advice

[angelfish200]

Iam just a beginner really i have tropical fish incl
9 neons
1 sml plec
1 guppy ( ihad more but they died)
6 angel fish
3 balloon mollies
2 gouramis (small ones)
1 elephant longnose (8 inches)

Recently I have lost a few fish incl a larger plec which was heart breaking he was great and nothing semed wrong with him at all, one morning he was dead. a few mollies. I have tested for nitrite and amonia all are fine. i have just put in some tonic. is there anything alse i can do? I have a 125 litre tank.

 

[Milo]

How long did you allow the tank to cycle before adding the fish?

 

[JustOneMore20]

125 liters is about 33 gallons, maybe a tad more. I believe you are overstocked. How big are your angelfish? You will most likely have problems when they get full grown and overcrowded. I'd seriously consider getting rid of 4 of them...maybe 5.

What is your nitrAte level? Did you cycle your tank? How long has it been setup?

 

[angelfish200]

i waited about 2 weeks I started my tank in the middle of may. i do 20% water changes every 2-3 weeks and feed every other day.
i also have 1 clown loach and 1 albino shark which i fogot to add.

 

[angelfish200]

My angel fish are quite small ate the mo. and my nitrite and amonia levels are 0.

 

[Milo]

Yes the tank is definitly overstocked. I would remove some fish, and probably start with the angels as they will get pretty large when they get older.

Also, you need to do more water changes, especially with all those fish. You should do 10 - 15% once a week. Probably more with all those fish.

 

[angelfish200]

oh no! the place where I got them from said that i could have loads in the size tank that i have. So every week I should be doing water changes. Do you think that an over stocked tank would have killed my common plec?

 

[Milo]

I am not sure how the effect would be on a pleco but I would imagine just like any other fish. The tank seems to be severly overstocked. At most you should have around 8 fish in there including the plec. not 23.

I imagine that the person who informed you that that many fish would be fine. Was this person making a profit from selling you the fish? Basically if you bought everything from your LFS (local fish store) ofcourse they are going to overstock you, because then you buy the fish, some fish die, then you go back and buy more fish. Its a vicious cycle.

Remove some fish, try to bring them back to the store, then complete some water changes. I do 10% water changes once a week.

 

[angelfish200]

Even though my water is fine. Iwas told that to many water changes can disrupt the bacteria that a good tank has and needs. My tank doesn't look over stocked when you look at it.

 

[Milo]

It may look like your fish have all this space to swim in but they do not. the general rule of thumb (which i feel is inacurate) is 1 gallon per 1.5 inch of fish.

You have 25 fish in your 33 gallon tank! You do the math!

 

[angelfish200]

OK! I get the hint.

 

[homebunnyj]

Too many water changes during the cycling process may not be good, but once your tank is cycled, there's really no such thing as too many water changes. You can change ten, twenty, thirty percent at a time. You just have to be sure to match the temperature and to dechlorinate the tap water.
Whether a tank 'looks' overstocked is a subjective judgment. The way you tell if your tank is overstocked is to test for nitrates regularly. I aim to keep it below twenty. If it shoots up to forty or more in between weekly water changes, I know my tank is definitely overstocked. Your fish are all eliminating in there. You need to keep the waste products sufficiently diluted, otherwise your fish will not thrive.
You stated that the ammonia and nitrite levels are 'fine.' What was the actual reading (EDIT: just found numbers above), and when did you last test? Do you vacuum the substrate? It's good that you are not overfeeding.
What is the 'tonic' that you added to the tank?
Here is some very useful information
http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/fre...eshwater-beginner-stickies-read-me-first.html
which you can profit from reading.

BTW.... Welcome to the tank!

 

[angelfish200]

nitrite has never been above 0ppm and amonia has never been above 0.0mg/l temperature is always 83. When i do water changes i always suck under the gravel with the syphoner to get up all the dirt.

 

[angelfish200]

the tonic I put in is called liquisil general tonic

 

[Milo]

Thats good the way you are cleaning the tank. Clean all the gravel because that is where all the excess food and waste goes.

Your culprit (or culprits) are probably your Mollies, I have read that when kept together in a confined space that they can become quite aggressive. Take note of that.

Also, By doing a simple calculation of all the fish that you have in your tank, once they are at mature size, you will have approxamitely 89 inches of fish in your tank. Using the general arule of thumb with 1.5 gallons of water per 1 inch of fish, you need roughly around a 133 gallon (503 Litre) tank to keep the amount of fish that you want. (*NOTE, THIS CALCULATION DOES NOT INCLUDE THE CLOWN LOACH OR THE ALBINO SHARK)

Now you can understand why the fishstore would sell you that amount of fish. Also, your fish are probably small now, but when they get bigger they will literaly have no room to swim!

 

[angelfish200]

I guess I need to either get a bigger tank or like you said take back some fish. i'mso angry with the fish shop!!!

 

[GIS Guy]

Don't beat yourself up about it. They do it to everyone.

 

[JustOneMore20]

You never mentioned a nitrAte reading. Do you test for nitrAtes?

The fish may look fine now, but when you have 6 full grown angels at about 7 inches tall and 5-6 inches long in that tank, it will look very very overcrowded. The clown loach will grow 6-8 inches and the rainbow shark may get territorial toward fish that get too close to him.

Here is a good stocking list for you:
1-2 angels (preferably 1 because 2 may not get along in such a confined space)
9 neons (they are natural prey of angels, so keep an eye on the number)
1 small pleco (if its a common though you'll need to return it)
3 mollies
3-4 guppies
elephantnose

That is still probably overstocked, especially if you get alot of fry from the livebearers, but with enough water changes, it will be fine.

I'd do a 50% water change weekly. Thats what I do in all my tanks and I have never had a problem. With 0 ammonia and nitrites, you don't seem to be cycling, so its ok to gravel vac once a week with the water changes.

I'd return atleast 4 of the angels, maybe even 5, the clown loach, the rainbow shark, and the gouramis.

 

[angelfish200]

Ok thanks for the advice as upsetting as it is

 

[Milo]

Sorry angelfish, I know how exciting it is to set up a tank and have the fish store tell you all this information that turns out to be incorrect.

Last time i went to the local fish store as i was walking in i saw this girl sitting on the curb with a tank still in the box with everything that she needed to set it up aswell as fish in a bag. I was so pissed off, but mostly at the fish store for allowing her to buy the fish. They of all people should know! The tank needs to cycle atleast for 1 week and by her putting in a new fish in uncycled water is a death sentence waiting to happen. (grrr)