a question on medicating fish and the effects

brian1973

brian1973

Superstar Fish
#1
Jan 20, 2008
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Corpus Christi, Texas
#1
Just wondering, it seems we all recommend certain anti bacterial drugs for fish when they get their fins get nipped or damaged,or get a scrape/cut, the most common being melafix which according to the packing is all natural.

It would seem to me that if a fish gets its fins nipped then oh well, let them heal unless you see the signs of an actual infection. I would think that constantly dosing a fish tank would have the same effect antibiotics have on human bacteria, they grow resistant. I know the thought is in our little eco systems they are more sucseptible to disease or infections but if we constantly dose every time they get a bump/scrape what is the effect on the fish, thier immune systms and on the surviving bacteria?
 

TabMorte

TabMorte

Superstar Fish
#2
Jan 17, 2008
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#2
Melafix and Pimafix are a fantastic set of curealls that are great for just that. If your fish get a few nips put Melafix on its own in the water it will help keep infection at bay, it's a tea tree oil extract and perfectly safe for every fish I've ever met. Pimafix is antifungal and they can be used together but it's a bit stronger and irritates some fish so it's my 'second step' usually.

The think for a fish is that because they're in such a small ecosystem (albeit a more stable one then they would be in the wild) they're not able to escape water conditions that might be hindering the healing of their wounds. So I always figure it's better to be safe then sorry. In the wild a wounded fish could maybe hide, could maybe move up and down in the water to where it's warmer or colder, or maybe they would have a large school to protect them, I"m not sure. My fish don't have those options. But they do have Melafix :p.

I don't think it's an 'antibotic' like penicilin. I think it's more like putting aloe vera on a cut ot taking an advil. It's a treatment. Not something that the immune system gets used to. (Or this is my understanding. I have tea tree oil in my own medicine cabinet as well for humans).

Real antibiotics would be like Maracyn and Maracyn II. I expect you wouldn't use those so lightly.
 

brian1973

brian1973

Superstar Fish
#3
Jan 20, 2008
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Corpus Christi, Texas
#3
well not sure a product known to cause birth defects and cancer..albeit in california, is something to dump into the tank every time something isnt right.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
 

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TabMorte

TabMorte

Superstar Fish
#5
Jan 17, 2008
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#5
I'm not sure what you're refering to since I have read the label (both sides of it). Nothing on the label refers to it as cancer causing. It does emphises that it's not for human use which duh, it's fish medicine.
 

TabMorte

TabMorte

Superstar Fish
#7
Jan 17, 2008
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#7
You're right.

A common alternative 'cure all' is aquarium salt though it's not suitable for use with some fish (like cories, cat fish and loaches).
 

TabMorte

TabMorte

Superstar Fish
#9
Jan 17, 2008
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#9
No I meant you're right that we were derailing the thread.

My bottle doesn't have that label on it though either. I went and looked at it. I suspect that's a territory specific package.

Any how you don't have to but the problem is if you have one fish that's got a weakened immune system (cause of a wound or what ever) it can develop illnesses that upset the very delicate balance of the tanks ecosystem and can then effect everything in it. Which is why most of us choose to use preventatives rather then wait and see and have to go to heavier medications that are more disruptive to the tank if things go bad. (or at least why I do!)
 

alter40

alter40

Superstar Fish
#10
Nov 26, 2007
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#10
I think that if fins get nipped ohh well too. They should grow back on their own as long as the fish are not being harassed I would think. The only times I would use medication is if I were to see signs of an infection and with a warning on the bottle like that I wouldn't want to dose with it too much either. Like you said I wouldn't want the fish becoming immune to the treatments as well. If your concerned with upsetting the balance of the ecosystem in your tank I would recommend a QT tank for any fish that is either injured or sick so they can recover on their own and the treatments don't have a negative effect on the rest of the fish in your tank.
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

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#12
May 16, 2003
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#12
Melafix and Pimafix ARE commonly reccomended medications for aquariums. I am going to suggest that maybe you should calm down and be ready for answers when you ask a question, eh Brian? Yelling and carrying on really doesn't help your cause a whole lot. If you dont LIKE how someone answers your question, feel free to say "thanks for your response" and ask for more opinions.

I haven't heard anyone reccomend dosing a tank with either of those medications for no cause. If they are, then you are right...it is probably not the smartest thing to do.
 

brian1973

brian1973

Superstar Fish
#13
Jan 20, 2008
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#13
FroggyFox said:
Melafix and Pimafix ARE commonly reccomended medications for aquariums. I am going to suggest that maybe you should calm down and be ready for answers when you ask a question, eh Brian? Yelling and carrying on really doesn't help your cause a whole lot. If you dont LIKE how someone answers your question, feel free to say "thanks for your response" and ask for more opinions.

I haven't heard anyone reccomend dosing a tank with either of those medications for no cause. If they are, then you are right...it is probably not the smartest thing to do.
Click to expand...

Froggy,
I agree with you to an extent, however I did not ask how good melafix was for preventive, or anyones opinion was on how commonly it is used or even recommended, I know it is both commonly used and recommended I started the thread with that.

My posting questions was since it is so readily recommended what are the effects of the over use of these chemicals and the possible effects of bacteria growing resistant, etc.. my second post was somewhat smart a__ i admit it, but i would assume that since we know that fish are typically more susceptible to environmental contaminants why would we dose a cancer causing agent...again albeit in California, and an OSHA listed hazardous material so freely?

The reason my response came off the way it did was I posted the MSDS and a picture of the label..these REQUIREMENTS do not change by where u live (within the USA)especially if it is just a natural substance. the ingrediants in beer are natural substances and many become immune/addicted to the effects of it, caffeine which is a natural substance in tea is addictive.

The point of my thread was never answered.

IMO that by introducing a foreign substance into a completely healthy tank where one fish is acting funny is more upsetting to that delicate eco community than #1 leaving the fish alone to heal #2 removing the sick/injured fish and observing/treating as needed and observing the other fish.

I have used melafix and i have not used it..i have found no difference in healing times. I personally think it is worthless as a treatment for certain things it is labeled to treat, but that is my opinion based on my limited experience. <----- theres the key "my limited experience"..

when i was new to this forum i listened to those that had LARGE FISH under there name...heck it took me 2 weeks to figure out that they posted alot, so if i decide to post ...oh say 10.4 times a day and have no idea what i am talking about a good deal of the time then the newbies that havent realized i am sometimes clueless will listen to me. Voice your opinion on experience or research...or what you have learned from here..that would fall under research i believe, and if you not 100% sure when telling someone whats wrong with there fish or to dose with a chemical state that in your response.


Thank you.
 

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FroggyFox

FroggyFox

Forum Manager
Moderator
#16
May 16, 2003
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#16
I really think that is part of being a forum. You start a thread, it sometimes stays on topic, it sometimes doesn't. Some people post a lot and other people don't. People need to take the information in each post with a grain of salt. Personally just because someone is a Super Fish or whatever it does not make me think that they know all. I've been here for a long time but people like Lotus know a TON more than I do about most everything in the aquarium industry.

When it comes right down to it, we are all still learning whether we've been keeping fish for 5 decades 5 years or 5 days...and if someone thinks that they know it all and are no longer learning then I dont really care to converse with them.
 

brian1973

brian1973

Superstar Fish
#17
Jan 20, 2008
2,001
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Corpus Christi, Texas
#17
ok Froggy since you decided to put this useless thread back up can we get back to the question. I would not have asked it if i wasnt curious for the thoughts on this, heck give your thoughts on the effectiveness in your experience with melafix as well.

my experience was i used melafix as directed and have 3 fish remaining out of 10 that where being treated in a QT tank with no visible symptoms until right before they died. So IMO it isnt very ffective as the anti bacterial cure it is advertised to be.
Second my catfish seem to like to snack on my pleco's fins at night, with out treatment these fins completely healed (grew back) in about 4 days.

I notice we constantly harp on water params but then recommnd using chemicals to treat the slightest symptom that something may be wrong, and the thought is with melafix it is all natural so it wont hurt anything, well IMO if it can cause cancer and is listed by OSHA as a harzardous substance then is it truly the safest thing to put into the tank unless u have to?
 

I

iapetus

Large Fish
#18
Jan 15, 2008
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34:09:39N, 118:08:19W
#18
brian, you seem to harping on the issue of the cancer warning labels on these products. That might be something of a red herring here. Cancer is, by and large, a disease that humans and dogs get; it's really rare in the rest of the animal world. So, it's not really clear what the implications of that label are for fish. And, as we all know, fish and human biochemistry are very different. Certainly, you can think of many things people can tolerate that other animals cannot and vice versa. So, I'm not so sure how relevant that part of it is.

But, I haven't really read anyone in this forum saying that overmedicating is necessarily a good thing. So, I'm not sure where the argument is.
 

brian1973

brian1973

Superstar Fish
#20
Jan 20, 2008
2,001
3
38
Corpus Christi, Texas
#20
iapetus said:
brian, you seem to harping on the issue of the cancer warning labels on these products. That might be something of a red herring here. Cancer is, by and large, a disease that humans and dogs get; it's really rare in the rest of the animal world. So, it's not really clear what the implications of that label are for fish. And, as we all know, fish and human biochemistry are very different. Certainly, you can think of many things people can tolerate that other animals cannot and vice versa. So, I'm not so sure how relevant that part of it is.

But, I haven't really read anyone in this forum saying that overmedicating is necessarily a good thing. So, I'm not sure where the argument is.
Click to expand...
thanks... I will say, I wasnt harping I was basically restarting the thread.to get it off to a fresh start. I thought we cleared that up, and where moving on so i will say you have a valid point but the questions are still unanswered. The origainal post of this thread is posted below.I will ask that since 3 pages have been wasted for IMO useless information now. Please post with your opinions on the questions asked in the original thread and the new ones posted on page 2 in my post right after Froggyfox.

If you would like to discuss what you consider harping then PM me and feel free to discuss it, I was pointing out that the red herring as u said is that the chemical is known to be hazardous to humans, yet it is an "all natural product" that we freely say to add to ur tank for almost any unknown reason, I was not trying to imply your fish would get cancer, how would u know if they did anyway, would you spend the money to test your pet fish for cancer, you can not reliably say only people,dogs, and even cats are the major things that get cancer..these are the pets we pay money to get checked out, if your fish has a big lump you probably would flush it and not take it to a vet. It is known all animals, and humans, are suseptible to cancer.

Original Post:
Just wondering, it seems we all recommend certain anti bacterial drugs for fish when they get their fins get nipped or damaged,or get a scrape/cut, the most common being melafix which according to the packing is all natural.

It would seem to me that if a fish gets its fins nipped then oh well, let them heal unless you see the signs of an actual infection. I would think that constantly dosing a fish tank would have the same effect antibiotics have on human bacteria, they grow resistant when exposed to antibiotics over time. I know the thought is in our little eco systems they are more sucseptible to disease or infections but if we constantly dose every time they get a bump/scrape what is the effect on the fish, thier immune systms and on the surviving bacteria?
 

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