55 vs 75 Who Will Survive

[OCCFan023]

55 OUT 75 vs 90 Who Will Survive?

Well as much as I like my nano 20L with all the knowledge I have gained from this small peice of the ocean (and this site aha) it has brought me to a point where I want bigger things and items that are not avilable to a 20l nano. I have been putting alot of consideration into a tank upgrade and have been debating it for a while and finally think that I have come to the conclusion that it is the best option. Not only will I be gaining in added selection and maintence room with a larger tank but also with college in the near future a 75 will be alot more fogiving than a 20 (this was the biggest point of debate on whether it was worth it to upgrade, but if I left the hobby in college and waited to return it would not have been good down the road.) And the deciding factor was when I agreed to take a 3000$ job away from a local landscaping company to completly tear down our overgrown peices of land and I agreed to do it solo for free (except the cost of this tank!

)

Anyway now that the background is out of the way I just had some concerns that I thought some peeople could help me out with as far as equipment and benefits to different sized tanks.

I am looking at either getting a 55 gallon drilled with a 30-40 gallon sump or a 75 gallon drilled with a 30-40 gallon sump. But before I can decide I need to get some opinions and ideas from you guys. These are just a few questions I had:

1) With a 55 gallon tank and a sump when it comes to live rock do I need to add extra rock for the extra sump volume or should the main tank be main consideration?

2) How much would I be gaining in the extra width of the 75 in terms of benefits to aquascaping and live stock "happiness." Im aware that longer tanks enable more gas exchange but since the length on the tank is the same that doesnt matter. But would the added 6 inches of width be of any benefit other than the 20 extra gallons for bigger fish?

3) How much more "leway" (sp?) would I be getting with the 75 over the 55 (with sump volume as well) as far as tank paramater stablity goes. This was of big concern with college luming over me in the next year and a half (and wont be bringing tank) so a stable tank is of high priority. I mean Im not going to be going 8 weeks withouth a water change and no feeding but would the added 20 gallons be very benficial in a 3 week w/c scenario (4 at the max and at this point I probably turn to family to do w/c at week 2...)

4) 48" 492W Metal Halide Fixture & Ballast System - ODY48MH492 Has anyone used this light? Any comments? If I were to buy this either way I could use it on the 55 or the 75 and have my pick of choice corals. Lighitng is a big factor in the 55 vs 75 and if I could get the same light for either tank that helps the 75...

5) Im contemplating a sump and had a question about the return line. If I were to get lets say a mag drive 36 at 3050gph (at 5ft return height) if I were to split the return line into multiple outputs into the tank would just divide the return power equally among the tank or would I have balance problems? (I am trying to avoid a custom sump with external pump at this point so the mag drive is saving my behind)

I dont have too many questions regarding all of this stuff right now just these (early stages of prep work)

These are just my personal debates of the 55 vs the 75:

Lighting : to keep even basic corals the 75 gallon is going to require a much higher quality and costly light. 48" 492W Metal Halide Fixture & Ballast System - ODY48MH492
I was thinking of this light but if it is crap then I will have to be careful on added tank size as lighting will be impossible to pay for... unless I just stick to lps which is an option.

Filtration: The earlier question on if the sump volume will play a role in this. I mean if a 55 with added 40 gallons will need live rock for 95 gallons of water then this will be a large factor because a 75 with 40 extra gallons requiring that lr will be a pain. I am hoping the sump volume doesnt matter because the bioload will only be in the main tank and the tank inhabitants confined to the certain tanks restrictions.. God Im hoping the sump volume doesnt matter..

skimmer: Obviously the aqua-c remora will not be sufficent (well maybe the 55 but still doubtful on this. the Remora is rated UP TO 75 gallons but I want cushioning! I am obliviouse to other quality skimmers (in sump) other than the urchin and EV series. Any other suggestions and a range of cost for a 55 vs a 75?

live stock This is the big point of confusion as well. I mean I would love the added space of the 75 for added stocking and added fish choices but then again it will be harded and take alonger time to fill out a 75 then a 55 which both is good and bad. I want to have room in the long future to add things to the tank which a 75 will provide but then again it could look barron..



These are the main points of consideration at this point in time. Currently Im running the numbers for just the tank and stand and will crucnh the numbers to see how much added the 75 would be (ill post this up later to compare.)


Sorry for this rediculosly long/verging on rant post but I thought that you guys could help me out with this decision and show me points that I possibly would not consider (I know alot of yoou guys have a 55 or 75 {or tank simliar to the size} that could offer first hand experince)

I will update later when I cruch the numbers but in the mean time Ill just leave it at this 100 page post

 

[KahluaZzZ]

well i have both...the problem with the 55 when it's a 4 footer : 13 inches front to back. Aquascaping sucks.
I'll keep my coralife 3004 skimmer since it's up to 220 ( IMO you can split it by 2 ) when i'll switch.
I'll keep my lights, i'll just put more live rock and some high lights coral on top.

The MH combo you refer to is considered junk. Well some guys broke their sockets, the actinics aren't actinics and i saw many broken in their original packagings. Also some serious overheat and melting plastic issues.

The price is interesting but the quality sucks big time. 2 MH like that are the price of 1 Giesemann basic but i would take the basic.

BTW the Odyssea is JEBO. JEBO man...

 

[OCCFan023]

BTW the Odyssea is JEBO. JEBO man...

Yea man I know, I know, and as I wrote that question I almsot knew the reponse but I just had to throw it out in a lst ditch effort to give me any type of MH option lol. I guess I could pull off a pc or hell even a VHO or T5 lighting on the 75 to give me some options. It just sucks that lighting is so horibly expesnive.

Ill start searching for lighting possiblity after i get the tank numbers done and can see what Im dealing with.

 

[aresgod]

1. you don't need to add extra live rock to make up for the sump volume...that said, it can't hurt.

2. as far as dimensions you don't gain a whole lot between a 55 and 75, it will make aquascaping easier, but you do increase your water volume by 30%.

3. A 75 is going to be more stable in the long run, more water, plus it will take you longer to stock it (more money) which is a good thing.

4. MH are a must on the 75, not so on the 55, I would not go with that particular unit, I have used that company's PC fixtures and not had a problem, but the metal Halide units tend to have lots of issues, read customer reviews on the web and decide if you are willing to risk it. IF you are reasonably handy you could pick up some used MH fixtures on ebay for a resonable price and make a DIY hood.

5.I am not really clear on what the question is maybe someone else will be able to help you.

Sump volume, as much as you can, the skimmer, urchin or ev series are great, I actually use a turboflotor multi 1000 on my 90, and I am very happy with it, it is a bit of a pain compared to any aqua-c, but works well as long as it is in sump.

Hope this answered some of your questions, pm if you have any specific ones.

Brahm

 

[kevin4052002]

OCC, I've heard nothing but bad news from that site. They supposedly take the money and run.

 

[fish outa wata]

Your dilehema doesn't seem to be all that bad of one, since you seem to be able to swing either financially.
Personnally I think you should go with the 75. There are so many reasons but I think that in general it will make it easier on you and your parents. If something bad happens than the extra water will hopefully offset the problem long enough for you to get home.
I have 2 Odyssea pc's over my fw tank and they suck, cheaply made. I def. would never trust that company again.
Ares is right about finding something on ebay, I just bought a used icecap 250mh retro kit for $100. There are several posts that contain dual lamp/ballasts for under $200.
I would stick with the Aqua C brand, never heard a bad thing about them.
Look evertyhing over and tell us what you decide.

 

[wayne]

Cut and paste, but my opinion is get the 75 over the 55 as they use much the same kit, and the extra width is so helpful. 55's are a plain stupid shape.

1) With a 55 gallon tank and a sump when it comes to live rock do I need to add extra rock for the extra sump volume or should the main tank be main consideration? <<I wouldn't. Do something filtration style in the sump anyway - big algae filter or similar. Americans always buy too much live rock anyway>>

2) How much would I be gaining in the extra width of the 75 in terms of benefits to aquascaping and live stock "happiness." Im aware that longer tanks enable more gas exchange but since the length on the tank is the same that doesnt matter. But would the added 6 inches of width be of any benefit other than the 20 extra gallons for bigger fish?<<You gain tons - aquascaping, and water flow are much easier to tune in a wider tank>>

3) How much more "leway" (sp?) would I be getting with the 75 over the 55 (with sump volume as well) as far as tank paramater stablity goes. This was of big concern with college luming <<looming>>over me in the next year and a half (and wont be bringing tank) so a stable tank is of high priority. I mean Im not going to be going 8 weeks withouth a water change and no feeding but would the added 20 gallons be very benficial in a 3 week w/c scenario (4 at the max and at this point I probably turn to family to do w/c at week 2...)
<<it'll help a bit, but not so much as understocking>>
4) 48" 492W Metal Halide Fixture & Ballast System - ODY48MH492 Has anyone used this light? Any comments? If I were to buy this either way I could use it on the 55 or the 75 and have my pick of choice corals. Lighitng is a big factor in the 55 vs 75 and if I could get the same light for either tank that helps the 75...<<do you want your house to burn down? Get 2 x 150 DE MH as cheap as you can but form a reputable dealer, source. This is not the place to skimp. I hae no idea I'm afraid of what US budget sources of lighting are. You really need to research this. FWIW I doubt a comparable PC, VHO or T5 setup is any cheaper, especially long term>>

5) Im contemplating a sump and had a question about the return line. If I were to get lets say a mag drive 36 at 3050gph (at 5ft return height) if I were to split the return line into multiple outputs into the tank would just divide the return power equally among the tank or would I have balance problems? (I am trying to avoid a custom sump with external pump at this point so the mag drive is saving my behind)<<Get the sump. The water distro. won't split equally as there will be different plumbing, and thus drag, between the different sides of the split, but that's not necessarily a problem>>

These are just my personal debates of the 55 vs the 75:

Lighting : to keep even basic corals the 75 gallon is going to require a much higher quality and costly light. 48" 492W Metal Halide Fixture & Ballast System - ODY48MH492
I was thinking of this light but if it is crap then I will have to be careful on added tank size as lighting will be impossible to pay for... unless I just stick to lps which is an option.<<What is the difference lighting a 55 or 75? I don't see one. 2 * 150 DE with decent reflectors. To be honest you could get a way with a 250 and a good reflector and pull it upa bit, but it will have quite a lot of light spill out of the tank. If you aren't there to look after the tank lps are not really an option - feeding?>>

Filtration: The earlier question on if the sump volume will play a role in this. I mean if a 55 with added 40 gallons will need live rock for 95 gallons of water then this will be a large factor because a 75 with 40 extra gallons requiring that lr will be a pain. I am hoping the sump volume doesnt matter because the bioload will only be in the main tank and the tank inhabitants confined to the certain tanks restrictions.. God Im hoping the sump volume doesnt matter..<<Make it a non issue. 60 pounds live rock in the tank, algae in the sump>>

skimmer: Obviously the aqua-c remora will not be sufficent (well maybe the 55 but still doubtful on this. the Remora is rated UP TO 75 gallons but I want cushioning! I am obliviouse to other quality skimmers (in sump) other than the urchin and EV series. Any other suggestions and a range of cost for a 55 vs a 75?<<No. Used? My schuran is rated to 200 gallons, cost me about 100 dollars including pump used. You have a far greater choice of decent skimmers for a good pricve if you have a sump>>

live stock This is the big point of confusion as well. I mean I would love the added space of the 75 for added stocking and added fish choices but then again it will be harded and take alonger time to fill out a 75 then a 55 which both is good and bad. I want to have room in the long future to add things to the tank which a 75 will provide but then again it could look barron..
<<The fish are the same..... if yo really want low maintenance stock it low - pick 4 or 5 fish you really like, stick to that>>

 

[Lorna]

well I most definitely second, third fourth everything stated above.....go with the 75.......with a sump. I have a remora pro on my 75 and it does a great job, no complaints. I also have 2 x 150 mh with 2 x 130 pcs for lighting, no problems with any inhabitants on the light issue. I have 135 lbs of live rock and a 6 inch dsb.......no sump but really wish I did. That is my next modification ........ so as to return pumps....can't help out there. But isn't the mag 36 a little high ?

 

[YahooFishKeeper]

But isn't the mag 36 a little high ?

pshhhh. is there such a thing as too much flow?

 

[OCCFan023]

OK heres the updated situation.

Well the 55 didnt survive into day 2 so as you can see by title two I have a new dillema (thanks to those who said "hey why not the 90" , lmao naw theres really no difference between the two... so back to the decision)

Heres the price breakdown:

75 Gallon (48x18x21):
Aquarium: 110$

Overflow: 35 dollars, and I am debating whether or not I should get an additional two holes drilled in the back of the tank for 2 of the 4 return lines that will enable me to have more control of water flow position) extra holes are 20 a peice though so I dont know if its worth it.. Only thing Im worried about is that I wont be able to have flow to all areas of the tank with only powerheads on the back wall and top of the tank?

stand: 30in tall is 235$ and read for sump.

sump: 38 gallon (36 x 12 1/2 x 18~ perfect size...) 50$

Total:
Tank + Stand + Sump= 395$
" " + 2 holes = 435$

(will discuss equipment later, but I have some good news...)

90 Gallon (48 x 18 x 25)

Well this is not brain surgery here. The 90 gallon is an extra 15 gallons and all the equipment I would buy (which I will be buying) is all the same. Only difference is the 90 gallon tank is an extra 40$, so everything is the same as above just add 40$ to the total in the two cases...



EQUIPMENT

Skimmers: Here are the skimmers I am going to buy in the next 5 days.. which one depens on variouse events but all of them are worth it and would do an excellent job on both tanks:
1) Either a Aqua-C EV series 180 or 120.
2) Aqua Medic TurboFlotor 1000
3) Euro-Reef RS8-1. This skimmer is equivalent to the RS135 it just has the old number labeling..

Any suggestions on which one you personally like best, because to me all are excellent (maybe the ev and euro reef ahead a little but I would not be upset with the aqua medic.

Lighting This is the good part, if all goes to plan this will be the light:
48 inch Outer Orbit 2x150W 10K HQI-MH 1/ 2x130W Dual Actinic & 6 Lunar Lights

Rock: I already have probably 20-25 lbs of lr in my 20 now so only another 40 for the 75 or 50-60 for the 90 to have a good amount for filtration and maybe another 10-20 for aquascaping...

So in the next few days I will be making my decision on which ones above.


Questions for you guys

1) In the sump I am a little confused for the return pump. I was thinking about getting either a mag 12, 18, or 24 (1200 gph, 1800gph, 2400gph respectivly) or just get two mag 12s or lower. What I was going to do is split the return from the mag(s) into two lines into the tank (refer to ealier decision of if I am going to drill the tank for return lines.) But would two mags (one for the return lines that will go through the drilled holes) and one mag split to two of these (see below image) be sufficent flow or will I need more flow than just 4 points on the back of the tank? I dont know know the best way to plumb the lines back into the tank to create little or no need for powerheads in the actuall tank...

2) Second questions is does anyone know if you can connect PVC piping to the mags? I know the return nozzle of the mags im looking at at 3/4 of an inch but can I attach PVC to this?

3) This may sound idiotic but please forgive my ignorance. But do 3/4 bulkheads fit 3/4 of an inch pvc piping? Or do 3/4 bulk heads fit into a 3/4 of inch drilled hole thereby using a smaller pvc pipe?



I think this is about it for now, just wanted to update this as promised.

 

[dbacksrat]

I'm setting up my 75 and was suggested to get the Mag 12 (which I did). I'm choosing T5s over PCs and MH just because PCs are too weak for me and MH are too hot/expensive. We'll see how it goes.

 

[OCCFan023]

what T5's did you purchase? I never really thought about the heat being ap roblem from the mh but I dont think it will be a huge problem. When you planning the switch to the 75?

 

[Brack-Man]

Hey OCC, I can answer these for you...

2) Second questions is does anyone know if you can connect PVC piping to the mags? I know the return nozzle of the mags im looking at at 3/4 of an inch but can I attach PVC to this?

yes you can attach pvc to the mags,I know the mag 9 uses a 1/2" npt fitting, not sure what the larger mags use, and you can pick them up from home depot or lowes in the plumbing department...BTW, the mag pumps paper work will tell you what size fittings you will need to use to plumb it with


3) This may sound idiotic but please forgive my ignorance. But do 3/4 bulkheads fit 3/4 of an inch pvc piping? Or do 3/4 bulk heads fit into a 3/4 of inch drilled hole thereby using a smaller pvc pipe?

3/4" pvc pipe fits into a 3/4" bulkhead.... the bulkhead should require about a 1.5" hole in the tank for mounting


as far as question #1 I'lll leave that up to somebody else but mabye this will help some

 

[wayne]

For either the 75 or the 90 I would get the mag 18 over the 12. You certainly can get adequate flwo with just 2 points of water movement, but it will be far , far easier with 4.

I have used T5's in the past, and now have MH. Cost is the worst reason to pick one over the other, you either want the intensity of MH or can't live with the heat and get T5's. I have seen some of tanks which look as good under T5 as they do MH, and what they don't tell you is that if you use as many T5's as is required, the cost balances out. Especially if you use trashy chinese tubes which have lower output, and need changing every few months.

 

[OCCFan023]

yea Im hoping the deal with a local reefer around here workouts for that metal halide at a cheap price

As far as the mags could a mag 18 be split into 4 points of return, or would it be wise to get 2 mag 12s (This worries me because of the extra heat of two mags and also the extra space it takes up..) Two mags would be one running to all drilled return holes in the tank {idk if I would get two drilled holes or just one because thinking about it the overflow will have a return as well...) Will disuss this more later and get your guys thoughs, I will be avoiding as much need for in tank powerheads as possible...)

I actually have a used 90 in my garrage (unusable because it has no center breace and Im not about to put 90 gallons in my room with a DIY refurbished tank) So I can get a size comparison aswell which will be helping out in my decision. Ill be ordering the tank in the next few days so the decision is going to have to come down to the wire.

 

[Joe Fish]

I know I'm pretty much a noob yet, but I would love to have a 75 just for the added width. I'm sure the little fishies would enjoy the lateral swimming vs 12” in a 55.

 

[Lorna]

I use the 48" Current USA Outer Orbit on my 75g. I can keep just about anything. I am not sure though about putting it on a 90 as that is deeper....though you could just put more light demanding corals/clams higher up. I have a crocea and derasa on my substrate in my 75 and both are doing wonderfully.......no issues other than the replacement bulbs cost over $300 a year......

 

[OCCFan023]

yea this has only been setup for 3 months so I wont have to worry blowing more money on bulkbs for a bit.

Yea the 55 gallon got owned in comparison so either the 75 or 90 now

 

[SALTY WATERS]

Hey OC,

Are you going to be rigin' up a FW auto top-up system to this tank?
I wish I would have on my new 20g w/15g sump & refug. system, I have about 1.5 -2.5 liters of evaporation a day and it's a pain in the butt! If I have to go out of town even for a night, I have to have someone come over to make sure to do a top-up.

Just thought I would bring this point up incase you have not considered, as depending on how you set it up you may need to have another hole drilled in your sump.

 

[dbacksrat]

I've been on the verge of purchasing a 4x54 watt Tek light T5 fixture off of Ebay but I keep running into unforseen expenses (broken window, flat tire, etc).
We moved the stand into its final resting place last night, so all that's left is one more wall to paint then we can move all of the furniture out of the middle of the room and ease the tank onto the stand.