aqua babies?/Co2 Discussion.

ryanp15

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,130
0
0
37
Kentucky
#21
Re: aqua babies?

I just got done visiting the aqua babies website and I can't beleive this is going on! It would be okay if people bought them and then gave them a proper home when they outgrew it. But however I don't think this is what is happening. It's just bad. The aqua babies web site really tries to make it look like the fish are really cared for and great and stuff. I just think this is horrible. ;D
 

Ovrclckd

Large Fish
Oct 22, 2002
150
0
0
#23
Re: aqua babies?

[quote author=AquaPsycho link=board=beginner&num=992369323&start=15#18 date=06/14/01 at 20:23:36]
ok so i stand corrected about the plants using o2. This does not happen in non-aquatic plants so i looked it up and it is true. How very strange.
[/quote]

Ummmmmmm... no. I don't just study biology, its my major. All living things, plants included, use oxygen. The final product of photosynthesis is glucose. The plant, and all living things need oxygen to convert glucose to energy, and plants also use oxygen in the process of turning glucose into other things used in construction of new growth, such as cellulose. Plants respire like everything else. They may spend the day photosynthesizing, but when that process stops at night, the plant takes in oxygen just like everything else, to be used in the processes of energy and growth.

Thats why plants need rest to grow. Thats why a plants rest cycle is so important. Plants DO use oxygen.
 

Kristin

Medium Fish
Oct 22, 2002
89
0
0
#24
Re: aqua babies?

you sure it wasn't a betta bubble nest? every betta bowl or tank i have ever had has had bubbles under surfaces in the tank from the betta!  they build bubble nests in preparation of breeding, and it is not oxygen pearling from the plant. that only happens in really healthy and well established tanks. and oxygen in the water from a plant is not going to eliminate all the ammonia and nitrites that build up over time from crowding- only mechanical and chemical filtration plus regular water changes does that. even if some how the fish survived cycling in such a timy tank, the nitrates at the end of the cycle would be EXTREMELY high, and plants only compound this problem.
 

Matt Nace

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,470
1
38
Pennsylvania
#25
Re: aqua babies?

Here is a quote from a nice web page(long)

Kinda for you ronrca, may not be exactly what you wanted.

"Q: There is a system that plants create oxygen that is used by fish and converted to CO2 which is again changed be the plants into more oxygen.
It is nice to think that the plants help the fish by providing oxygen and the fish help the plants by providing CO2 and fertilizer. In most aquariums, this is not true.

First of all, plants convert CO2 and nutrients into carbohydrates and oxygen provided there is enough energy (light) to maintain photosynthesis. As plants grow faster, they draw more CO2 and nitrogen and phosphorus from the water and they generate more O2. This is good for the fish. However, fish won't produce enough CO2 to raise the level above normal equilibrium levels (2-3 ppm) unless you are massively overcrowding the fish. It will diffuse into the air as fast as the fish produce it.

How do you tell how fast the plants are growing? Besides making physical measurements, you can monitor the O2 in the water with test kits. You will find that in a non-CO2 injected aquarium the O2 level is around 80-85% of saturation (O2 saturation is 8.1 mg/l at sea level and 75 F, lower at higher altitudes and temperatures). In a tank of water with no life and decent circulation, you will find that the water is very close to O2 saturation due to diffusion at the water surface. As you add fish and bacteria and other O2 users, you will find that surface diffusion is not enough to keep up with the O2 demand, and the O2 level drops to the 80-85% level. Even massive aeration (bubble wands, etc) is not enough to get the levels above 90%. Even trickle filters will not raise O2 above 95%, contrary to the ads you see. This is not conjecture, but based on measurements made in our home aquariums.

The only way to actually increase the O2 level of the water is to either inject O2 with an O2 reactor (which no one does) or to get some biological process going that can force addtional O2, which is where plants come in. Keep in mind that plants *only* generate O2 when they are photosynthesizing; at other times (like at night), they are O2 users along with everything else. I have found that without CO2 injection, the plants do not produce enough O2 to raise the O2 above what a tank without plants would have. The only purpose they serve is to provide decoration and hiding places for fish. They do not provide "balance" in the biological sense.

With CO2 injection (and proper light and nutrients, of course), you can phyically see the plants generating O2. Bubbles form under the leaves and streams of bubbles come from broken leaves and stems. We typically measure from 110 to 125% oxygen saturation (which is good for our fish, since we live at a high altitude and they would see a deficiency otherwise). When plants are growing this fast, they are also removing more pollutants from the water and provide some of the balance you are trying to achieve."

Found it intresting about the percentage of O2 in the water.
 

Matt Nace

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,470
1
38
Pennsylvania
#26
Re: aqua babies?

I know not everyone agrees with the aqua babys, but I know some peoples tanks that probebly worse.

1. They overfeed
2. They never change the water...ok once a year...maybe twice.
3 Their fish tanks are so crowded.
4 They never dechlorinate the water.
5. They have no plants.
6 When the fish dies..they just put new ones right back in.
These people are co-workers of mine. The one is a 10 gallon tank, the other person has a 75 gallon.

The 10 gallon has bala shark, silver dollars, neons,guppies,a pleco, CAE, and a few other tetras.

Her tank is yellow, cloudy, and so packed with fish..I dont see how they even live.

she says, it isn't mine..it is my Mom's

The other girl's husband has a cichlid tank.

There are so many fish that they dont even hide in rocks, because the rocks are all taken. They hang out by the filter, the thermo, they literly dig in the gravel to hide their heads. Another rediculas tank, which "I dont have time" or "the water doesn't look bad"  is their response to me.He hasn't changes the water for years. The filter was just changed cause it stank up their bedroom.(I dont know why she told me that)

I bet aquapsyco will take care of her little tank..dont you guys? It may be small, but which is worse?

Actually buying fish from walmart is the worst...but..... 8)

I personnaly hate anything smaller than a 30 gallon(excpet my q-tank), but everyone has tastes, style, and budgets that are different. That is my 2 cents.
 

R

ronrca

Guest
#27
Re: aqua babies?

Cool article about o2! Thanx! But it didnt mention anything about surface movement. In all of my tanks, I do not have any live plants actually. I have tried in my 30G but I dont think there is enough light. My plants died and I didnt want to be bother about trying to keep plants yet. I would like to try sometime. That is why I wanted to know about the rate of dissaption at the surface. I read in an articale that surface movement or water falling exchanges carbon dioxide with oxygen. That is why I dont have any airstones in my tanks.
 

R

ronrca

Guest
#29
Re: aqua babies?

Not to worry! My surface ripples quite a bit! Im made sure of that of course. I would never have it otherwise. In my 90G, I have a small power head just moving surface water around and my bio-wheels also create lots of surface movement. In my 30G and 10G, the hang on power filter creates a surface movement from the outlets. If I would have no surface movement or airstones, my fish would be dead. They are actually very happy and I dont have the annoying hum of a air pump.
 

Matt Nace

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
1,470
1
38
Pennsylvania
#30
Re: aqua babies?

I have only slight surface movenment. The filter diffusor is upside down on purpose, and shoots at angle toward the middle of the tank. That is the only thing moving my surface...and in the far corners, a small snail go move across the slight film that builds up over there., but I get an exchange, and sometimes a small whirlpool, around the outlet area, which is under water.

I have a lot of plants in my 30g, and almost all pearl. When I cut them, they all look like they are air pumps, leaving bubbles out the stems.

SO I have very, very little, but Co2 and 80 watts of light to make my plants pump out the O2. The only problem would be at night..and if I had a lot of fish, I would have a concern....but the amount of fish(6 otto and 6 SAE for now)wont deplete all the O2 at night, when the plants stop producing O2.

My tank I am very proud of, and I think almost nil for surface movement is better. Of course you need plenty of water movement under the surface, which my magnum does very well. My Co2 bubbles hit every edge of the tank. But of course, this is my opinion on what works for me.
 

R

ronrca

Guest
#31
I too have the diffuser upside down to move surface water. Ive never had a problem yet.