be a little sparse as I plan to vac and net out waste every day or so (sand substrate) but I'm open to adding more junk...
 

VirgoWolf

VirgoWolf

Superstar Fish
#8
Feb 16, 2006
1,933
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0
Michigan
#8
LOL yeah, I noticed a few similarities in our tank plans. I fully support it! :D

I'm not going to suggest when to move the EBJD as I got mine full grown, so I'm not sure on when would be best. All I know is my guy was raised in a tank with just him and a few plecos, I took him and put him in QT, tried to add him to the 75gal with the boys and that didn't work, so he was in QT for a while and he just thinks that whole tank is his.

Now I will admit I have never seen him liplock or so much as nip at my boys, but he flairs and charges untill they are in the top 1/3 of the tank and he has the rest to himself.

I'd say if you can put other fish in with him, maybe get some small firemouths now just to keep him in check, weither you keep them or not, just to let him know he has to share. If you don't want to do that, I'd just put him in as soon as you know he's bigger than any of the other fish's mouths.

Are you set on keeping the sand? I just have basic white/black gravel now since the 220gal took all our funds and I had to tear down the 55gal and 75gal that both had B&W gravel mix, so it was easy, but I hate how fake it looks. I know when we move it, the B&W fakie crap is comming out and I want something more natural looking. I like sand, but I don't like the sound of sand alone. I want to mix sand with something with a little bigger grain. Possibilities? Natural Pea gravel, Lesco Soilmaster, etc...

Just thought I would throw the idea out to you as well so that you have your options open. I know the sand is best for the ray, but you do have plenty of options now that you will have more forgiving species.

Good luck and keep us updated. :D
 

Big Vine

Big Vine

Elite Fish
#11
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
9
0
47
Florida
#11
lordroad,

Sorry about the loss of your ray.

Your new plan sounds like a cool setup.
I'm just starting into the world of CA cichlids myself...taking the plunge, actually. :cool:

Best of luck with whatever you decide on!

BV
 

T

TheFool

Large Fish
#12
Apr 19, 2006
323
2
0
#12
Oscars and blue/green terrors would be low on my list.

1.Uaru +
2. Biotodoma are nice, pretty, get some other medium size SA oddities
3. Dwarf pikes - smaller species upto 15 cms lengh are frankly not harmful to most any other fish of the same size.

For a project like this do lots of looking, research, before you decide as you have really gone for option A here. Lots of interesting things around. Don't forget some matching cats.


Or just go for it, and get a managuense and nothing else.
 

B

BONGRIPPER0420

Small Fish
#13
Jan 1, 2007
44
1
0
cville, il
#13
the problem with pike cichlids is that their very hostile towards each other. the common ones you see all the time are the red ones (not sure of real name). they are very aggressive towards each other but never actully saw them going after other species. the orange pikes seem alot more mild mannerd. both will eat small fish but will eat most meaty foods (bloodworms, krill, silversides). i think the orange pikes stay a little smaller, but not to sure about the full size. i have kept both kinds in the past and personally i like the orange ones better.
 

lordroad

lordroad

Large Fish
#17
Sep 2, 2004
989
7
0
43
Shelby, NC
www.joshday.com
#17
Well, I've started stocking.

The setting is...

3 terracotta pots
3 pieces of driftwood, w/ more possibly coming (each representing cross-continental driftwood chunks)
Playsand substrate

The stage management:

The biggest aquaclear
The Wal-mart Emperor stripped for mechnical filtration only
The XP4
2 250 watt heaters, 1 200 watt

And finally, the players:

2 oscars, a red and a common variety
2 blood parrots
1 firemouth, with 4 more coming
1 EBJD
1 5 inch war veteran Raph cat

Possibly be joined by two tiny turq severums, when they grow out some, and if they can handle the heat.

A quick word on the blood parrots:

I actually bought these fish from Wal-mart, thinking they had mislabeled the species and had stocked a rare breed of severums. Juvie blood parrots look A LOT like baby severums. Dark body, striped, nice plump shape, very little deformity, FAST swimmers... all I knew about blood parrots and even the juveniles is they look like ugly red devils or midas cichlids, once they've been through the car wash a few times too many. I actually thought I had some nice severums for a couple weeks until the big one started to pinken up and I knew they were properly labeled.

So word to the wise: baby blood parrots, though they look really cool and natural, will get ugly and mutated in short order.

For a while I thought about putting them with the ray so he could eat them, but in the end their personalities won out on me and I actually enjoy the behavior of these hybrid fish (a midas or red devil and severum!) but do not plan on getting any more.

About an hour ago I put in a plastic craft plan... silk leaves glued to a plastic chain... and it looks great. As these fish will go to town on plants, I said what the hell, let them pull on a plant that's not rooted to anything.

My plan is to cram the tank with these baby fish and monitor them as they grow. Once the oscars are medium size I will lose the more aggressive fish. Same with the severum, most likely. And we'll let the firemouths settle any problems they may have... internally. ;)

I never knew how cool raphael catfish are. I stumbled on a near full grown specimen that I snatched up the other day. The armor on a big raph cat is pretty wild... spines, tough skin... definitely not a fish you'd want to handle unless you had it secured so you wouldn't get cut.


Full tank shot

Firemouth

EBJD, one inch

EBJD, common oscar, and large blood parrot

The whole crew, sans the smaller BP and the raph
 

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VirgoWolf

VirgoWolf

Superstar Fish
#18
Feb 16, 2006
1,933
4
0
Michigan
#18
Looks good so far! You have the 2 varities of oscar that I don't have (but would love to) and that EBJD looks so tiny next to them! LOL I bet he grows like mad in that tank though. The Oscars completely through me for a loop with how fast they grow!

Can't wait to see how this comes along. Any luck finding SA/CA dithers? I wanted to steer away from the giant danios because they are not SA/CA, but there seems to be nothing that can compair to them. They keep the aggression dispersed, they are too fast for any of my fish to catch them, they are big enough to not look lost in a 220gal, yet small enough to not limit my stock... if I could find a SA/CA equivalent, I'd be extatic! :D

You should definitly get the extra driftwood though. Are you going to do any rock or anything or just stick with the terra cotta and driftwood?
 

lordroad

lordroad

Large Fish
#19
Sep 2, 2004
989
7
0
43
Shelby, NC
www.joshday.com
#19
All I've found for biotope dithers (even thought I've mixed CA here) would be silver dollars. And I've never kept them before so I don't know how fast they are or able to stand up to any amount of punishment.

Nope, no rocks. My pH here is actually really good for amazonian fish, 64.6.8 through the tap... though it could change seasonally as we've only lived here since July and I hate to say it but I've only been checking pH on my freshwater tanks in the last two months. I may have to incorporate some kind of natural buffer so I may start using rocks, but I'd like to keep the tank open as much as I can.

How's your tank doing? I've been real curious with your BGK in with that crew. I have a an approx. 11" BGK in a 55 g with an angel, discus, and two balas and I didn't want to throw anything too aggressive into the 180 cause eventually I'll have to add him when he outgrows the 55.

The EBJD is turning out like yours... had him in my 29 grow-out tank with 11 black neons and 2 small clown loaches. Had to remove him when he attacked the turq sevs I got yesterday. Put him with my puffer in the ten, and they went at each other like Ultimate Fighting, so I moved him to the 180... the oscars chased him but after an hour they seemed to chill and the EBJD now gets up with the rest during feeding time... and he was also the first to explore the plant i put in.

I'm so glad I put him with them now when I did cause I have the sense he's going to be one tough MF...
 

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