20G Tank, new to hobby, need suggestions!

[Shaunna]

Ok, I bought my tank and everything yesterday. I got it all in a package. I will put it on here and you guys tell me good or bad and if I should get something in place of anything. Ok.

29g tank with stand, bio-wheel 125, Fritz automatic heater 10in 100 watt (I will go into futher questions on this thing!!), and a little deco thing for a saltwater tank, some water conditioner, and a few other little things like that. So everything for $125.00. Good deal?

Now about this heater. On the package it says to fill the tank, hang the heater into the tank and leave it submerged for about 15 min then plug it in and if the "pilot" light comes on simply turn the dial until it goes off. Then leave it for a while and check the temp when the pilot light flashes and if it is where you want it then that is where the thermostat will set it at. Well, ok, sounds easy enough. Only problem is I have never seen a pilot light nor know where it would even be located at on this thing. We have looked it up and down, front to back, and everywhere in between!! However, my tanked has stayed at a constant 76 degrees for about 15 hours now. It is set on maybe med- high. I had the light on all night and have turned it off this morning, do you think that was contributing to alot of the heat or do you think the heater is working?

My husband didn't want a tank filled with water just sitting in our living room so we went out and got a few fish from wal-mart. We got 2 glo-light tetras, 2 platys, 1 guppy, and a ghost shrimp. They all seem to be doing fine. They made it through the night. I was really worried about waking up this morning and all of them be belly- up! Actually they are quite the little piggies and are very active. Now, the flakes I got said they should be fed small portions multiple times a day. How many times? The 2 platys and the guppy act like they could eat all day long. One more thing here and I will let you guys respond to my book I have written on here Am I supposed to have an air hose or anything? The one little platy goes across the top and looks like he is actually drinking. Is he not getting enough oxygen or is he just playing? I say he, but I don't really know. Ok, well everyone let me know what you think.

I want to have my tank well established before I put my main fish in there. However, I would like to have them in before my daughter's birthday (since it is actually for her Anybody know what a good exciting fish is? I wanted clown loaches but my tank isn't large enough. My husband and I both like butterfly fish and true flying foxes. Let me know.

 

[Seleya]

A 29 is a nice size to start with. It's too bad you husband couldn't have waited, fishless cycling can go faster than fish-in and you could stock from the get go with what you initially wanted. When is your daughter's birthday?

If you're really in that much of a rush, you should see if any local fish stores have biospira. That would essentially cycle your tank immediately (within reason). Keep in mind tho, this hobby requires patience.

The basic thing with the heater is you want to temp inside the heater to equalize with its environment before turning it on. Is it a submersible heater or do you hang it on the back rim of the tank? The pilot will be visible when you turn the temperature control higher than the ambient temp in the tank -- you should see the side of it light up in a spot -- usually orange or red. When the temp of the tank is where you want it, you turn the control so the pilot shuts off. When you do water changes, it is very important that the heater not be exposed to the air unless it's been turned off 15 - 20 minutes prior to the water change because it can ruin the heater or worse.

What I would do is cycle the tank with what I have (if you cannot return them) and make my final stocking decisions after I saw how those fish did. If you still have them at the end of your cycle, you need to decide what to do with them. Butterfly fish like African butterflies? IMO they need a larger tank than a 29. If you did get them, it would solve what to do with the fish you have now -- he'd eat them!

 

[Shaunna]

I think they do have the biospira. I have seen that in saltwater forums so I guess I just thought it was for SW. I was also told that as long as I don't go crazy and just want to house a couple of "show fish" with the others that a 29 would be fine for a fish labeled 30. Like for instance the African Butterflies. They were just a thought. We made lists seperately of the ones we like and we both really enjoy Buffalo Head Cichlids, German Blue Rams, Double Full Red Cockatoo Cichlid, Orange Cockatoo Cichlids, and then multiple little guppies, tetras, and the sort. If I could get a few examples of like how many bottomfeeders, and fish, and snails, and stuff that would be great. Basically what I was hoping is that you guys could say " Ok, Shaunna, you can have so many of these and you need this many bottomfeeders, and you can have this many little inverts." I know it isn't your job to plan my tank for me I would just like some ideas to base upon. Do you really not think the fish I have now are going to live? Oh, and my daughter's birthday is 11/24. I will wait until about then to get the " show fish" that I want. Thanks alot guys for all your help so far.

 

[FroggyFox]

I agree with what Seleya said. You dont have to worry about your fish being belly up today...but maybe the next week or so from ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Did you read the threads on cycling? Personally I'd return the fish and pick up the three nitrite/ammonia and nitrate test kits and do a fishless cycle, or find some/order some biospira. With a fishless cycle it can take as little as two weeks for your tank to be ready if you can get some bacteria to add in from a local store's tanks or a friend's tank...or maybe a month if you can't find anythingto seed it with. With a fish-in cycle it will take several months and you'll need to be doing water changes every other day to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at a livable level for your fish.

A new heater that is less of a pain to deal with is not that expensive. I'd get one that is submersible and has a dial on it so you can just set it to 78 or whatever instead of fooling with the temperature guessing game. Either way, you'll need to pick up a thermometer that hangs or sticks inside the tank (I prefer the kind with a suction cup that sticks inside the tank) so you know you're not boiling or freezing your fish.

Other than that...the tank sounds like it was a good deal for $125.

Guppies like the surface of the water...nothing wrong with them hanging out up there. As long as your filter is on and working then there should be plenty of oxygen in the water.

As for feeding, during the cycling period you want to feed VERY sparingly. Feed them once a day, as much as they'll eat in a few minutes. Anything they dont eat you should scoop out with a net because it will just add to the level of ammonia in the tank. Fish can be little pigs...but they can go literally more than a week without food, so dont worry about them. Its more dangerous to overfeed than underfeed.

 

[Shaunna]

Ok, I have been discussing this with my husband and say we do return the fish, will the biospira get us up and running in the shortest period of time?

We didn't realize the kit didn't incluse a thermometer so we had to run out to walmart real quick last night and all they had were the little stick on the outside strips.

 

[Seleya]

The biospira would -- just stock conservatively and be sure to test your water for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH at a minimum until you're sure it's fully cycled (read the stickies!) The kits never have ~everything~ you need, but you'll find you're always buying a little something anyways.

The fish you have that you like are some very cool fish -- you'd have to decide which ones you'd keep tho because your tank will not support enough territories for all of them and some have different requirements. I would also venture to say, many of them are not exactly beginner's fish.

You could get your tank well established with the intent of adding a pair or small colony of one of your choices after you have had a chance to get into the swing of things. Some of them you may not even be able to find locally (what I usually suggest for newbies ) You may want to look around and see if there are any other local fish stores (lfs) in your area to see the selection available. You can also check to see if there are any aquarium societies - a great place to learn about and procure great fish!

If you chose to do that, you could keep the fish you have now (if they're what you like) and add 3 - 5 glowlights -- they like to be in schools. Where it's a tall tank, you might want to look into hatchetfish - preferably marbles or commons since they stay smaller and also like to be in groups. Or, you may want to look at cories - they're fun, zippy fish who stay mainly on the bottom. Again, they prefer company, so you need to factor that in.

Once the aquarium is more established and you have the hang of maintaining it, you can add a couple of the cichlids that interest you. Just start the tank with them totally in mind so it will meet their needs when they appear.

BTW, the platies and guppy can be sexed by looking at their anal fin (single fin directly on the bottom of the fish) if it is a fan shape, it's a female, if it's rod shaped, male.

 

[DEADLIFT]

The problem is when you start out with this hobby is that you get so excited that you rush into things. Take things slowly, research, ask everyone here and take your time-don't learn the way I did.

Do you know what your water parameters are. Ie PH, nitrate, hardness.

Next time you go shopping when your buying something ask for a pH and hardness test of your water, something that only really needs to be tested once if nothing in your tank affects water chemistry. Getting fish and inverts that match your water will definetly make things easier on your part.

Oh and I think you should start out with geniunely easy fish. Its nice to think about rams at this stage, but their quite fussy aren't they, just ease yourself in.

NOTE: I dont really know much about this so anyone is welcome to educate me, dont shrimps, snails and crayfish need harder water-something to do with calcium carbonate in their shells. Can someone elighten me?

 

[jaglar]

My dad 'gave' me a fish tank when I was four.
It had a little bottom feeding eelish fish (which I have never been able to find, it was small about 2 inches long, and thin) that was light orange, tiger barbs, and a barb like fish that was orange with redish fins. Sorry I don't know the names of them, maybe not helpful. It was just a ten gal tank, but it was delightful. I still remember it!
Maybe someone can ID the fish from that little of a description.
I think that this is a great idea for your daughter!

 

[Shaunna]

Thanks guys that was all pretty helpful. Does anyone know about c-100 "pillows" ? Tey told me they would keep my ammonia levels and everything where they are supposed to be and prevent new tank syndrome. I found the pilot light for my heater. I was looking for this little round light and come to find out it is a little clear christmas tree light bulb! If it had been a snake it woulda bit me! Anyway, I think we just kinda stumbled into setting the thermostat because it is steady at 76 degrees for about 26 hours now. That is with having the light on and off. I read that keeping the light on a 12/12 schedule is a good way to go. Is that true? Going to start researching water changes pretty extensively now based on what I read on here earlier I am due for one tomorrow. Some advice on that would be much appreciated as well. sorry I am asking so much of you guys. I guess you all think I probably jumped the gun a little bit here, huh? I am trying to progress slowly now, though. I am a very big animal lover so I am not trying to intentionally hurt the fish I have and I have grown quite attached to the little guys just in this short of time. They are very busy little things. Especially the 2 platys and the guppy. The tetras just kinda hang out with one another. Also, my shrimp has been swimming up in the middle of the tank. Is this normal? The other fish swim up to him and check him out but they don't bother him. I think they are wondering why he is up there as well I like having just the 6 of them in such a large tank. I can really get to know their personalities. Also, I know it isn't time, but has anyone ever tried the bulbs that come in the packs at walmart that you just drop in your tank and they grow from there on? Yes, Walmart IS the only lfs. I know it blows! Joey and I have decided that we will go to Columbus to Petland or Petco to get our more delicate more expensive fish, but I figure Walmart is fine for the little ones though. Ok, well gonna go check some things out. I will come back to see if anyone has posted anything new and again you all, thank you for your help.

BTW, jaglar, was the little eelish bottom feeder a gold algae eater?

 

[Seleya]

Thanks guys that was all pretty helpful. Does anyone know about c-100 "pillows" ? Tey told me they would keep my ammonia levels and everything where they are supposed to be and prevent new tank syndrome.

I think you are going to have to stop listening to "them"

Starting and running your tank properly will prevent nts, using smoke and mirrors can lead to problems further down the road. Some products work pretty well, others are useless or worse.

I read that keeping the light on a 12/12 schedule is a good way to go. Is that true?

The fish might appreciate it but it's more important when you have live plants.

Going to start researching water changes pretty extensively now based on what I read on here earlier I am due for one tomorrow. Some advice on that would be much appreciated as well. sorry I am asking so much of you guys. I guess you all think I probably jumped the gun a little bit here, huh?

Do you have a vacuum yet? That probably wouldn't be included in the kit. It's good to vacuum while you change your water out. LOL, yeah, you have to slow down a bit -- it's so exciting when you first get in, it's hard to temper your enthusiasm.

The tetras just kinda hang out with one another. Also, my shrimp has been swimming up in the middle of the tank. Is this normal? The other fish swim up to him and check him out but they don't bother him. I think they are wondering why he is up there as well

The tetras are just doing what comes natural -- they're schooling fish. Get them some friends once your tank is better cycled. My ghost shrimp do the same thing, they'll even go to the top of the tank to feed on anything you may sprinkle on top (they love powdered daphnia) Platies and gups don't school like tetras do, they're busybodies and perfectly happy to explore on their own. Some fish consider ghost shrimp a delicacy, even smaller fish can be dangerous to shrimp after they've molted.

I like having just the 6 of them in such a large tank. I can really get to know their personalities. Also, I know it isn't time, but has anyone ever tried the bulbs that come in the packs at walmart that you just drop in your tank and they grow from there on? Yes, Walmart IS the only lfs. I know it blows! Joey and I have decided that we will go to Columbus to Petland or Petco to get our more delicate more expensive fish, but I figure Walmart is fine for the little ones though. Ok, well gonna go check some things out. I will come back to see if anyone has posted anything new and again you all, thank you for your help.

The bulbs can be fun, try a packet! IMO, as long as it isn't ill-advised, the best way to learn is to try.

What part of Ohio are you from? Cichlid forum alone has 54 lfs listed, including a few in Columbus. Sometimes you don't even know they're out there until you check. There are also a few aquarium societies out there.

BTW, jaglar, was the little eelish bottom feeder a gold algae eater?

Maybe a kuhli loach?

 

[Shaunna]

No, a siphon did not come with the kit. Unfortunately, I didn't realize I would be changing the water this quickly. I don't really have the money to go buy one until Friday. Will it be alright until then? How much water should I drain? Will 25% be sufficient? Should I do 50%?

Seleya, what do you mean by ill-advised? Not the actual definition, but the meaning in this situation.

When I clean my gravel and stuff should I remove my ghost shrimp? He is pretty hard to see.*twirlysmi

 

[Seleya]

No, a siphon did not come with the kit. Unfortunately, I didn't realize I would be changing the water this quickly. I don't really have the money to go buy one until Friday. Will it be alright until then? How much water should I drain? Will 25% be sufficient? Should I do 50%?

What you first need are test kits. The reagent kits (those with drops) are much more accurate and cheaper in the long run than the test strips. You need to monitor your tank religiously during the cycling process -- your fish may be swimming happily but ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are invisible until your fish are in trouble.

With that small a fish load, you should be ok until Friday -- you can always use something very clean with no chemicals or soap used on it (or rinsed really, really, REALLY well, then rinsed again and again!) and committed solely to the fishies to scoop water out for your first water change. You'll still want a vacuum tho and don't forget to always treat the water for chlorine/chloramines before you add it. (quick note: NEVER use a household sponge on your fish stuff)

Seleya, what do you mean by ill-advised? Not the actual definition, but the meaning in this situation.

Things like adding chemicals to do what proper water changes and other maintenance will do, adding an oscar to a 10 gallon, anything that could be dangerous to your fish. There are threads that discuss the pros and cons of pillows, zeolite, carbon, ammolock, pH up/down.... You can do a search for a thorough examination of them. Some are good for their uses and can come in handy in an emergency, but others are crutches which can come back to bite you or just bad science and a waste of money.

When I clean my gravel and stuff should I remove my ghost shrimp? He is pretty hard to see.*twirlysmi

He's also probably the fastest creature in the tank! When you get near him with the vacuum, go slow but watch him! He'll scoot out of the way pretty darn fast! The only ghost shrimp I've ever had in my vacuum is one that decided to go exploring. He came out of it fine.

 

[Shaunna]

Yeah I was kinda wondering about the chemicals when I changed it. So if I am using a 1 gallon bucket to change my water then I need to add the conditioner to the bucket? Also, I suppose I need to buy a thermometer specifically for my bucket too, huh? Again, do you think 25% is sufficiant or should I do more?

 

[Shaunna]

Hey everybody, I got an avatar!!! This is a picture I took at the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium. Really good picture, anyway, this was the day when Lennon (my daughter) first discovered she liked fish so I thought it a proper one. Plus it is fitting for the whole aquatic thing!

 

[DEADLIFT]

Yeah I was kinda wondering about the chemicals when I changed it. So if I am using a 1 gallon bucket to change my water then I need to add the conditioner to the bucket? Also, I suppose I need to buy a thermometer specifically for my bucket too, huh? Again, do you think 25% is sufficiant or should I do more?

Well what I do is I have a set aside plastic beer barrel just for fish water. I dont use dechlorinator (but your water is probably different so I dont advise this) but just leave the 6 galls or so aside for a few days before the water change-gives the chlorine time to aerate out. With a dechlorinator Id probably put some in the barrel and leave it just overnight. I also have a mini-heater for my water barrel, though in the summer I dont really use it. Still best thing is to have the two water temps the same and it doubles as your back up heater too!

 

[MOsborne05]

The best investment that I have made so far was a hose with a gravel siphon. I don't know what the technical name is, but it is a hose that attaches to my sink. I just stick the one end in the tank and it drains the water, then reverse it and it will fill it back up. It also came with a gravel siphon so that I can clean the gravel out while I'm changing the water. It cost about 30 bucks but it was well worth it.

Shaunna, where at in Ohio are you????

 

[Shaunna]

Yeah that is a python! I am looking into buying one of those. Just have to wait till I get the money. I will also have to have a 20' extension hose as well. My tank is in my living room. I am in Washington Court House. Where is Gibsonburg?

 

[MOsborne05]

Gibsonburg is about 1/2 an hour from Toledo, or 45 minutes from the Michigan border.

 

[Shaunna]

Oh, I am about an hour north of Cincinnati.

 

[FroggyFox]

Personally I'd put the dechlor in the bucket, then fill it with water and then put it in the tank. If you use dechlor there isn't really any need to let it sit overnight unless your pH does whacky things straight from the tap.

When you get the python (which btw is well worth the investment) I usually squirt some dechlor in, then start filling the tank and do a couple squirts while its filling up. I dont actually measure it anymore heh As long as there's enough in there to dechlor the water you should be fine.