20G Tank, new to hobby, need suggestions!

[Shaunna]

Ok, well I think I am going to make my first decision as a fish hobbyist! Since I need to decide fish or tank, I am going to decide the tank. I will have a 20 gallon rectangular tank. Whoo- Hoo I am now officially a budding hobbyist!!! I am so excited! Ok, enough of that. Now, down to business... as I said before the tank is for my little girl. My husband and I are giving it to her for her first birthday. That is why I finally went with the larger size because she will have to be able to see, so therefore I needed something kinda large. My theme is COLOR!!! I want something that will catch her eye. Are there any fish that are very, very colorful? Keep in mind she is only one so I'm not sure if the little tetras would be large enough to really draw her attention. Also, live or plastic plants? Any background recommendations? I want as many ideas as possible. Thanks alot, look forward to hearing your alls opinions. Now I am off to research fish... I will be checking for posts often. Thanks. I didn't think I would be as excited about this as I am. Is that silly?

 

[Seleya]

Hey, Shaunna! Welcome to the Tank! Definitely research the fish and see what appeals to you -- keep in mind how large they ultimately will be and what their individual needs are because they can be deceiving!

Your first step, however, is to read the stickies about cycling. You'll save yourself a lot of heartache and money if you start off correctly as it sounds like you are. Get the tank cycled while you decide on what you want, tho you may want to get as good an idea as possible which fish you are interested in before you purchase the tank just in case a slightly larger tank would be better. A 29 or 30 gallon tank usually isn't much more money.

See what you like and come back to ask -- there are a lot of very knowledgable people here who can help guide you to your best choice but it helps to have a starting point.

 

[FroggyFox]

Great choice Of course its not silly...setting up a new tank is so much fun, you *might* find that you get this disease we like to refer to as "MTS" around here...Multiple Tank Syndrome. Its THAT much fun

Researching fish is important...getting ideas too. You can get some good ideas by reading around in people's signatures where they list what fish they have in their tanks...so you can find some that have 20 gallon tanks and see what they have in theirs and if you like what they have.

First thing though would be to get the tank, get it setup in the room with a filter and a heater and some gravel and get it cycling. It can take a month to get a tank so that its safe for fish. (tons of information about cycling in the stickies at the top of this forum) You might look through some of the questions people have had about equipment to figure out what type and size of filter and heater you want to get. (edit: heh what Seleya said...I didn't see her post)

Oh..and on plants, live plants can be a whole other learning curve...you will probably need to buy some special lights and do some learning about what kind of plants need what conditions etc. Check out the planted forum maybe to get a feel for some of it, you might decide to try it later and just go with plastic for now...or you might decide to just start it all at the same time and go for it.

The classic COLOR for a 20G tank are livebearers, guppies, platys, mollies, swordtails are all livebearers and come in lots of different colors. They also really like to breed...they're kind of the rabbits of the fish community...so if you plan a tank with those you want to make a plan of what you want to do with any babies (so that the tank doesn't overpopulate). Look up a fish called a zebra danio. They're not real colorful, but they're extremely active and would probably keep the overpopulation in the tank to a minimum as they are little pigs when it comes to eating and will take care of most of the fry.

Ok I'll let someone else chime in with more stuff

 

[MOsborne05]

Welcome. Not only is stocking a tank exciting but it is also addicting. Beware of MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrome)! I just purchased a small betta tank yesterday and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Live or plastic? I started my 26gal with plastic plants and am going to be switching to live real soon. Plastic plants are easier to maintain, but they don't fill up much space. I wanted a heavily planted tank for tetras and gouramis, and you really can't get a heavily planted tank with plastic plants. Live plants require a little more work, but if you pick hardy ones than you shouldn't have much problem. I am going to use dwarf hairgrass as a foreground plant, anubias as a middlegroud plant and ambulia as a background plant. Those plants are all easy to keep and don't require a lot of light.

Colorful fish? I've read that cardinal tetras are the most beautiful aquarium fish, although I've never actually seen any. They are similar to neon tetras but they have much more red in them. A small school of 6 or more would definitely catch your daughters attention. Platies are also very colorful and are hardy fish. I have 4 orange ones in my tank and they definitely stand out. Also, they are livebearers so if your tank is planted well enough, you may get some babies and kids always like babies! Cory cats aren't that colorful but they are extremely active and make a nice 'cleanup' fish. I have 4 of them in my tank and they are always scouring the bottom of the tank for food.

Froggy, sorry didn't mean to repeat the things that you said, I was typing at the same time you were! Great minds think alike!!

 

[Shaunna]

Just to keep you informed. I am still looking. Here are a few I like, tell me some combinations. Here we go... Topsail Platy
Boesemani Rainbow
Celebes Rainbow
Praecux Rainbow
True Rummynose Tetra
Glowlight Tetra
Hammers Cobalt Blue Lobster ( would really like to have!)
German Blue Ram Cichlid ( also really like, tho a little advanced.)

Ok, I'm off to look for more. You guys put together some combinations for me, and consider the ones mentioned in the other replies, too. I will be checking them out.

 

[Shaunna]

I also forgot to tell you, I am considering a 30 gallon. Alot of the fish I like are 30g minimum. I know that widens the prospects so maybe some in betweens would be nice for now. Thanks

 

[TLM4x4]

OK Im back...thats awesome you decided on a 20 gal.(30 gal.??) I think you will be MUCH happier with a bigger tank to start with than a smaller one. My first tank was a 10 and I went straight from it to a 125 gal. and I was SO glad I did. So, I dont have much experience with "smaller fish" such as the tetras. Altho, I do have two blackwidow skirts and two white skirts...AND I have a blue lobster. I actually "inherited" him and some african cichlids from my son. I have a 35 gal. now and a 100 gal. The 35 has several african cichilds and the 100 has 4 good sized discus, the skirts AND 3 corycats that were mentioned as bottom feeders. I would really like to see you use them INSTEAD of a pleco...they are VERY messy to try and keep up on the poo they put out in the tank. The cories are very peaceful and very BUSY. The 3 I have, 2 are what most refer to as bronze, and one is a peppered one and they are SO cute. You could put a lobster in there if you can get a SMALL one in comparison to the fish you get. Most ppl would discourage this as they have a rep. of course of eatting fish. However, as with any creature it depends on their personality. Louie has never been aggressive to any of my fish and believe me if he were to my discus he wouldnt be IN there with them. Lobsters can also be "escape artists" so if you do have one you need to keep any openings on top of the tank covered with netting or tape or? Because they will climb up the heaters, hoses, plants in order to get out. GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide...it IS a blast which is what keeps us interested in fishkeeping in the first place.

 

[Seleya]

Nice choices! *SUNSMILE* One warning with the lobster -- they ~love~ sushi.

If you like the look of the rams, have you considered Bolivian rams? They're a bit larger, similarly colored and hardier imo.

I know the profiles section is down for updates, but they never removed the ~old~ profiles section. You can find that here: http://www.myfishtank.net/freshwaterprofiles.php

 

[FroggyFox]

Good Call Seleya! I didn't think to link anyone to the old section while the new one is still down

Also...corydoras are not a replacement for a pleco. Cory's are wonderful little guys and will clean up some stuff from the bottom of your tank, but they need to be fed and will not eat algae. You will probably need to add SOMETHING to the tank that will eat algae after awhile...but you dont need to for a few months after you've stocked your tank if you dont want to. There are some plecos who stay small and are very interesting like bristlenose plecos or rubbernose plecos....and otocinclius (ottos) are very cute and eat some types of algae too.

With littler fish I probably wouldn't get a lobster...but you could get some ghost shrimp? they're very interesting little invertebrates too and wont harm your fish.

Celebes rainbowfish are gorgeous I would love to have a species tank with them in it. They love to have room to swim though, so if you're thinking about them the bigger the tank the better. 29 is a pretty common size and you're right it opens up your choices of fish a whole lot.

Oh...take a look at Harlequin rasboras too...they're very mildmannered and cool fish. They'd match well with rainbowfish I think.

 

[Shaunna]

Ok, thank you all for the replies first off. I haven't been able to look into anymore fish yet, my husband came home from work, had to do the wife thing for a bit! Now I am back. I would really like to have the blue lobster. I think he will kinda be my base to grow from. So, that being said where can I go from there? Also, would the lobster help control the offspring? That is something I am getting a little more concerned about the more I think about! Do they make 20-30g hex tanks? I am looking at a hex tank stand right now that holds a 40g is the reason I ask. If so, are they good to have? Oh, as for the algae eater I was thinking of this one suckerfish a yellow suckerfish or something like that. It is a 30g min fish. I was concerned though of having a bottom feeder with the lob. So I guess if I got him the only other choice is a snail right? Let me know what you think. I am going researching, be back in a bit with some 30g min fish.

 

[Seleya]

Your lobster will limit your other choices quite a bit. Just something to consider. He won't just control the offspring, he'll control the 'spring-off-froms!' Seriously, if you like them, go for it, but do it with your eyes open. You will pretty much have to give up on any bottom dwellers which includes cories, plecos, many cichlids (rams)..... I had a crayfish once who liked to dangle on the plants with his pincers outspread, waiting for a fish to swim by, so middle swimmers also would be taking their chances. In the size tank you're considering, there's really no place for the fish to go to get out of his reach.

They do make 20 and 35 gallon hex tanks (common sizes). I have a 20 hex. With your choices thus far, a hex tank would be a poor choice for almost all of them -- most of the fish you are interested in are "30 gallon min. fish" because they like to swim. Most of the tank recommendations are with the assumption that you're using a common proportion rectangular tank. i.e., a 30 gallon having a footprint of 12 X 36. In a hex, you don't get the surface area of a traditional tank and you sure as heck don't get the swimming space -- they tend to be tall, not wide.

I don't know what a yellow suckerfish is. Do you have the scientific name? A lobster/crayfish will kill a snail given the opportunity.

Froggy's idea of ghost shrimp is a good one -- they're really pretty cool. You'd probably enjoy them, especially the way they swim upside down on the surface to eat daphnia!

 

[Shaunna]

Well the shrimp was my first choice. I knew I wanted some other critter besides fish in the tank. Then I saw this lobster at www.liveaquaria.com and I thought he was really neat. It said they will only get about 5 in in an aquarium and are typically peaceful with others. Besides it's own kind then they get rather territorial. Now it did say they would eat smaller fish that were slow enough for him to catch them. Should I just buy him and put him in there with some cheapie little fish and see how he does? That was another question I had; once my tank has cycled do I introduce all the fish at once or what? I will look around that just popped into my head as Iwas typing. How long do you think the tank needs to be established before I introduce the lobster? BTW the hex tank was just a thought wasn't truly considering it as much as a rec tank. Thanks alot for the comments. Please get back to me.

 

[Shaunna]

Ok everyone I think I may have to change things again. This sucks! After doing some more research I have discovered that my lobster friend doesn't seem to stay at the posted 5 in! And, since my tank is only going to be a 20 or 30 he might not be such a good choice because apparently they escape quite frequently!!! I read on another forum that htis guy was sitting in his living room, heard a clicking noise, looked back and his lobster was in the middle of the floor!!! That is funny yet also a little scary considering I have my own little 1 year old "lobster" who likes to escape from things as well as put things in her mouth! Not a good combination. Maybe when I advance to a larger tank. So, what other critters can I keep with my fish. Can frogs AND shrimp AND snails all be in the same tank plus fish? Let me know. Man, I really hate to see my lobster go!

 

[Seleya]

They are cool. They are also, actually, crayfish - lobster just sounds cooler. Believe me, I was told the same thing when I got Henry, the gouramies just taunted him, then, as fish got juggled into other tanks, the fish then in with him, who readily avoided him in the daytime, started disappearing overnight.... 5" crayfish is bigger than you may think -- especially when some of your intended fish aren't that long. The problem with starting him off with cheapie fish is, if he is a lousy hunter or they're too fast/lucky for him, you have fish you didn't want.

Definitely check the stickies -- ideally you'll have the tank cycled for much of the fish you're hoping to have all at the same time. The idea behind fishless cycling is to prepare the tank for the expected bioload without endangering any fish in the process.

Hex tanks, corner tanks, flatbacked hexes and bowfronts all are good for one thing or another -- I have at least one of each running right now and like them all as well as traditional rectangular tanks. I just sold a few of my tanks, but the oddballs are all still happily bubbling away in my house. My preference is the bowfronts and I have 2 46 bows currently.

One thing you can consider is to have your first tank a bit more peaceful -- go for the kumbaya shui. If you enjoy that and still like the lobster, consider a 20 hex with a neat rockpile/climbing area partway up the back for him to climb around in and on and some sort of smaller livebearer for color, activity and reproductive capability if ole Blue is handy with them pincers.

Be sure to read up on crayfish -- they too have specific needs.

 

[Shaunna]

I may still look into having one maybe when my daughter can understand what pincers are!! Yeah I knew the whole crayfish-lobster thing. I am trying to speak the fish jargon and since that is what therir listed name is that is what I go by. I don't know if you noticed I did that with some of the other fish I listed above. I think I will take your advise and start with a peaceful tank. I just got excited. Hell, I been looking at octopi, seahorses and all kinds of things!!!! That is way out of my league. I just didn't think I would get this excited. My husband was making fun of me earlier considering it was his idea to start a tank in the first place. So. 20-30 gal, peaceful, colorful tank. I like frogs, snails, and shrimp. So, I think we can build from here. I want to have everything pretty much decided before I go and purchase that is why I am in such a "learning frenzie" I only have a little over a month to decide, purchase, cycle, introduce, and maintain. Let me know what you think.

 

[Shaunna]

BTW, the "yellow suckerfish" is a gold algae eater!! LOL He was listed under suckerfish cats at live aquria and he looks yellow, so that is where I got the yellow suckerfish. They are very beautiful. You know for a poo eating catfish!

 

[Seleya]

A common name for those is Chinese algae eater. I don't think you'd want one -- they tend to get more aggressive as they get older to the point of sucking the slime coat off their tankmates and there are better choices for algae control (then again there's always an algae scrubber too!) Pretty much any variety of shrimp will eat algae in one form or another, otocinclus, plecos, mollies, flagfish....

Liveaquaria is in the business to sell fish, so the fish may not be advertised as ~thoroughly~ as a fancier with nothing to gain might. (heck, even the pic was pretty flattering!) I've never dealt with them but some on the boards have and can give you their opinions. They do state the CAEs are semi-aggressive and they aren't kidding.

Check out the profiles on MFT. I gave the link earlier -- some of the fish have pretty thorough reviews you should find helpful.

 

[MOsborne05]

I purchased a 26 gallon bowfront tank about 6 months ago and I absolutely love it. It's functional as well as decorative and looks very nice in our den. I'm getting ready to upgrade to live plants though, so do your research first because it's kind of a pain to switch from plastic to live when you've got fish in there.

Also, I've purchased fish from www.liveaquaria.com and I had a great experience with them. They are very knowledgable about the fish and were ready and willing to help with any questions that I had. I purchased four eleganz cory cats from them and I absolutely love the little guys, they are very comical. Liveaquaria is actually a branch of Drs. Foster & Smith. At www.drsfostersmith.com they have all kinds of supplies for your tank, and everything ships very fast and I've never had a problem. Also, you can sign up for their free catalog and receive some good tips on fishkeeping as well as what they have in stock.

The first time I purchased fish over the net, I did so at www.aquariumfish.net. They have a lot of positive feedback so I thought that I would give them a try. Unfortunately I didn't have very good luck as they screwed up my order, sent me more fish than I ordered and charged me for them and did not offer me a refund. The yellow female betta that I ordered I didn't get until about 3 months after my original order shipped. I asked for a male betta that was red with possibly some blue, and I got the ugliest male betta that I've ever seen, white with some green on his fins. Like I said, they have great feedback on their site, but my own personal experience with them wasn't that great.

 

[FroggyFox]

Pictures can be deceiving...sometimes they just dont show you how pretty a fish really is, sometimes they make them more attractive. Have you gone window shopping at any of your local fish stores? That way you wouldn't have to deal with all of the shipping fish nonsense, and you can see the fish in person before you buy and usually get your pick of the tank. There are a lot of cases too where fish aren't incredibly happy at the store so they might color up nicely or be more active when you get them home and acclimated to your tank, so if you see pictures of a gorgeous fish and then see them in the store and think they're really ugly...they're probably somewhere in between when you get them home

Yes you can keep fish and shrimp and snails in the same tank together...I like to have one apple snail (sometimes called mystery snails) in each tank to help out with the cleanup crew...and they're actually very interesting for a critter that has a reputation of being boring. Just get one so they dont breed. Ghost shrimp are usually the cheapest ones you can find...they seem to disappear after awhile I've never been able to keep them alive in my tanks, some fish eat them, you have to provide some hiding places where the shrimp can get to but the fish can't for when they shed their exoskeleton. There are a lot of other kinds of shrimps too, you could ask around your local stores to see if they have any.

Speaking of shipping things...before you buy all of your equipment somewhere locally check out www.bigalsonline.com (or the foster & smith link that mosborne posted) and check out their prices. Usually they're cheaper including shipping than any local store can carry them...and its the same equipment.

 

[BigDaddy420]

yeah, big al's rocks, i placed my first order from there last week and im completely satisfied, it was shipped fairly quick and everything was priced great, and he has a frequent buyer program for those of us who develop MTS.